Car Numbers

Think this deserves a new thread so as not to send the silly season thread too off track, but something Eagle eye posted got me thinking. With so much talk of car numbers about lately, might be interesting to see other peoples opinions on it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EagleEye

Penske Racing Ran the 2, 3 in the early 90's when Newman Haas was running, 5, 6. They took 3 and 6 when the entered the IRL full time, when Menard/TG had #2.

---

Yeah 2 and 3 were the traditional numbers for Penske during the 90's. Although i'd say 6 and 11 were more traditional for Newman Haas. They only had the number 5 when Mansell went over in 1993. Then 5 became Walkers number from 94-07, along with 15 when he ran a second car.

And i dont think Kanaan should run the number 11. Vasser had the number 12 at Ganassi for all those years but then when he moved to Patrick in 2001 he switched to their number 20 (or was it 40?), then in 2002 when he went to Rahal he took their number 8.

Seems all the teams had their numbers and the only difference from season to season was that the champion had the number 1, which was Ganassi for a good few seasons!

In the late 90's and early 00's the teams generally had these numbers, and didnt move all that much.

1 - Champion
2,3 - Penske
4,12 - Ganassi
5,15 - Walker
6,11 - Newman/Haas
7,8 - Rahal (although PacWest/PWR took the number 7 for Dixon in the few races they did in 2002)
9,10 - Dont seem to remember these numbers being fixed to and specific team but they always seem to have been taken by somebody.
16 - Bettenhausen/HVM
17,18 - PacWest
19,34 - Dale Coyne
20,40 - Patrick
26,27 - Team Green, AA still has the 27 going back to 1995 when Villeneuve used it.
33,99 - Players Forsythe, Although 99 was Greg Moores number. Think he was the only driver that had claimed a number as such. Would of been interesting to see what number he used at Penske in 2000 as both Moore and Penske seemed tied into their numbers.

There were a few other teams around at the time that seemed to have numbers set, but they were the smaller teams that ive forgotten! Also i didnt really follow the IRL during that time so cant comment on what numbers were used there. All i know was that Penske used numbers in the 60's when they did Indy and those couple of races in 2001.

It was only in 95/96 that most teams started keeping 'their' numbers

In the early 90s for example, the car numbers each year generally reflected the top 12 driver positions from the previous years.

eg.. Penske were 3 & 5 in '91, 4 & 5 in '92, 4 & 12 in '93, 2 & 3 & 31 in '94, 1 & 2 in '95, 2 & 3 in '96 etc etc..

While Newman-Haas were 2 & 6 in '91, 1 & 2 in '92, 5 & 6 in '93, 1 & 6 in '94, 3 & 6 in '95, 6 & 11 in '96 etc...

Thats right - seem to remember it was when Mansell went over and Newman wanted the number 5 for him that it all changed.

Guess a few of the bigger teams still use the same numbers from year to year now. Penske 3 & 6, Ganassi 9 & 10, Panther 4. Just wish the champion would use the number 1! I know the champion team is allocated the number 1 but they choose not to use it. I know if i was a driver i would want to, as to me it will feel like i had earned it!

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar"... Sigmund Freud

"Sometimes a number is just a number"... me

Honestly I don't understand the fascination with keeping the same numbers one year to the next.

Gary

Yeah many of the CART numbers had their roots in the 1994 standings, as from 1996 they were largely frozen (from the 1995 numbers) apart from the champion. Ganassi's #4 and #12 were earned by Andretti and Gugelmin, Walker's #5 by Robby Gordon, Hogan's #9 by Bobby Rahal.

It's funny they made this change the same year as F1 sort of went the other way, as they went from fixed numbers with the reigning champion driver's team swapping to 1/2 where needed, to the current system based on the Constructors Championship standings of the year before.

I actually liked the old top 12 system as it allowed numbers to change year on year and made things a bit more interesting, the current system is too NASCAR-like. The old system allowed teams to still have traditional higher numbers tied to them, like Foyt's 14, Bettenhausen's 16, Patrick's 20, Forsythe's 33, etc.

Even in the current system I don't see why the champion doesn't use #1 when it is there available. Who was the last driver to run it full-time, Dixon in '04? I remember Michael Andretti being able to use it one year at Indy as the team had it available from Wheldon's title the year before.

Seems weird to read a thread about car numbers with no mention of AJ Foyt. I'm sure he's kept the #14 longer than anyone (active).

I am a fan of numbers being associated with teams. Sometimes there is a back story with the numbers too. Moore and his 99 was because his favourite hockey player was of course, Wayne Gretzky who wore that number.

Villeneuve when he went to Forsythe Green had the 27 because that was his Dad's last number. Foyt wouldn't be Foyt if he didn't have a 14 on the car.

I think other than one being for the champion if he wants it, let teams take their numbers as a brand. IT works in NASCAR and allows you to brand the number to the team, or to a very good driver.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

Villeneuve when he went to Forsythe Green had the 27 because that was his Dad's last number.

---

Actually i have an interview where Villeneuve says that he didn't choose #27, it was just the number that Team Green was alotted by CART in 1995 as it was considered a new team (after the split at the end of 1994 with Forsythe).

Villeneuve said Green asked him if he wanted to request a number change away from the #27, due to obvious reasons, but Villeneuve said it didn't bother him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by racer69

Actually i have an interview where Villeneuve says that he didn't choose #27, it was just the number that Team Green was alotted by CART in 1995 as it was considered a new team (after the split at the end of 1994 with Forsythe).

---

Of course, Villeneuve Sr. didn't pick that number either. Strange how 'traditions' start sometimes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

I think other than one being for the champion if he wants it, let teams take their numbers as a brand. IT works in NASCAR and allows you to brand the number to the team, or to a very good driver.....

---

On the other hand F1 never had a fixed number system and they are doing all right.
Most (all?) Indycar teams don't use numbers in their marketing. I rather think most numbers have a completely random origin. Which is also why the champion seldom uses #1. It has no meaning, it's just another random teamnumber.
In my opinion they should use the drivers (not teams) standings of last season to determine the numbers for the next. I'd say that's even better for marketing because you'd have to buy new stuff every year!

Hi,
Yeah its better to marketing coz everyone has to purchase new stuff yearly.
Thanks

Team identity with numbers is proven Stateside.

* Ganassi refuses to use #1 out of respect to the team's unfortunate stroke of tragedy after the 2003 championship season of Scott Dixon. In an early off-season test, Dixon and Ganassi driver Tony Renna tested tires for Firestone, and Renna was killed in the test. The team didn't win a single race the next season after Dixon went with the #1, so Chip decided not to use #1 after his recent titles.

* Panther's use of #4 was related to one of the partners at the team, current San Francisco 49ers head coach Jim Harbaugh, who wore #4 in his NFL and NCAA playing days except for his final year, 2001, in Charlotte; with John Kasay having #4, he wore #14 for A. J. Foyt.

* In 2000, Buddy Lazier won with the Helmegarn #91. Fans wanted the team to keep the #91.

* Foyt, of course, and #14 is identifiable.

The idea of not wearing #1 is an interesting move in recent years, but there's an identity that a car number can mean for a team, as Panther, Foyt, and even Ganassi and Penske have proven.