...do you think he would have overtaken Alonso?
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...do you think he would have overtaken Alonso?
No, the Hungaroring is a track completely unsuitable for overtaking, Barrichello needed a three second a lap advantage to blow his way by Michael Schumacher (and even then it took a few laps). The Red Bull might have been the class of the field but it never had enough of an advantage to pass the Ferrari. It would have taken a mistake by Fernando Alonso for anyone to have passed him.
Not really.Quote:
Originally Posted by X-ecutioner
No
Ooh, a "what if". I'd go for no, you just can't get close enough to pass.
:s ailor: He wasn't. He didn't. And Fred picked up 14 points on him :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by X-ecutioner
Not today.
Impossible to say.
Well, Hamilton overtook Petrov after the first couple of laps, with a pretty good maneuver on the outside, although I admit the Renault was a bit out of shape coming out of the corner.Quote:
Originally Posted by VkmSpouge
Vettel's pole time was 1.2 seconds faster than Alonso's, and Hamilton's time was 0.8 seconds faster during qualifying. So, I would say the Renault was closer to the Mclaren performance wise this weekend. So, if Hamilton could make it stick, Vettel probably could have as well if he was braver, especially since the Red Bull has such good cornering grip.
However, Hungaroring is probably the worst track to talk about any possibility of overtaking.
I reckon he at least would have been able to try a couple of times, unlike Vettel who was never in the frame. The kid is surely fast according to the lap times, but he's no real fighter.. He's too mistake-prone , not wise enough and Webbo clearly knows that as we could see in the post race press conference. ;)
It's not that Vettel was being cautious behind Alonso , he just couldn't do it.... :)
Well, my question wasn't about what you think it is. It's about racecraft, and about Hamilton "probably" having better overtaking skills than both Vettel and Fred combined. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazio
:s ailor: You forgot to mention Kimi :kiss: :love:Quote:
Originally Posted by X-ecutioner
Probably it would have been too tough for Hamilton as well, since it's a combination of Hungaroring and Alonso's defensive driving in that Ferrari. Still, probably he would have timed and planned the overtaking better than Vettel, and probably gone for a banzai move.Quote:
Originally Posted by Volky34
Should I mention Kimi's name in all of my posts from now on if it provides some sort of satisfaction for you? Use the search option. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazio
Sorry, why are we wasting time on such a daft hypothetical question?
Ok then, if Hakkinen was driving for Mercedes instead of Schumacher, would he have pushed Barrichello towards the pitwall? If Eddie Jordan was running Red Bull would they have pitted Webber on the same lap as Vettel? If a giant mutant wasp landed on the circuit and flew off with Massa's car, would they red flag the race?
Nothing daft.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Brockman
Another example of Vettel's racecraft called into question
not on this track, but hamilton would have shown some attempts at a pass to put FA on the defensive so as to possibly cause a mistake.
Vettel never tried.
But in the absence of a mistake for FA, the answer is not on this track, no more than webber would have passed FA when webber was behind fred
Besides vettel was still trying to figure out about the drive through rather than to worry over passing Fred
I dont think so.
Maybe on this day he reasoned that 3rd was better than crashing. A driver in a different championship position may have had different reasoning. Impossible to tell.Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
My point is that while Vettel is a very fast driver, he's not very good at overtaking, and somebody else in the same car probably would have done a better job. No need to get your panties in a bunch. Half of the forum threads are based on hypothetical questions, especially during the off season. If you don't wanna discuss on this thread, you have plenty of other threads on this forum to "waste" your time with. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Brockman
If the mods think this thread is stupid, they may very well delete it.
When he tried to pass in Turkey and things went wrong people around here rubbished him because he was not thinking about the championship.Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
Today he did think about it and decided that 3rd place is better than nothing, so the same people will criticize him again.
Is this a case of double measures or what?!
If Hamilton was in the Red Bull, the championship would be wrapped up by now.
It looked to me that today the only one good at overtaking was Rubens, so what would have Rubens done if he was in any of the other 24 cars on the grid?!Quote:
Originally Posted by X-ecutioner
If Hamilton was half a foot taller and was a half-brother of Kimi and they together part-owned a Formula Renault team that hired a close relative of Alonso's, would that make it more difficult for Trulli to pass Vettel around the back half of Spa in a few weeks if the weather forecast said it would rain but it had strangely turned out to be sunny?
I love hypotheticals. They're so useful.
If they deleted threads purely on the basis of being stupid, we wouldn't have much to talk about :pQuote:
Originally Posted by X-ecutioner
When he loses the championship at the end of the year by 3 points, he's gonna kick himself about today, and how he wasn't brave enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
True.Quote:
Originally Posted by skc
In that Red Bull, Rubens probably would have overtaken Alonso. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by ioan
So is your post in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ent
Imagine how fun this forum would be if we only talked about qualifying and race results. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Brockman
Looks to me that it bothers you more then it bothers him. :\Quote:
Originally Posted by X-ecutioner
The probability being 1%.Quote:
Originally Posted by X-ecutioner
Yet I'm the one with the "I don't care" smile on my face, and Vettel on the podium looked like somebody stole his box of candies. SURE it didn't bother him. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Whatever you want us to believe, it is obvious that you are bothered.Quote:
Originally Posted by X-ecutioner
its hard to say, except that LH would have given it a go. if there is one thing he can do is be a daring overtaker. Unfortunately that is only 50% of the equation. The other being, would Alonso let him pass? I don;t think those two have had a proper joust on somewhat equal machinery for critical podium slots. Alonso in a renault the past 2 years was not a fair fight. It would be interesting to see if Alonso would stomach a pure pass from LH or have the whole thing end up in tears. Alonso is normally a fair driver in being passed, bu when it comes to LH, his perceived nemesis, all bets are off.
kimi was also a somewhat daring overtaker. I'd say he would have given it a shot as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by Tazio
you could have simply not read the thread and posted. I do that now and then in topics that I think are useless. :|Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Brockman
lol,Quote:
Originally Posted by skc
probably, along with the 7 pole positions.
Vettel is still young though and there is no doubt he is quick, but is he going to become another Massa? Because I see a guy who can run away with races once in the lead but struggles to show that same form when asked to work his way to a victory. That's the difference between him and the 2 best on the grid Alonso and LH.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
correction
Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
I don't think it is possible to overtake unless you have a 2sec advantage.
Whatever floats your raft.Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
Oh I love these inane games, even though I don't understand how it's really played. Am I winning? :hmph: :erm:Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
I'd say it's a pretty good bet that if Montoya was in the RB he would have tried overtaking Fred and either would succeed, have several offs, and not quit trying until his engine expired :DQuote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
Don't know, you'll have to ask your fellow players.Quote:
Originally Posted by X-ecutioner
No, because its the Hungaroring, the Ferrari is faster on the streights and Alonso is one of the best defenders in the pitlane.
At many other tracks it might be a different matter but here it was never going to happen.