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Looks to me that it is now possible that ferrari blew it with the pit stop.....
Did red bull sacrifice Webber to suck in Fred?
Fred better be able to keep a gap that puts him right behind Button or better hamilton of he may end up buried in the pack :eek:
I said it on the main three. I think yes
Stephano for donkey for year??......
Turns out the answer is yes!
They were thinking that 'six tenths' can pull it off with his 'talent' thus Stella's radio communication reminding Alonso how talented he was! :rotflmao:
I am afraid that a new team manager is needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
To quote the great Michael Schumacher once.
" Your always more clever afterwards". :p
Been that way, ever since the dream team left, one really very dumb mistake after anotherQuote:
Originally Posted by F1boat
I guess it even the score, given how Massa once ran out of gas going out to qualify....then the famous Singapore "pull out" that had the fuel hose going off to race with massa, a stupid thing since ferrari already had plenty of warning about the problem and that cost massa the wdc that year.....
so here they do it again.
They should have known that both Rosberg and petrov had already pitted and would try to go to the end without pitting....and this was a track where passing was very hard.
Incompetent.
Total :rolleyes:
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
The championship is the sum of 19 races, and the actions of both team and driver decide who will win.
All the teams, and all the drivers, made mistakes this year. There's a thousand "ifs" and "buts" which could have decided the champion this year, Ferrari's poor strategy was just one of them.
Red Bull were right in keeping both of their drivers in the hunt, although most of us here thought otherwise a week ago.
Alonso/Ferrari could only try to cover off one of the Bulls, not both.
:)Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
I'm not really sure that he could have been in front of Rosberg and Petrov after his pitstop, even if he had delayed it for several laps. He wasn't much faster than them, and tyre degradation would have certainly been a problem. Yet everyone is criticising Ferrari for the strategy, while there is no way to be sure that the result would have been any better had Alonso not pitted. In the end, it would have depended a lot on how Alonso's tyres would have behaved, and it's difficult to ensure that they would have lasted enough.
Had they waited 2 more laps Alonso would have came back on track behind Webber too.Quote:
Originally Posted by N4D13
The team tried first to cover Webber with Massa however it didn't work out, so they had to do it with Webber unless they knew that they can run at least another 10 laps with competitive pace on the soft tires, and they didn't want to take that risk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
I dont think Red Bull sacrificed, webber, his right rear touched the barriers and he was checking on the status of that tyre on the radio, it was probably a precaution to change the tyre, rather then take risk for a few more laps.
if that is the case, even more of a reason to NOT pit FredQuote:
Originally Posted by i_max2k2
While Webber might have put a few hot laps in, the problem was all those backmarkers would have sooner or later hung Webber up (assuming petrov decided or was ordered to move over for Webber). The result would have been far different had FA ran much farther, just like Button, Seb, and the others did, before the pit.
And then there was Rosberg, who would not have moved over for Webber, and was clearly planing a run to the finish as Kubica, Koba, Hulkenberg, and others were trotting along for lap after lap after lap. Even if petrov moved over he would have still been stuck for lap after lap behind Hulkenberg
All things considered, the last two races decided the champisionship when Vettel stayed in front, sending the message to webber, and then the dumb pitstop, way too early in the race. Webber lost because of team managment. fred lost because of his own team's managment
Webber lost because he was dead slow.Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
Alonso lost because his team is stupid (we all knew that since 2008) and because he wasn't able to overtake a rookie driver.
Vettel won because he did everything right and there was no need for a daring strategy.
Had Alonso or Webber qualified 1st they would have had half the job done before the race started.
Bingo. And bingo again.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
I think Alonso and Ferrari were in the same unfortunate position as Webber and Red Bull. Both were off the pace and had no chance of going to the front of the field. By reacting to Webber they at least covered the driver closest to Alonso in points, and from there all they could do was hope Sebastian and Lewis had problems up front.
Things didn't work out good today for Alonso, but it would have been even worse to not change tires and get put another place down by Webber during the pit cycle.
I agree with this.^^^Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
Also... what good luck giveth, bad luck can taketh away! :D
True that :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave B
Don't disagree with that at all!Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
But, where did Webbers pace go?! After Monaco, Silverstone and a few other circuits this year where he's dominated, he has been absolutely owned in the last third of the year. How does that work?
Did you bother to reconsider that stupid thread you posted about how :"3 laps to go and Red Bull gives the championship from Webber to FA"?Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
If you bother to look at the OP of your previous stupid thread, maybe you would be a little more circumspect in posting any other stupid thread criticising any F1 team. I mean if you are going to say a heap of stupid stuff, then maybe you could identify such stupid threads with the stupid smilie as I have in the title of this post.
I'm sure RBR didn't intend it, but Alonso got sucked in and spat out last night. Well and truly.
Funny way of communicating to their drivers during the race. Domicelli asking Fernando to use the best of his talent only when they realized they're not going to get the title, probably frustrate him in the process. I can imagine Alonso thinking "what's that supposed to mean?".
Actually, it was Andrea Stella who talked to Alonso. But bashing Domenicali every time Ferrari screws up seems to be a common activity to do on one's spare time.Quote:
Originally Posted by tmx
I can't understand why Ferrari would want to cover Webber who was actually behind him. That's stupid. Why not just keep going. Maybe I'm stupid. :(
Whoever it was, it stuck me that they were afraid to upset their star driver. Compared to some teams' go-getting messages of encouragement, Ferrari seemed to be more like "look, we don't want to upset you and we know you're ever so talented, but would you mind awfully trying just a little bit harder your highness sir. Sorry to bother you". :pQuote:
Originally Posted by N4D13
Maybe they shoulda told him the guy in front seems to be faster than him. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dave B
http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/'Ashamed' Italian minister calls for di Montezemolo to resign
http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/'Ashamed' Italian minister calls for di Montezemolo to resign
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/165087/...to_resign.html
Quote:
As the fall-out from Ferrari's failure to clinch the F1 2010 Drivers' World Championship crown continues post-Abu Dhabi, an Italian minister has sensationally called for Luca di Montezemolo's head...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
You said it. Make up your mind or is your brain still spinning from seeing Webber kicked off in Brazil by his team and then freeddie kicked off by his team....Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
Or is it the strain of having to see Vettel is the one who profited and is now WDC???
:D
Last night I tried to think of a last race in the history of the WDC, where the driver leading, was called into the pits by such a stupid decision and ended up in mid pack, unable to do anything but trundle along until the end, blocked because as even FA has admitted, someone overlooked the fact that Rosberg and Petrov had already pitted and intended to run to the end on their tires.....Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbolt
and the driver in second place, (webber) was also called into the pits to be similarly stuck.
Two stupid decisions, unless they really knew that the Webber rear tire was damaged
duh..... :rolleyes:
Because they were afraid Webber with new tyres would be so fast than once Alonso pitted, he would come out behind Webber. Then Alonso wouldnt have been in position to win the title anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
Eg. Button pitting early in BrazilQuote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
I found the race very frustrating to watch, as 2 of the title contenders could not race their way toward the front of the pack. I prefer that the title is decided by racing rather than by qualifying and the luck of the draw from a 1st lap safety car. Granted, neither driver was helped by team strategy.Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
My recollection, say from the mid 1990s, is that drivers gave way to the contenders in the final race and let them go to it. In fairness usually only 2 contenders were involved, with much simpler points calculations. I do not expect the others simply to move over, but I would expect Alonso and Webber to be able to force their way by.
Two factors may be at play here IMO.
Abu Dhabi is not a classic GP layout by anyone's standards. Perhaps more thought should be given to the location of the final outing.
Current F1 cars remain plagued by the problem of overtaking. On a pedestrian circuit slower cars can keep quicker ones at bay indefinitely.
All said, Vettel certainly deserves congratulations for a superb effort.
I have absolutely no issues with Vettel winning the championship. He qualified on pole, Mark was 5th. He lead from the start, Mark was 5th behind Alonso. Vettel drove like the champion that he is, and he won the championship fair and square - I have no problems with that. No team orders were necessary. I did not see Mark kicked off in Brazil, I did not see Mark kicked off in Abu Dabhi. He simply wasn't good enough on those two days and no good complaining that there was a conspiracy or team orders - there were none.Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
AS it turned out, Ferrari made a stupid tactical move to bring Fernando early for tyres; too bad.
But anyone that begrudges Vettel his championship has rocks in their head.
Webber and Alonso were called in by the stupidest pit crews imaginable. It was a dumb move, and I can't think of any logical nor mathematical explanation for it. In the final analysis, Webber didn't lose the championship - when he qualified 5th, and then ran 5th from the start, he was gone. That Ferrari should make a dumbass move to kill Fernando's chances was just plain stupid. All he had to do was continue to trundle along behind the two McLarens and the championship was his. What the hell??Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
OK! I'll bite - where did Webber come out after he pitted? and how many cars were there between him and the championship win? He was finished - gone, buried and cremated behind cars that were slower than Vettel and the two McLarens. He wasn't going to make up time on the leaders - he was going backwards :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
Roberto Calderoli, what a man. This is what he said after the World Cup in 2006:Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbolt
http://www.ilgiornale.it/interni/cal...e=0-comments=1
Quella di Berlino è una vittoria della nostra identità, dove una squadra che ha schierato lombardi, campani, veneti o calabresi, ha vinto contro una squadra che ha perso, immolando per il risultato la propria identità, schierando negri, islamici e comunist
He complained about Italy lining up to play a French team full of "Niggers, Islamists and Communists" (his words not mine).
His opinion counts for a lot doesn't it? It would be like Nick Griffin telling Lewis Hamilton to leave the UK. Basically, Mr Calderoli's opinion is toxic, and he should be held up for the idiot he is.
The call for di Montezemolo to resign is a stupid call by a stupid person.
But we weren't talking about a situation where the drivers were equal on points and winner takes all. If all the non-contenders had let Alonso go, that would have given the title to Alonso.Quote:
Originally Posted by D28
Certainly Renault would be asking questions of Petrov - and probably showing him the door, if he had done.
Whereas they should have been thinking about how fast Alonso was relative to Alguersuari and Petrov (who held up Webber or would have done so), rather than how fast Webber might have been on the new tyres. Easy in hindsight of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker