There were 2 new front wings which Red Bull brought for Webber and Vettel.
Vettel's fell off in practice.
So what did RBR do?
Gave him Webber's wing.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85175
Hmm...
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There were 2 new front wings which Red Bull brought for Webber and Vettel.
Vettel's fell off in practice.
So what did RBR do?
Gave him Webber's wing.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85175
Hmm...
:laugh:
Red Bull is playing favorites.
Chassis, front wing, what's next?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY
Bitches! :dog: :dork:
I can't help but feel that if the situation was reversed RBR's response to Webber would be tough luck!
It was clear after Turkey that Webbo will not score either polls or wins. Pity.
I hope for Webber's sake that he can win this race ( if Hamilton can't) just ruffle the feathers of the RBR Vettel team. This is clearly a case of a driver performing in-spite of his team. Earlier in the week he proclaimed the Button/Hamilton partnership will end in tears. But from what I've seen I believe this whole RBR situation will end badly, very badly and I can see Webber leaving to Renault or Williams at the end of the year.Quote:
Originally Posted by F1boat
yeah, but if that one imitates its dirty little sister and falls off in the race.....I am certain Webber will in tears...
If i were vettle, I am not so sure I would be wanting it, unless it simply failed because some nut was not screwed
maybe next they will give webber's woman to vettel....
I´m not sure it was seb asking for it.
So Vettel has joined the club of Schumacher, Alonso and Hamilton of being favoured - how honorable. :) I guess almost any team has had situations, where they have had only one certain new car part and they give it to the so-called lead driver. The circumstances have put RBR into a bit of an embarrassing situation in this case, but after a bit of thinking there shouldn't be anything surprising about their action. Although if I was Horner, I'm not sure I would have rushed to give a new wing to the lead driver after it has already failed and the cause hasn't been properly examined.
If there were two races left and Vettel had a better chance to win the championship, then he should be favored. But there are 10 races left to go and they are separated by only 12 points, so there's no excuse for taking Webber's wing if the drivers are truly treated equally. I don't have a problem with Red Bull favoring Vettel (they're free to run the team as they see fit), but I have a problem with them lying about it and re-signing Webber with the promise that he will be treated equally.
Though there's a significant difference between the endplates there was nothing inbetween them in Q1, Vettel had 0.3s advantage in Q2, and Webbo was beaten by over a tenth for pole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY
Even if it is true....so what?
You should only expect Red Bull Racing to do what they think is best for Red Bull Racing.
To think otherwise is just silly.
First they blame Webber for his teammate running into him in Turkey (not to mention that they told Webber to turn his engine down and Vettel to turn his up).
Then they give Webber a chasis that they said was so broken that it caused Vettel to be beaten by Webber.
Now they take new parts off Webber's car and give them to Vettel.
To top it all off they maintain that there are no team orders and that everything is just peachy. Red Bull need to go and talk to McLaren about how to be sublte about having a no. 1 driver because right now Red Bull are about as subtle as a turd in a punchbowl.
We know that Red Bull Racing are biased towards Vettel and that they are liars about it. Horner is a real slime-ball - but this is not new to f1.
This sort of thing has always happened from engine manufacturers such as Cosworth in past days providing better engines to the number 1 driver in teams to Ferrari dictates.
This is a sport but it is the right of a team to do as it pleases.
The difference is that in the old days if it was found out it was admitted or if blatantly done such as this wing fiasco, it was not denied - does the RBR management really think that fans are THAT gullible?
I dont like what they have done to Webber but they have their reasons and knowing Webber this is going to make him even more determined than ever.
Anyone imagining that there is not a "situation" at RBR is not up to speed. Turkey will be the order of the day.
Hopefully any blatant action by the team during the race, including trying to mess with his engine mapping will be caught by Pilbeam - a good guy for Webber to have in his side.
RBR can learn from the Whitmarsh run Mclaren team. The prevention of any friction between drivers is enabled BEFORE the season begins with the co-operation of the drivers. Now it is too late.
When has alienating a driver such as Webber ever been in a team's rational self-interest?Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
You ever hear of Ferrari, McLaren or Williams. They made F-1 history and won championships by alienating drivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Devote
They have never alienated drivers against the team, especially in the middle of a season where neither driver is dominant.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
There have been situations where drivers have become alienated from each other, but the team has stepped in to try and control it - but not always successfully.
But regardless, my question relates to an objective action and there is only one proper answer - acting irrationally is not the way to go.
"Red Bull takes your wings!"
Wait till the pit stop when they can't find the nut for Webbo's car. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Hawkmoon
This is reprehensible: "Red Bull has been forced to defend its decision to remove a new front wing from Mark Webber's car and hand it to team-mate Sebastian Vettel for qualifying for the British Grand Prix."
After Vettel took pole position, Webber was left visibly annoyed in the post-session press conference - and cheekily suggested that at least the team would be 'happy' with the result today.
Horner moved quickly, however, to defend the decision – saying that he felt the outfit had a duty to hand the wing to the driver who was leading the championship. He also suggested that there was no lap time difference between the two designs.
I suppose this is the end of Webbo's challenge for the title this year.
Never become defeatist! This is just the end of the beginning! [thanks Winnie]Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
There is nobody tougher out there and Vettel must now realize that instead of securing a teammate he has gained a stronger and more determined opponent.
Believe me, I have been in battle situations that have look somewhat bleak - but you NEVER even THINK negatively. You just go on and push and win.
Webber has to enter the Mansell mind set - prepared to die to win.
He will be racing in front of a crowd that will appreciate and let him know when he is driving like Nige.
The British crowd dislike something unfair and I am sure they will be cheering for Webber tomorrow as much as for Jense and Lewis.
Webber must approach this as a war and act regardless of consequences even if it means crashing into Vettel by not giving in.
If he acts like in Turkey he will win, if he acts like Malaysia then it is over and he will deserve to lose.
He must be Senna, he must be Mansell, he must be Schumacher tomorrow. No prisoners. Just DO IT! He must destroy Vettel mentally tomorrow.
Well, if Webber is going to do anything this season, he'll have to do it on his own. Time Switch the brain on again like he did in Spain and Monaco, cut out the silly errors from trying too hard, and try to simply outrace Vettel. Seems the only way the team will support him is if he gets far enough in front of his teammate that they are forced to put support him or risk losing the championship.
Hear ! Hear! Give that man a scotch! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Ent
Sure, but in that case, they should be open about it. The hypocrisy is what's really annoying.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
I am just facing the reality of Red Bull's favoritism towards Vettel. My own thoughts on his dilema was that it was one of his own making when he re-signed with Red Bull just after Turkey, and by doing so, he sealed his fate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ent
Webber will discover that there are more ways in heaven and on earth to give Vettel a more equal car than his own than is dreamt of in his philosophy.
Do you know why I respect Todt so much. He was unapologetic about how the teams are in Ferrari. Ron Dennis and now Horner sugarcoat things. At least, Todt was brutal, but honest.
I total agree with you. Mclaren "save fuell". Todt response "move out of your way for Schumacher!!!! At least be honest. All the teams do the same but only Ferrari (days of schumacher) they have the guts to tell it the way it is, the truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by F1boat
Mark Webber hardly needs any more motivation, but his team have just handed some to him. Vettel's always been the favoured driver at Red Bull so no big news there, but their problem has been that Mark's matching his team-mate.
I just hope Mark Webber beats his team-mate, with or without a new front wing.
Mansell and his engineer David Brown did their best efforts to alienate Patrese about how to set the active suspension on the FW14/14B; Piquet couldn't instigate team order he and his engineer played similar games with Mansell in the mid-80s and Honda allegedly favoured Piquet over Mansell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Devote
Prost tried to 'alienate' Senna with a gentleman's agreement with who should win the race from the first corner but then when Senna could beat him it was Prost who felt alienated because he was adamant Honda was favouring Senna
Just watched an interview between James Allen and Mark Webber on the Australian pre-race show and, i'm paraphrasing a little here to shorten it down, but Webber's version of events basically went along the lines of:
"There probably isn't a lot between the two wings but we don't know for sure because we where still evaluation them, but basically Seb smashed his front wing during practice so they took the wing from my car, but i'm happy with my crew, they have done a really good job getting the car set up well for the race and look the other side of the garage took most of that work as well for Seb's car but thats life"
Sort of confirms those rumors we heard not that long ago that Seb is actually fairly useless at setting the car up and RBR are only really interested in keeping Mark around because he is a "team man" which is Austrian translation for "good at setting up the car for the lead driver"
I noticed that. Haven't heard reports of Webber's side using Vettel's set-ups at all..Quote:
Originally Posted by RJL25
If this sort of thing continues next year i'm pretty sure Webber will think "I don't need this ****" and walk away from RBR, and he is the sort of person that if that means he doesn't get a drive for 2012, then so be it, he'll just retire.
my first thought after seeing the first lap - RBR, hahahahahahahahahahahahhahAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHhHAHAHA HHahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahhahhahahhaha!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well said! :-) :-DQuote:
Originally Posted by RJL25
last place right now
Seems Hamilton has defended Webber's virginity and given Vettel a quickie....
and alonso did the same for his team mate as well
Justice!
What? No calling Vettel a chopper for driving straight at Webber off the start? oooh... double standards! ;) :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJL25
What??? That was pretty worthless chop, unworthy of any title recognition as the Vestell Virgin could not get it in........
No doubt Brutus will be sending Hamilton some flowers for his little love tap
:D My thought was: karma!Quote:
Originally Posted by RJL25
Nah!! it was Valve Bounce, who put his Malacca hex on Vettel just before the start. If you don't believe, ask jens, because he was there at the chat.Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly