Could the mods please organise a poll on who was at fault: Vettel or Webber. Thanks.
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Could the mods please organise a poll on who was at fault: Vettel or Webber. Thanks.
mark was at fault for going for the 3rd win 3 wins in a row would make Vettel look 2nd rate
4Q Vettel
poll not necessary
, just ask how many brits are here and how many posters like germans?
Answer will be the same...
For your information, Mark Webber has absolutely nothing to do with Brits.Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
what a stupid comment, Webber isn't brittish, he is Australian, the brits and the aussies have a very long standing sporting rivalry that dates pre-dates even the rivalry between the brits and the germans. Yes the Australia/Brittish rivalry is far more good natured then the sometimes acromonious relationship between the Germans and the Brits but all the same the Brits are hardly queing up around the corner to support an Aussie!
a 3 year old could see that it was 100% Vettel's fault... SHEESH!
Fact. My four year old said; "he's not allowed to do that Daddy!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevincal
Oh and BTW Nationality has bugger all to do with it. When Mark has cocked up most of the same people defending him now (including me) have been fairly open in ripping him a new one.
I think the sooner this happens the better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
good to know your son has a good understanding of the sport already :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic
and I too blame Vettel, but put none of that down to the fact that he is german. I've been ciritical of mark in the past when he has done something wrong (australia this year) and critical of my countrymen at times, as well as vettel when he's got it wrong, like everybody. nationality has bugger all to do with it. :)
Following in Daddy Sonic's wheeltracks! :D He won his first "race" last month - so proud. LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateDanGTR
This is pointless. Most of you guys were in agreement that all was hunky dory when Lewis Hamilton cut that chicane in Spa in 2007. So to say that a majority agreement means something is complete bullpoop
Are you against what the majority opinion might be, or are you just interested in ioan's and your own opinion?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
No, I'm simply pointing out that the way the majority see things is not necessarily the correct view.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
By the same token, neither is ioan's and yours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
and? Next you're going to shock me by telling me that the sun rises in the east and sets in the West!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
No! I'm just telling you that just because both you and ioan had posted a large number of posts blaming Webber does not mean that other forum members' opinions don't count.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
I didn't say that your opinions don't count, I said that simply because they're the majority doesn't mean that they're right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
No it doesn't. But it does indicate the view of the majority of the forum members here. Are you against that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Webber squeezed him but within the rules, Seb turned a little right too soon. The fault lies really with the team for trying to get Seb to win and not Mark. Webber not guilty in my view.
Some existing polls:
NobleF1[Autosport editor] Here are your poll results for the Turkey crash: Vettel to blame: 79.45%. Webber to blame: 8.8%. Racing incident: 11.75%
James Allen's site's not loading for me but he has a similar result, with 80% blaming Vettel.
A cursory glance through the Turkey and Donkey threads seems to yield similar percentages, with only a handful of people blaming Mark, almost everybody blaming Vettel, and a few inbetweeners saying racing incident.
I feel a further poll would be redundant.
Poll! I want to know a percentage of what the readers of this specific forum think, out of curiousity.
So do I; as against the number of posts (most by two guys here) blaming one or the other. Certain people believe that if they keep posting to assert their view and that the opposing view of anyone else is wrong is the way to prove who is right and who is wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by theugsquirrel
Then when you try to get the general consensus, one even suggests that it is "bullpoop".
funny that...Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
Are you spoiling for a fight or something? :confused: I clearly have said NO many times. Give it a break.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
it did come from redbullsQuote:
Originally Posted by AJP
In the absence of a poll, what say we simply post "Vettel's fault", "Webber's fault", or "50/50". I'm sure we can all count.
Vettel's fault. :)
Funny that you take my comments out of context. All I am saying by citing examples from the past is that the majority is not always right. I mean ffs a majority of people in the US voted that moron Dubya in. Are you going to say they were right? I'm not against people having opinions, I'm merely against the idea that because the majority agree one something that they're somehow proven right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
TBH the only driver (ex or current) I've heard defending Seb's actions has been the Vet himself. I've yet to heard from anyone who has gone wheel to wheel with someone on a track support Vettel's action - and I doubt I will. Wheels interlocked at 200mph you simply Do NOT move over. Fact.
And I say again: we just want to know the general consensus. There is nothing said so far that the general consensus is correct, or wrong. But to say it is bullpoop is extraordinarily dictatorial. It simply means one does not care what other people's opinions are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
For the record, I think it is Vettel's fault.
Well there's Helmut Marko.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic
Over simplistic view from kool aid overdose???Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
I must admit, that I ran out of the good stuff and just got plain dumbutt lazy, and thought I would try out some red bull piss sunday
I had refused for several years to even look at a can of it, after they paid good money and took my hero, Snotnot Speeed and his pink toenails, and put him to driving not cars, but trucks, in nascar....where those pissers are still paying him to drive
In any event, as to the poll, it does not matter what posters think, drivers think, or anyone else--even Seb
The only ones who have a vote that really count are not Mark, but Marko Hellnot and his crew of Austrians-not Australians--and they already voted, so it seems.......
Indeed, after mixing a batch of the good stuff, :beer: , I see a new chassis for Webbo, painted in the classic red bull colors, looks like a large truck......
.and Webbo's new team mate...scot
I'll give you ONE more chance before I report you for trolling :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
I SAY again that I have no problem with people voicing their opinions, I merely feel that even if 80% of people say Webber is at fault I don't feel that this proves anything to the point where you can label it as fact.
Like I said, continue with this rubbish that I'm trying to say that people can't have their opinion and I'm not going to react, I'm going to report you.
I think they both had fault in the incident, Vettel for his slight nudge across into Webbers path and also Webber for not seeing the upcoming danger against his teammate and just moving slighty wider to allow for any mistakes into the next corner.
So I am on the fence :D
50/50
Vettel put himself in danger by diving low in the first place, where there was no room. Mark didn't move over when Vettel got alongside him because they were racing for the lead! And of course Mark had no idea Vettel would turn directly into him so far before the turn... I'm sure Mark was expecting Vettel to hold his line and try to outbrake him.
An opinion is an opinion and is accepted as such. The problem is that so many people think it was Sebs fault that it suggests the majority may be correct. Then we see the footage which shows Seb crashing into Mark.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
And it's not just us armchair experts either.
In fact, apart from the Red Bull Management, it's only Eddie Jordan that seems to think Seb was in the right.Quote:
"Where should Mark have gone?" Lewis Hamilton - who had a box-seat view of the incident that unfolded in front of him - told German television Sky. "I think the gap he left him was big enough. Even though Jenson and I both want to win, we also have respect for each other. I'm really happy that I have such a good relationship with my teammate."
Said Mercedes' Nico Rosberg: "Mark didn't move at all. For me, it was clearly Sebastian's fault."
Niki Lauda said the 22-year-old had been "much too aggressive", and former driver Alex Wurz noted in Turkey: "All my racing colleagues are in agreement that it was Vettel's fault."
Vettel and the scum pulling the strings at RBR are to blame.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
I actually agree that a poll proves nothing. If 80% agree that Vettel was at fault it doen't make it a fact. It simple makes it a fact that 20% of the people on that poll have very twisted logic, and/or bias against Webber. :D
What sporting regulation did Webber violate?
Helmut Marko and the whole Red Bull team has to protect their investment, the chosen one, the golden boy, the wunderkid, the next Schumi. This accident has exposed how obvious it is that he is nr.1 guy in that team.Quote:
Originally Posted by skc
Perfect explanation of the situation in the following link.
http://www.autosport.com/features/article.php/id/2842
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84073Quote:
In Turkey, a lot of things didn't add up to a level playing, no matter what the team might say. Afterwards, Helmut Marko, Mateschitz's eyes and ears in the team, came down squarely on Vettel's side and it was obvious from the body language of the major players in the team that Webber was not flavour of the month. Which was odd considering the accident itself was solely Vettel's fault.
Making it as obvious as possible without actually saying it, that vettel was to blame.Quote:
When asked for his opinion on the Red Bull Racing accident, Goss said: "I've only read that neither driver says they are to blame. There is some good footage of the incident, and you just have to look at it and make your own mind up. But I think Vettel had enough room on the track."
Here are some pictures for you.
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/7280/fghgf.jpg
You know, it is getting quite laughable that some people are still saying this is not 100% vettels fault. Show some objectivity. I know your ego is not letting you backtrack on your comments, but some people are really looking quite silly.
That's ALL I've been trying to say. Nothing more nothing less.Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
Exactly what I said in my first post and all I've tried to say throughout this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
How or why does a Hamilton incident have anything at all to do with this incident?
You claim you simply want people to "agree to disagree" but what you are actually implying over and over is that the 80% is wrong and you are right. Then you wonder why people oppose that view.
I've been much more critical of Mark than Sebastian, and at times I think he has been a dirty driver. Same with many drivers. BUT I try to be objective and look at any incident on an individual basis. Based on this incident and the sporting regulations, Sebastian caused a collosion, which could have been investigated by the stewards. (why they never investigate inter-team violations is beyond me and a long subject) But Mark did absolutely nothing illegal that I can find in any regulation.
You don't want a poll, that's fine. Valve does want a poll. If you are suggesting everyone has a right to their own opinion you should have no problem with Valve requesting a poll.
Or should we have a non official poll considering whether Valve has the right to exercise his opinion and request a poll? ;)