Can anyone beat Loeb

Can anyone beat Loeb this year, he seams not to make silly mistakes until the pressure is off, but every one else seems to be under full pressure when points are all level.
For me this year its going to pan out like this Loeb, Solberg then hirvonen.

Hopefully when the new cars come out there will be more contenders as its by far the the best 4 wheeled motorsport to watch and get pictures for.

I dont mind Loeb but would like to see it contested i no that it went to the last race last year but it did not feel like it, with the massive win rate Loeb started to run away with. It was only mistakes that kept other people close.

only latvala in some events and hirvonen in finland maybe... but to lose the championship Loeb must make mistakes. Speedwise currently he beats them all like dogs with sick owners.

And then we have the finish rautenbach.....

he beats them all like dogs with sick owners.



Thats for sure hirvonen silly mistake has made it even harder for him, i also think this slow down for track position for the next day is a bit rubbish.
It would be nice to change it from stage to stage then every one would push all the way home and thats what we want to see, as its not F1 and we dont need all that rubbish even F1 are changing it.

Perhaps he can take a vacation untill later in the year, comeback and still be champion.

Loeb can win everywhere and anywhere, any surface...

He is the greatest WRC driver.

now with the retirement from Jordan i expect Hirvonen to be even more cautious....you would expect that from a country that produced drivers like Makinen Alen Toivonen and even gronholm the new breed would be just like them but i guess the managers nowadays over there at lake city need more Kimis and less latvalas so its good.

I doubt that in Turkey Hirvonen will use more than 1st gear just out of seer terror.

Latvala is a good rally driver, better than kimi kid.

Don't be so negative about Mikko, he is a good driver and he will be pushing hard for the win in Turkey.

Can't believe some of the hype being spouted, he's already been beaten this season. If it wasn't for others protecting their Citroen contracts / leased cars he may well have been beaten twice more. Seb L is extremely good, unfortunately the Focus has always been an inferior car so Mikko and J- MLhave to drive much harder to compete with him in any given situation.
Roll on the prevention of sweeper tactics rules.

he can be beaten when he is not driving a c4 the only car he knows best :s mokin:

hmmm what about the xsara ?

If you put Loeb in the same car as the rest... He'll be in top 3... It's stupid to think that he is that much better.. But .. as it is now.. Very good driver in the best car and best team... nobody can beat him....
But... Let's see... maybe..

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Originally Posted by Mintexmemory

Can't believe some of the hype being spouted, he's already been beaten this season. If it wasn't for others protecting their Citroen contracts / leased cars he may well have been beaten twice more. Seb L is extremely good, unfortunately the Focus has always been an inferior car so Mikko and J- MLhave to drive much harder to compete with him in any given situation.
Roll on the prevention of sweeper tactics rules.

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What about when he drove the Xsara WRC?? Seriously your made up excuses just make me laugh out of my butt.

the xsara was also the best car at it's time...

name a champion in the history of WRC that didn't drive the best car at the time....

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

name a champion in the history of WRC that didn't drive the best car at the time....

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2003

no...

any other ? no

case closed...

:eek:
Sorry.. No other mr, knowitall... maybe 1995..

exactly

Anyway.. It's good to see you admit that loeb is in the best car.. So... Put him in a Focus or Sub.. and let's see what happends.. ;)

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Originally Posted by JFL

Anyway.. It's good to see you admit that loeb is in the best car.. So... Put him in a Focus or Sub.. and let's see what happends.. ;)

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Fail.....

Loeb, in his first WRC event was already on the pace with fastest guys, and the Xsara WRC wasn't the top car at that time. I believe it was in Sanremo, he was on the pace with the best drivers (Colin Mcrae, Carloz Sainz, Delecour, etc....). I believe that if he was driving a Xsara WRC this year he woukd still be able to beat Mikko, just like he won over Marcus.

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Originally Posted by Francis44

Fail.....

Loeb, in his first WRC event was already on the pace with fastest guys, and the Xsara WRC wasn't the top car at that time. I believe it was in Sanremo, he was on the pace with the best drivers (Colin Mcrae, Carloz Sainz, Delecour, etc....). I believe that if he was driving a Xsara WRC this year he woukd still be able to beat Mikko, just like he won over Marcus.

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In his defence...

The Xsara was overly developed on tarmac, and it was quick on the go in Catalunya 2001, with Puras and Bugalski (other teams even protested against their speed). Loeb was more or less a product from Citroën in the making, so even as early as 2001, he was comfortable within the team. Putting Sainz, McRae and Delecour as an example is a bit unlucky, since the Focus 01 on Pirelli tyres wasn't the most competitive package on tarmac. Of course, this doesn't change the fact that it was a fabulous debut drive for Loeb at Citroën, even catching up with asphalt ace Panizzi for much of the rally.

I just doubt that Loeb ever had a hard time at Citroën, and that over the years, the cars have been increasingly customised to his likening. And well, judging from recent years, Citroën's pretty much a one man team. Loeb is a remarkable driver, best of it's time, but there are other aspects to consider why he has such a huge record, and it ain't all talent.

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Originally Posted by Josti

In his defence...

The Xsara was overly developed on tarmac, and it was quick on the go in Catalunya 2001, with Puras and Bugalski (other teams even protested against their speed). Loeb was more or less a product from Citroën in the making, so even as early as 2001, he was comfortable within the team. Putting Sainz, McRae and Delecour as an example is a bit unlucky, since the Focus 01 on Pirelli tyres wasn't the most competitive package on tarmac. Of course, this doesn't change the fact that it was a fabulous debut drive for Loeb at Citroën, even catching up with asphalt ace Panizzi for much of the rally.

I just doubt that Loeb ever had a hard time at Citroën, and that over the years, the cars have been increasingly customised to his likening. And well, judging from recent years, Citroën's pretty much a one man team. Loeb is a remarkable driver, best of it's time, but there are other aspects to consider why he has such a huge record, and it ain't all talent.

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But you could also ask the question of why the Xsara and C4 have become so much better then the Focuses and Imprezas?

Perhaps Loeb is the difference? That he has done a better job with giving feedback to the engineers or perhaps its thanks to his
driving skill and skill in setting up the car that the Citroens have been better then its opponents?

I don't think that it matters if Loeb is in the best car, any idiot can see that he's a pretty special driver. Let's remember that he has driven with 2 of the all time greats in his team, and thoroughly beaten a lot of other top quality drivers. His record may not have looked so good if he'd been around in the late '90s but it would still have been pretty impressive.

Lets hope the new Ford is better than the rest, then we may see loeb win in a not as good car, but with all the top rally cars Loeb and Citroen are putting out, you would say they have the edge before the racing starts.

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Originally Posted by JFL

Anyway.. It's good to see you admit that loeb is in the best car.. So... Put him in a Focus or Sub.. and let's see what happends.. ;)

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he will be a winner again and again and again and again....

with Ifs and Buts you can build whole empires....what stays in history are the facts....

You can like or hate a driver or car ....... but still respect the guy's for their talent !!
Put Loeb in the same car as the rest ....... he will still be a winner like today :)
Did Citroën have the best car or even bether than the Focus in 2006 ?
For sure on tarmac , but not all other surfaces where the Focus was sometimes better than the older Xsara .
Loeb can win everywhere and anywhere and any surface.......that's a fact !
But this is just my thought ;)

I hope that ford guys will fail..

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Originally Posted by Francis44

What about when he drove the Xsara WRC?? Seriously your made up excuses just make me laugh out of my butt.

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And god knows you must have a pretty big butt since it appears you want to talk out of it too :p
The Xsara was also better developed at that stage than the Focus then!
I am not making excuses for anyone or anything, merely stating what others have said - A great driver in the best team with the best car in a series that suits his strengths.

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Originally Posted by Barreis

I hope that ford guys will fail..

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nice straight forward reaction but i would prefer if you used some better and more poetic words for it ...like...

I live to see the demise of the ford guys

or even

i will feed on ford tears after this year too...

put some poetry into your life and you will gain respect in here like myself.

Best car, best car... For his first full season, his team mates was Carlos Sainz and Colin McRae. And what? He beat them.
to say "Loeb win because he has always been the best car" is an insult for Sordo, Duval, McRae and Sainz.

Wow some people can be dense. I remember through his career Loeb has always been criticised by the Scandinavians always looking for excuses as to why he whipped their boys:

First it was Xsara being the best - then he dominated in C4
Then he was only really a tarmac driver - then he won Sweden and Finland
Then it was the differentials - he still won
Then it was Michelin 'special' tyres Citroen had - he won on Pirellis
Then it was...well who knows.

Some people need to face facts. He's the best driver of his generation by a long, long way and arguably the best ever (not just in terms of pure statistics).

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Originally Posted by I am evil Homer

Wow some people can be dense. I remember through his career Loeb has always been criticised by the Scandinavians always looking for excuses as to why he whipped their boys:

First it was Xsara being the best - then he dominated in C4
Then he was only really a tarmac driver - then he won Sweden and Finland
Then it was the differentials - he still won
Then it was Michelin 'special' tyres Citroen had - he won on Pirellis
Then it was...well who knows.

Some people need to face facts. He's the best driver of his generation by a long, long way and arguably the best ever (not just in terms of pure statistics).

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Yes, absolutely, but that's far too simple for some people to accept. There must be some other reason......

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Originally Posted by I am evil Homer

Wow some people can be dense. I remember through his career Loeb has always been criticised by the Scandinavians always looking for excuses as to why he whipped their boys:

First it was Xsara being the best - then he dominated in C4
Then he was only really a tarmac driver - then he won Sweden and Finland
Then it was the differentials - he still won
Then it was Michelin 'special' tyres Citroen had - he won on Pirellis
Then it was...well who knows.

Some people need to face facts. He's the best driver of his generation by a long, long way and arguably the best ever (not just in terms of pure statistics).

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well i feel great sympathy for the finish managers...i think we need a memorial for them and their talents....i mean they work hard night and day paying the teams to manage and get a seat for their youngsters and here comes this french kid who starts rallying at the age of 21 and kidnaps their dogs out of their back yard...i would be furious too, so they come up with all these best car, best tyres best man in law and best hairstyle to cover their lack of skills in spotting talents.

the only thing i don;t like about Loeb is his modesty and sportmanship i would prefer him to be an arrogant knowit all person like myself and ridicule all these "successors", jump on his rivals cars every time he won and laugh loudly at their faces. but i guess none can be as sad as myself and that unfortunatelly makes the sport less humourus.

In every champion you can spot weakness and make a million excuses to diminish him. But nobody bothers with LOSERS....they are not even worth to talk about them.

Apart from money what else do you need to study finish rally managerial skills ? i am interested....

and by the way Loeb is the greatest rally driver of all times....2nd comes kankunnen and nobody cares who is 3rd.

The question was "Can Loeb be beaten"
The answer is YES,as he has been beaten,but probably he cannot be consistently beaten,but he learnt his trade peddleing SMALL cars like the Saxo,so instead of learning his rallying in WRC cars as some do (Mathew wilson),he came up the hard way making small cars go FAST!!!

He deserved to be a champion 'cos he came here from NOTHING (no millions behind him from that moment)..

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

and by the way Loeb is the greatest rally driver of all times....2nd comes kankunnen and nobody cares who is 3rd.

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If Loeb had been around 10 -15 years ago, he would have not won as many rallies.

Kankkunen was a legend not only because he won alot of rallies over many years in many types of car but because he took the win after ignoring team orders in Argentina 1999. :)

He would win as much rallies as he did now !! From 2001 to 2008 he betaed drivers like Marcus , McRae, Sainz , Solberg , Kankkunen , Burns , Auriol , Makinen (ALL WORLD CHAMPIONS ! ) and talents as Martin , Duval , Hirvonen ad Latvala.

Seriously guys , this discussion is funny . Not really funny but reading some comments it's actually sad.

Langdale, I have you pegged as a 17 year old kid. How would you know what happened 15 years ago?

Were Loeb competing 15 or more years ago he would have still been very successful. Whether or not he would have won as many rallies as he has over the past 5 years is unknown and speculation in this area is as pointless as it is ridiculous.

Why you would choose Kankkunen as a comparison is also unclear. I don't believe he's ever been widely considered a "legend".

Loeb will dominate until he decides to quit or the WRC decides to deregulate itself and ditch the homologation rules and go with a simple set of safety rules making it enticing for more manufacturers to get involved. The IRC is in a perfect position to over take as the worlds premier rally championship with the WRC being so week right now and with the IRC having more manufacturers and the classic rallies they have on their calendar. If that happened then you would see loeb in trouble. Until then he will dominate the two car race.

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Originally Posted by Langdale Forest

If Loeb had been around 10 -15 years ago, he would have not won as many rallies.

Kankkunen was a legend not only because he won alot of rallies over many years in many types of car but because he took the win after ignoring team orders in Argentina 1999. :)

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can you rephrase the first line ??? all i get is BLAH BLAH BLAH


your second sentence has a point...but kankunnen never was the Fastest driver of any year he participated he was just the best...Loeb is Both.