Cavin Driver Rumors

From Friday Indy Star pit-pass:

1. Rahal still has no contract offer from NHL. Still might end up there, but obviously Rahal brings no sponsor and his car now has no sponsor, so....

2. deFerren wants Rahal. Is half-way there with funding to get him. But half-way is still a LONG way away and he doesn't seem to have many team members left. Ganassi still in the mix too, but with Chip's disdain for American drivers, its probably a long-shot.

3. Wilson rumored to be going to D&R. Sounds like a lateral step. Maybe D&R offered to actually pay him something.

4. Coyne likely to run 2 cars. As usual, its anyone's guess who will drive them.

5. Bachelart had Junquiera and Van Heylen at the Driver's Meetings as they try and put something together.

6. Simona the Swiss Miss needs some Lights races and a IRL oval test to get OK'd to race in Indy Cars. I'd say we see her early in the season in Lights and she makes her IRL debut at Kansas (to get her ready for the Indy 500). Maybe she does the rest of the season after Indy if all goes well?


Seems to be a ton of uncertainity with most teams. Cavin reported tonight that he thought Luzco-Dragon was closer to becoming a "selected races" 1 car team this year then possibly being full-time. If Jay Penske can't find money, that's not a good sign. There are pretty strong rumors Vision will only run the ovals (at the very most) this year. Hunter-Reay still only has a half-season deal. KV has gone VERY silent, with rumors of Moraes's family fortune drying up and Tracy still trying to scrape together enough money to do 3 or 4 races.

There certainly are some good signs. FAZZT seems to be the real deal (although being aligned with Freudenburg is scary) and they look good for 2 cars at a few races this year. There are several "Indy-only" teams forming or trying to form (the one week schedule and cheaper engine deals are helping this cause). Most if not all of the teams that raced at Indy last year, should be back in some form.

But there are still a TON of pieces of the puzzle left to be filled. And some big pieces, at that. Good thing the first race isn't until mid March.

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Originally Posted by Scotty G.

6. Simona the Swiss Miss needs some Lights races and a IRL oval test to get OK'd to race in Indy Cars. I'd say we see her early in the season in Lights and she makes her IRL debut at Kansas (to get her ready for the Indy 500). Maybe she does the rest of the season after Indy if all goes well?

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This is wrong. Simona should be allowed from the start. She has more experience in feeder series then most of the 2008 rookies who never touched an oval prior to Homestead testing and race.

I just dont really understand how we go from all these "confirmed" and "probable" driver selections, and it seems that all we see in that first post is "uncertainty" and "select races". This series is looking to become not much about a championship anymore, and a matter of who can run the most races...

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Originally Posted by Chamoo

This is wrong. Simona should be allowed from the start. She has more experience in feeder series then most of the 2008 rookies who never touched an oval prior to Homestead testing and race.

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No oval experience, no dice.

Should have been the same criteria from day 1 with the Moraes's, Conway's and Viso's of the world. Would have been much safer and not torn up millions of dollars worth of equipment, while they learned what the heck they were doing (a few still need to keep "learning"). ;)

This is supposed to be a top tier, professional racing series. The Indy 500, should not be for "novices" who have barely ever been in a oval race in their life. It cheapens the event.

Simona might be talented. But if she wanted to run in a oval racing series with the Indy 500 as its marquis event, she should have not raced in Atlantics last year.

And if Team Stargate truly wants to run a car, then pick another qualified, expereinced driver. Lord knows, there are a ton of them out there. Or can't they "pick" another driver? :p :

I disagree Scott. This car doesn't take the skill to run on ovals they used to. A qualified road course racer can step into the Dallara and pilot it around an oval. These cars are so glued to the track now that experience on an oval is not nearly as important as it used to be.

Did Robert Doornbos run FIL last season? He ran alright and was not a danger on the track.

There were many more dangerous situations before the merger then afterwards, and I recall many more scary looking accidents a few years before the merger then afterwards. Could it be that the talent level of the drivers came up with the inclusion of Champ Car drivers?

As for Team Stargate Worlds, the IRL should not be telling them who they can and cannot run. Unless the IRL wants to fund their full season, they have no right in who should be running their car.

To end, I'll throw out a few names.

Marty Roth
Stanton Barrett
Milka Duno
Dr. Jack Miller

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Originally Posted by Chamoo

Unless the IRL wants to fund their full season, they have no right in who should be running their car.

To end, I'll throw out a few names.

Marty Roth
Stanton Barrett
Milka Duno
Dr. Jack Miller

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God forbid, it should appear that I am siding with Scott, but I don't think you could be any more wrong. The IRL should be vetting who is allowed to race, the names you mentioned notwithstanding. The last thing we need is some rich kid walking in buying a ride and going out on the track and killing himself or someone else.

Now, I am NOT suggesting that you have to have prior oval experience. But you should have to pass a rigorous test.

Gary

I'm apathetic to 99% of Scott's comments on the IRL, but I do agree with him & Barnhart on requiring drivers to prove their ability on ovals before letting them race in the series. Duno, Roth, etc. all had oval-testing time prior to getting their IRL license. If Stargate World's wants their racer to drive on more than the roads and streets, they need to do this (fairly minimal) oval testing before entering her into oval races. It's not only for her safety, but for the safety of the rest of the field. The fact that the ex-CC drivers have done ok on the ovals may well be a testament to their skill, it may also simply be LUCK that they have not gotten into huge wrecks. Rahal's had a few rough ones, so had Moraes, and some of the others. I can assure you that if one of these drivers had gotten seriously hurt on an oval in their first season, they would be all sorts of negative comments toward Barnhart about the fairly minimal requirements to be an IRL oval racer. So it goes both ways.

Two things. The fact that at the high banked tracks the cars have way too much stuck is well understood.

That has nothing to do with Indianapolis however, the cars can trim all they want there.

On the high banks, the loss of downforce associated with traffic and following passing is a major learning curve.

rh

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I disagree Scott. This car doesn't take the skill to run on ovals they used to. A qualified road course racer can step into the Dallara and pilot it around an oval. These cars are so glued to the track now that experience on an oval is not nearly as important as it used to be.

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I agree that at places like Kansas, Texas and Kentucky, it doesn't take a ton of skill or experience to get into a car and be able to get up to speed in a hurry. But to RACE them at those places, with 25 other cars on the track, is a whole different ballgame. Remember the comments from the oval novices like Viso and Doornbos when they first got into a Indy Car on a oval. "It looks a whole lot easier on TV" was one that I remember. And Indy is a whole nother' ballgame altogether then the above places. We all saw what Mario Moraes looked like in 2008, when Coyne left him out to lead the field late in the race. Talk about being out of his element. It was a minor miracle he didn't hit the wall or someone else. He had no clue what he was doing. He seems to have learned with experience and seat-time though (although many drivers are still scared being around him on the track), but it still took time.

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Did Robert Doornbos run FIL last season? He ran alright and was not a danger on the track.

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He arguably should have. He never impressed anyone on a oval all year. He crashed 3 times at Indy last May. He ran himself out of money with NHL because of all the crash damage. He could have used oval experience, no matter how many F1 or Champ Car races he was in.

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Could it be that the talent level of the drivers came up with the inclusion of Champ Car drivers?

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Maybe, but probably not. The oval experience level has sure gone down and coincidently, the oval racing/action has gone down too. When you are "learning on the fly", you are more conservative (or at least should be). Either that, or you hit the wall really hard once, and you suddenly "get" more conservative. ;)

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As for Team Stargate Worlds, the IRL should not be telling them who they can and cannot run.

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Why not? Its their series. If they don't think a driver is fit or qualified to race in its top series, they have every right to refuse someone. NASCAR does it all of the time. Better drivers then Simona have been told to come back later or "go get some experience" in previous years in this sport. I disagreed last fall, when Bailey refused some drivers in the Lights season finale (its a feeder series, for crying out loud). But for Indy Car and more specifically the Indy 500, you better come with oval experience and a talent-level that justifies you being a part of the event. At 110 MPH on a road course, you make a inexperienced mistake and likely end up in a gravel trap. At 230 MPH on a oval, you make a oval racing inexperience mistake and you can end up on a stretcher headed for the hospital.

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To end, I'll throw out a few names.

Marty Roth
Stanton Barrett
Milka Duno
Dr. Jack Miller

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Like him or not, Roth had many oval races under his belt (in both incarnations of Indy Lights) before he ever stepped foot in a IRL car. Even then, he was CLOSELY monitored and many testing miles were required for him to ever get OK'd to run at Indy (or anywhere else in the league). Even after he had qualified for a Indy 500, he was still CLOSELY monitored the next year at Indy during practice as well.

Barrett ran NASCAR for years and ran in a few Daytona 500's. No need to put him in this list. He proved competent and safe last year, in a s-box for a car.

I'll give you Duno and Miller. Duno was still required to get hundreds of miles of testing in on a oval, before she was OK'd. Short fields were why she was really needed. 20 years ago, she would have never gotten a OK and would have stayed in the safe confines of sports car racing, where she belongs. Miller was terrible, but did have some oval racing experience in Indy Lights. He was finally bad enough in Indy Car, for Barnhart to basically pull his license and tell him to take an early retirement.


Hey, Simona might be the "real deal". But there are tons of guys and gals out there, who RIGHT NOW, are better equipped to run a Indy Car on a oval, then her. Stargate, if they are a true racing organization, should hire a driver early in the season and then turn the car over to Simona at some point. No one is saying their team is not welcome. Plenty of worthy oval-experienced drivers out there that should be looked at. Or are they just a "ride-buyers" team, that only functions because of the check the driver brings?

Scott, I am going to defer to you on this one as far as the standards for ovals, I cant say I disagree with what you have said on this one.

Except this: Where did you get the idea Chip doesn't like American drivers? Isn't that like being a self loathing Jew?

C' mon...Cavin I know didn't say something like that, so don't get all this stuff from Cavin's column and then toss in THAT. Ganassi likes drivers that WIN and have talent. He had Micheal Andretti as a driver once....so he doesn't HATE American drivers. The reason he hasn't hired any is because when the seats were open, none of the choices were as good as the guys he hired. I am sure if Sam Hornish was a free agent, he might have made a go at him.....

This anti-foreign kick you have is nauseating and silly.....

The reason so many Europeans and Brazilians are in this sport is because they need jobs, and they have sponsors that will pay to get them rides. The fact remains tho, most of them have the talent to have those rides, because I wouldn't want to tell Tony Kanaan, Helio or a Robert Doornbos they are talentless boobs who got a ride through their sponsors only.

Talent rises to the top with Roger Penske and Chip. The fact neither team has any Americans on them in the elite roles just proves how many Americans have given up on the climb up the OW ladder and ran off to race NASCAR. THAT is just following the money son.....because in NASCAR drivers get PAID to race, and in the IRL the last few years, all but a few PAID to race...

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Originally Posted by Scotty G.

From Friday Indy Star pit-pass:
2. deFerren wants Rahal. Is half-way there with funding to get him. But half-way is still a LONG way away and he doesn't seem to have many team members left. Ganassi still in the mix too, but with Chip's disdain for American drivers, its probably a long-shot.

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Didn't know Chip was harboring such hate for Jeemy... :s :

I think the IRL has every right to require certain standards of experience from their drivers, but I think they ought to be consistent and establish and publish minimum requirements that don't vary from driver to driver.

Also, I think they ought to follow NASCAR's lead on licenses and have a progressive license. I don't understand why they can't offer a road/street license, a 1 to 2 mile track license and an Indy License or a full license for qualified drivers.

If they had a NASCAR-style license system Simona could run the first four races since no one doubts her road-course skill, test at Kansas, race at Kansas, and if she finishes Kansas and runs in the Freedom 100 she she'd be okay for the race.

Honestly, I don't know why this isn't worked out.

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

Where did you get the idea Chip doesn't like American drivers?

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Ask Robin Miller. He knows Chip and he consistantly says this is the case.

The fact that he has hired 2 (Vasser and Renna) in a decade of AOW, tells the story. And not all of his hires have been "Montoya or Dixon" types of talent either.

Chip wins. Indy Car loses.

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Originally Posted by Scotty G.

Ask Robin Miller. He knows Chip and he consistantly says this is the case.

The fact that he has hired 2 (Vasser and Renna) in a decade of AOW, tells the story. And not all of his hires have been "Montoya or Dixon" types of talent either.

Chip wins. Indy Car loses.

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You better go back and check your coloring book Scotty as Chip has hired more than 2 Americans since he started back in 1990. Chip Ganassi has hired 8 American drivers since the team started. I might have missed one or two drivers on this list but it complete a list as I have.

1990- Eddie Cheever,
1991- Eddie Cheever,
1992- Arie Luyendyk, Eddie Cheever, Robby Gordon
1993- Arie Luyendyk,
1994-Michael Andretti,Mauricio Gugelmin,
1995-Bryan Herta, Jimmy Vasser,
1996- Alex Zannardi, Jimmy Vasser,
1997- Alex Zannardi, Jimmy Vasser, Arie Luyendyk,
1998- Alex Zannardi, Jimmy Vasser,
1999- Juan Montoya, Jimmy Vasser,
2000- Juan Montoya, Jimmy Vasser,
2001- Bruno Junqueira, Niclous Minassain, Memo Gidley, Tony Stewart, Jimmy Vasser
2002- Bruno Junqueira, Kenny Brack, Scott Dixon, Jeff Ward
2003- Tomas Scheckter, Scott Dixon, Jimmy Vasser, Tony Renna *
2004- Scott Dixon, Darren Manning
2005- Ryan Briscoe, Scott Dixon, Darren Manning
2006- Dan Wheldon, Scott Dixon,
2007- Scott Dixon, Dan Wheldon
2008- Scott Dixon, Dan Wheldon
2009- Scott Dixon, Dario Franchitti
2010- Scott Dixon, Dario Franchitti

*Tony Renna is listed in 2003 as he was killed at Indy during a test in 2003.

I think you only missed Richie Hearn.

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Originally Posted by Civic

I think you only missed Richie Hearn.

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Nope, missed Jaques Lazier and Giorgio Pantano in 2005.

Scott, I agree with you on most points. I did forget to mention that I do want to see Simona complete a hell of a lot of testing on an oval prior to running an IICS event. I know she isn't ready for ovals yet, but when the old requirement was x miles of oval testing which is doable and understandable.

Of course, HVM didn't want to run 2500 miles on an oval as that costs money, so they tried to compromise to a lower number of miles based on the cases of EJ Viso, Mario Moraes, Milka Duno and a few others, however I believe they were willing to do the 2500 miles according to team member, if it came down to it.

Now the IRL has changed their tune to doing x miles (not sure of the exact number, but it's still alot) plus FIL races which makes no sense, and is not fair IMO.

This is the part I'm upset with.

Of course, if she was going to run ovals in 2010 in a Dallara, I'd expect her to run x number of miles testing on an oval. But to expect her to go above and beyond the normal requirements for whatever reason (possible reasons below) is somewhat rediculous when lesser drivers have been allowed to avoid the full testing requirements in the past.

I figure possible reasons include the following.

- I figure this is the least likely, but the IRL might be protecting Danica a bit here. Given the chance, I think, and probably a bunch of other people think as well, that Simona would probably come into the IRL with much better road course skills. Sure, seeing two women battling for a meaningful position would be a positive, but the IRL has put so much money into Danica, they probably don't want to see a rookie steal her spotlight. I mean, Milka or Sarah aren't really prepared to compete with Danica for a full season.

- They feel she isn't prepared for ovals, which is probably the case. But again, I don't see why she should have to do more then is required to be allowed to race on ovals.

- The last reason, is that she is being punished for driving in Atlantics and choosing that series instead of the IRL feeder FIL. The IRL may be taking a calculated shot at the Atlantic Championship through de Silvestro trying to send a message that Atlantic drivers aren't welcome anymore.

It may be one of the reasons I listed above, or maybe a combination of all of them. But it just doesn't seem right to me.

And Scotty, I don't feel that the inclusion of the Champ Car teams brought down the excitement of the oval races in the IRL. That is more likely a combination of the aerodynamics caused by the new exhaust system on the Dallara, and the domination of Penske and Ganassi.

And in regards to the IRL only accepting Duno and Roth because of low car counts, is the IRL so sure they can afford to turn de Silvestro/another car down for 2010?

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Originally Posted by Phoenixent

You better go back and check your coloring book Scotty as Chip has hired more than 2 Americans since he started back in 1990. Chip Ganassi has hired 8 American drivers since the team started. I might have missed one or two drivers on this list but it complete a list as I have.

1990- Eddie Cheever,
1991- Eddie Cheever,
1992- Arie Luyendyk, Eddie Cheever, Robby Gordon
1993- Arie Luyendyk,
1994-Michael Andretti,Mauricio Gugelmin,
1995-Bryan Herta, Jimmy Vasser,
1996- Alex Zannardi, Jimmy Vasser,
1997- Alex Zannardi, Jimmy Vasser, Arie Luyendyk,
1998- Alex Zannardi, Jimmy Vasser,
1999- Juan Montoya, Jimmy Vasser,
2000- Juan Montoya, Jimmy Vasser,
2001- Bruno Junqueira, Niclous Minassain, Memo Gidley, Tony Stewart, Jimmy Vasser
2002- Bruno Junqueira, Kenny Brack, Scott Dixon, Jeff Ward
2003- Tomas Scheckter, Scott Dixon, Jimmy Vasser, Tony Renna *
2004- Scott Dixon, Darren Manning
2005- Ryan Briscoe, Scott Dixon, Darren Manning
2006- Dan Wheldon, Scott Dixon,
2007- Scott Dixon, Dan Wheldon
2008- Scott Dixon, Dan Wheldon
2009- Scott Dixon, Dario Franchitti
2010- Scott Dixon, Dario Franchitti

*Tony Renna is listed in 2003 as he was killed at Indy during a test in 2003.

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Yup, that Chip Ganassi hates Americans!! Heck....other than Sam Hornish, what American going back to Al Jr. has seen a lot of love from Roger Penske either? Last I looked, Paul Tracy is from my part of the world, and between Kiwi's, Australians and Brazilians, Roger hasn't been hiring Americans either.

THe common thread tho is both Chip and Roger like to win, and the guys they have hired for the most part have won races. The fact no Americans since Sam Hornish have been consistent winning threats isn't Chip's fault or Roger's fault, it is a by product of the downfall of the sport, and THAT is from dropping TV ratings, dropping sponsorships, and a general decrease in interest in the IRL and in CART from yes....that split.

American drivers of sufficient charimsa and talent are not pushing towards the IRL. Ryan Hunter-Reay, Danica Patrick, Graham Rahal, and Marco Andretti are all American drivers, but not one of the four has proven they can win at this level on any consistent basis. If anything, if you put them in a room with Carl Edwards, Tony Stewart, Kasey Kahne and Ryan Newman; and were asked to select 4 drivers to take to drive Indycars on an oval tomorrow, you would be nuts to not take the NASCAR 4 even with 3 of those guys never having SAT in an Indycar. They went to NASCAR like Jeff Gordon because that is where the money is, and THAT series races 36 plus weekends a year. They want to race. What is more, they all have sprint/midget experience, and THAT leads guys to go to cars where the engine is up front. The SCCA/USAC ff2000 level of racing is the only place where you get on the bottom rung of ow racing that leads to an Atlantic or Indy Light.

When Tony started the IRL, he never understood the rungs on the ladder have to be there for drivers to climb up to Indycar. He just saw all the "furrniners" and vowed it was wrong. If he had taken the IRL to a "roadster" for the modern age, I suspect a few of the guys who went to NASCAR might have gone to the IRL.....

I think testing and proving you can handle an aspect of racing you're not used to should be required no matter what. But, they have to put those parameters up there so they are the same for everybody, year in and year out. I don't think Danica had more than 1 or 2 ovals in an Atlantic car before she was put in over her head with RLR. She was no different than people like Doornbos, Moraes, Viso, etc. while they were becoming familiar. Why should it be any different for anybody else? Just put a standard in place and that is the end of it I would think?

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Originally Posted by gofastandwynn

Nope, missed Jaques Lazier and Giorgio Pantano in 2005.

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Thanks for the info on these two drivers. :)

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Originally Posted by Phoenixent

You better go back and check your coloring book Scotty as Chip has hired more than 2 Americans since he started back in....

2000- Juan Montoya, Jimmy Vasser,
2001- Bruno Junqueira, Niclous Minassain, Memo Gidley, Tony Stewart, Jimmy Vasser
2002- Bruno Junqueira, Kenny Brack, Scott Dixon, Jeff Ward
2003- Tomas Scheckter, Scott Dixon, Jimmy Vasser, Tony Renna *
2004- Scott Dixon, Darren Manning
2005- Ryan Briscoe, Scott Dixon, Darren Manning
2006- Dan Wheldon, Scott Dixon,
2007- Scott Dixon, Dan Wheldon
2008- Scott Dixon, Dan Wheldon
2009- Scott Dixon, Dario Franchitti
2010- Scott Dixon, Dario Franchitti

*Tony Renna is listed in 2003 as he was killed at Indy during a test in 2003.

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You don't read very well, do you? What part of PAST DECADE do you not comprehend?

Since 2000, Floyd has hired Renna and Vasser as his FULL-TIME drivers. TG paid Floyd to run Jeff Ward in the IRL, so if you want to count him, go ahead. 2 in a decade. Yep, he really loves them American drivers.

Stewart was only hired when Bruno and Manassian were chasing their tails as Indy rookies in 2001, and Chip panicked a few days before the track opened.

E-mail Robin Miller and ask him about Chip's thoughts on American drivers. I betcha he paints the exact same portrait I have.

BTW, next time you want to call someone out, bring a little more amo to the party. ;)

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The fact no Americans since Sam Hornish have been consistent winning threats isn't Chip's fault or Roger's fault, it is a by product of the downfall of the sport, and THAT is from dropping TV ratings, dropping sponsorships, and a general decrease in interest in the IRL and in CART from yes....that split

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Maybe the most laughable statement I have read in a long time. Its never the owners fault for anything, is it? Was it "the split" that caused Alex Gurney, Jon Fogarty, Bryan Sellers and Joey Hand to all not get hired? Guess what? American drivers's numbers were FALLING before any "split". Look at the numbers at Indy from the mid 1980's to 1995 and get back to me.

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American drivers of sufficient charimsa and talent are not pushing towards the IRL.

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Gee, I wonder why not? Maybe some are smart enough to realize that if your daddy or relative doesn't own the car for you in Indy Car, you don't have much of a shot of getting a ride. Maybe some are smart enough to see how few of "their" kind are in the sport nowadays and are going to other forms of racing that actually are HIRING them.

If you were an American driver of any talent whatsoever, you'd have to be a complete fool to "push" towards the IRL.

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Originally Posted by Scotty G.

You don't read very well, do you? What part of PAST DECADE do you not comprehend?

Since 2000, Floyd has hired Renna and Vasser as his FULL-TIME drivers. TG paid Floyd to run Jeff Ward in the IRL, so if you want to count him, go ahead. 2 in a decade. Yep, he really loves them American drivers.

BTW, next time you want to call someone out, bring a little more amo to the party. ;)

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Look Scotty you said DRIVERS not full time drivers see the quote from your post. Maybe it is you that should learn how to read and get off this whole poor American drivers. If most would get off there ass and market themselves then maybe there would be more American drivers in AOWR. As for your picking on the past decade is there are 8 American drivers that drove for Chip.

You stated 2 American full time drivers Vasser and Renna since 2000, Vasser drove in CART in 2000 for the full season and Renna did not drive in competition for Ganassi Racing he tested for Chip and died. Make up your mind is this a Indycar issue or an AOWR issue. If it's the later than you need to include all history of the team.

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Originally Posted by Scotty G.

Ask Robin Miller. He knows Chip and he consistantly says this is the case.

The fact that he has hired 2 (Vasser and Renna) in a decade of AOW, tells the story. And not all of his hires have been "Montoya or Dixon" types of talent either.

Chip wins. Indy Car loses.

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Winning is the name of the game and when foreign drivers come to grips with the Cup car it will be the same in NASCAR.

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Originally Posted by Scotty G.

BTW, next time you want to call someone out, bring a little more amo to the party. ;)

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:confused: Coming from a guy that is in a gun battle with a sock and a cue ball....seriously. You haven't supplied 1 iota of support for a single point you've tried to make. You might go back to the last forum that ran you off...seems they had a good reason.

I remember now. Ganassi hired Hearn as a backup driver in case Tony Stewart couldn't make the 2001 race because of NASCAR obligations.

RE American drivers.....

You seem to be forgetting one VERY IMPORTANT THING. Not all drivers are equal. Your argument he "doesn't like American drivers" would be valid IF all drivers of all nationalities had the same skill levels.

However, they don't. It just happens that some drivers are more talented, have more skill, are better, or even more marketable, than others. It also just so happens that these drivers come from countries outside the USA.

You'd be a pretty rubbish team owner if you had a choice of two drivers, one from America who was a bit rubbish and one from XYZ country who was good - and chose the rubbish driver!

Chip seems to be winning rather a lot, so I'm kinda thinking that he's got it the right way round.

(Just as an aside and purely out of interest, what drivers from the USA should he have hired next year rather than Dario & Dixon?)

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Originally Posted by Starter

This is one place where I'll agree with you. It was a crime that these guys and a couple others, never even got a sniff of a ride, not even in the second car. There's something called restocking the pond and the owners didn't do it. Memo was the lone exception and everyone who was around then knows what he did to get some attention.

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Thanks for being a voice of reason here. :s mokin:

Here are some stats for the class:

Since 1998, there have been 44 different American-born drivers who have won races in Indy Lights, Atlantics or IPS/Lights.

Of those 44 race-winning drivers, only 16 have ever raced in one Indy 500. That is only around 35%.

Of those 44 race-winning drivers, only 20 (46%) have ever driven at least one race in either CART/Champ Car/Indy Car.

Of those 44 race-winning drivers, only 4 or 5 (10%) are probable to be semi-to-fulltime drivers in the 2010 Indy Car series (Marco Andretti, Hunter-Reay, Carpenter, possibly Antinucci and possibly Hildebrand).


Maybe a few of those race-winners weren't worldbeaters (Jon Herb, Mark Hotchkiss, Cory Witherill and Geoff Boss come to mind). But many others HAD real talent. Some won championships. Many had talent to be full-time drivers. Some had the talent and charisma to be American heroes for our fans to follow.

The drivers have been there in the past 11 years. Its too bad most have either been ignored or shuffled out of the sport because they couldn't pay their way all the way up to the top of the ladder.

And it goes even farther back then 1998. Back in the early 90's, when most of the legendary names of the sport (Foyt, Mario, Rutherford, Unser, Johncock, Sneva, Rahal, Sullivan, Fittipaldi, Mears) ALL retired at around the same time, most weren't replaced and a HUGE hole was created. The sport DESPERATELY needed new American heroes and talent to come in, and they dropped the ball. Big time.

And then what made things even worse is when some new, interesting talent actually WAS unearthed and had accomplished something, those drivers left for greener pastures (Villenueve, Stewart, Robby Gordon, Allmendinger, Bourdais, Hornish, Montoya, Zanardi and now Patrick).

So not only are we not finding/promoting the new American talent, but we are also losing most of the accomplished drivers (in their primes) to other forms of racing.

You can't survive this way.

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Originally Posted by Scotty G.

Here are some stats for the class:

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Lose the condescending tone. This is not a class and despite your delusions of grandeur you are not our teacher. On these forums, you are just another fan like the rest of us.

Gary

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Originally Posted by Scotty G.

Thanks for being a voice of reason here. :s mokin:

Here are some stats for the class:

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How does that compare to non-American Atlantics/IPS/Lights winners?

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Originally Posted by Scotty G.

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Maybe the most laughable statement I have read in a long time. Its never the owners fault for anything, is it? Was it "the split" that caused Alex Gurney, Jon Fogarty, Bryan Sellers and Joey Hand to all not get hired? Guess what? American drivers's numbers were FALLING before any "split". Look at the numbers at Indy from the mid 1980's to 1995 and get back to me. .

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I am getting back to you Jon Fogarty, Alex Gurney and others couldn't do the job. I know you find this hard to believe, but MAYBE the American feeder system to Indycar isn't doing the job. I didn't see any great talents other than Hornish, Stewart and Schmidt in the 90's, and all are out of the Indycar game now. The fact is training to drive one of these cars is through road racing. You can hate it, but Tony George had 14 years almost to remedy this, and instead he turned the IRL into a CART clone within 11 years. GEE....shoot him will ya? Don't blame us for pointing out the failings of the management of the IRL who bragged when they started they were going to SAVE American Indy Car racing and the American driver. I have news for you, the American driver is doing VERY well driving NASCAR. The best talent is going to NASCAR.

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Originally Posted by Scotty G.

.Gee, I wonder why not? Maybe some are smart enough to realize that if your daddy or relative doesn't own the car for you in Indy Car, you don't have much of a shot of getting a ride. Maybe some are smart enough to see how few of "their" kind are in the sport nowadays and are going to other forms of racing that actually are HIRING them.

If you were an American driver of any talent whatsoever, you'd have to be a complete fool to "push" towards the IRL.

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You are right, you would have to be a fool I guess because the sport is so awful, why it must be folded. So why are a) you on this board? and b) aware of who could have made all these changes you see as so vital?

Scott, I don't get you, I am sure you are just some guy who thinks he has all the answers because he just KNOWS he is right, but the reality you espouse isn't borne out of the experience of what Tony George discovered when he took his ball and created a new series.

CART may have had a lot of faults, but a lot of them would have been headed off with unity in the field of OW racing. I do know this much, an All oval series was tried...the proof is in the IRL record books......complete with a mandate to get American drivers. For Crying out loud Scott, even AJ FOYT wont hire Americans. You still think there is a conspiracy?

Here is how its done in the big leagues of racing:

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"Front Row Motorsports rookie Kevin Conway might have to begin his quest for Sprint Cup rookie honors sometime after the Daytona 500. NASCAR has not yet given Conway approval to race a Cup car at Daytona International Speedway, a NASCAR spokesman confirmed Monday. Conway has no restrictor-plate starts in any of the three NASCAR national touring series and none in the Automobile Racing Club of America. Typically, NASCAR would require a driver to have a start in a restrictor-plate race in another series or have raced in another elite, high-speed form of racing before making a Cup debut at Daytona"

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Or maybe NASCAR is "screwing" Conway, like the IRL is with Simona.

Atlantics should be classified as a "high-speed form of racing".

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Originally Posted by Scotty G.

Here is how its done in the big leagues of racing:




Or maybe NASCAR is "screwing" Conway, like the IRL is with Simona.

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Gee Scott, if NASCAR is big league and the IRL isn't maybe you should post on the NASCAR board. I am sure your posts would be welcome.

The IRL can keep Simona off IMS, I don't have a problem with it.....they kept Milka Duno out and thank god for that..