Breaking news now on Sky. The sleazeball could return :s
Edit: Jon Noble's Twitter feed is saying the same.
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Breaking news now on Sky. The sleazeball could return :s
Edit: Jon Noble's Twitter feed is saying the same.
Boo, hiss, booooooo! (Sorry stuck in panto mode :D ).
Yes I think this was the expected outcome.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80743
No surprises really. I don't suppose we'll see him back in F1 anytime soon though.
€15,000 compensation apparently. That'll buy a new pair of gold-plated slippers.
Seriously, what are the odds of him returning to F1 now? He's clearly a talented businessman, but is also tainted goods and you do have to wonder if sponsors would want to be associated with him.
Unlikely I would have thought. He hasn't been found innocent of the charge of race fixing. It's just that the penalty imposed by the FIA has been found to be illegal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Brockman
Good choice IMO.
Sensible and correct. Hopefully it'll teach the FIA to use a more proper process in their decision making in the future.
Who else could the FIA burn? Flav and Pat were out in the wind, everybody else and their brother had immunity. They should have burned the little rat who went to the FIA with the story. Everybody wants to make Flav out to be sooooooo evil and maybe he is, but if he hadn't have fired Rat jr. halfway through, this story would still be buried.
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/Quote:
Flavio Briatore and his former Renault colleague Pat Symonds have won their court case against the FIA in Paris. The judge has ordered that the bans against both men must be lifted and has ordered the FIA to send out a message to all teams to that effect. It has 15 days in which to do so. The FIA has indicated that it may well appeal.
They cheated, they got caught. However the punishment was ridiculous and clearly handed down by Max.
I doubt Flavio will find employment and I think Symonds indicated no desire to return to F1 even if he was given one.
:thumbs:Quote:
Originally Posted by I am evil Homer
perfectly summed up and agreed.
I don't think a lifetime ban is a "ridiculous" penalty for conspiring to have one of your drivers crash intentionally (endangering his life and the lives of other competitors).
Ron Dennis is coming back?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Brockman
:rotflmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by Copse
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/for...rmula-One.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Quote:
[Spygate] was a minor indiscretion by junior members of the organisation that got amplified into a bigger issue,’ says Dennis, in an interview with Esquire magazine. It wasn’t the way it was portrayed. As always, with the passing of time, the truth will come out.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-1240141/Ron-Dennis-Ive-paid-price-dedicating-30-years-Formula-One.html#ixzz0bm9k8KV7
http://www.paddockreport.com/index.p...briatore-case/
Maybe he can pick up some of the sponsors that ditched Tiger. :p :
As I have stated many times previously - the FIA decsion was unjust, vindictive and carried out by a power and not a court.
For the first time justice WAS carried out in this case and I say congratulations to Flavio.
Any team should take on the services of a manager that understands how to win championships and is the one that led both Schumacher and Alonso to double title wins.
The probability of this decision being overturned is zero.
The FIA is a capricious paranoid and overbearing organization - legalizing secret versions of cheating - the secret Ferrari veto - while aiming at its perceived enemies - Ron Dennis and Flavio Briatore - and trying to destroy them with its power - the $100 million fine and the prevention of Flavio to work.
Anyone supporting the FIA action is no different to them and the next time it takes action through its stewards or any other means do not be hypocritical and condemn the FIA.
Vive le justice!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbolt
Ron Dennis can spin it anyway he wants. The Facts all point to the fact that his organization OBTAINED, POSSESSED & USED STOLEN PROPERTY.
The incident in Singapore pales in Comparison.
Tony, they only had those Ferrari docs to look at them and have a good read, they weren't trying to gain any advantage! Honest!
i didn't do it it was someone elseQuote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
was a minor indiscretion by junior members of the organisation that got amplified into a bigger issue
"I'm innocent!" I didn't know anything about a crash! I was following the Bundesliga football at the time. The team I bet on was winning.Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbolt
Can we not make this thread about Ron (again!)....this is about Flav and Symonds.
Anthony is way off...Renault knowingly endangered the life of a driver and others, far worse than industrial espionage. Problem is the FIA went about this all the wrong way, although you'd presume Symonds admission and Witness X's knowledge were enough to show Flavio knew about it.
Tainted goods? When has that stopped anyone before?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Brockman
The odds of him returning are pretty good I would say, it all depends on his motivation. Seeing how his wife looks like, I can think of at least two reasons as to why he would not bother returning to F1.
Justice?Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Devote
When in other sports you are caught cheating (using steroids for example), you are banned for 2 or for 3 years and on second time, you get banned for life.
Flavio does the same, actually he does something much worse (he endangered lives of the drivers, the marshalls and the public), gets convicted and now all the stupid FIA haters are actually cheering the decision to allow him back to F1?
I wonder how those people conduct their daily business and if they praise cheating and dishonest behaviour?
If you fools were able to look at it neutrally without your obvious hate for the FIA, you would find this decision disgusting (as anyone honest would), but no, your intellectual midgetry does not allow you to behave like that and rise above your hate.
Could anyone give me any rational reasons as to why this is a good decision?
NB! hating the FIA is not a rational reason
Garry? Have you not put the troll on your ignore list yet? I hadn't read that rubbish until you quoted it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
I never put anyone on ignore list, never have and never will.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
But I honestly do feel for you for you having to read his nonsense due to me quoting him and apologize.
Apology accepted :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
I never used to use the ignore function but since I put people on there the forum has become a lot more enjoyable and very few facepalm moments :)
As far as the Renault crash goes, I'm not sure that was cheating. Bad taste maybe, but not cheating. It really happened way too early in the race to ensure any result except a Piquet, Jr DNF and that could have been done by calling the car in for some phantom problem. It's not much different than other sports where a coach has a player fake an injury to stop the clock without using a time out. One thing is for sure and that should be the identity of "witness X". According to the appeal, only 4 people within the team knew about this and attended the discussion when it was decided. That would be Pat, Flav, Piquet, Jr., and X. X was the main witness for the FIA. Supposedly, X was the only one out of the three that was against the idea. Alonso or Piquet, Sr.? I can see Piquet, Sr, wanting to protect his kid and his superlicense but it's also strange that Renault didn't mind Alonso leaving a bit early either.
On the Ferrari-McLaren thing, I've thought there was a rat there from day one. I do think that McLaren was set-up on that deal and I believe the puppetmaster was Di Montemezolo. It wasn't personal against McLaren, it would have been tried on any team that pushed Ferrari hard that year. For all the wounded moaning coming out of the Ferrari camp I maintained it was a set-up and the final proof would be once the FIA had smacked McLaren down hard enough, Ferrari would drop the criminal charges. The criminal charges weren't dropped in the Toyota-Ferrari deal because that was a real industrial espionage case. The way the FIA rules and the language it uses in it's rules makes them almost impossible to fight and win unless they have a change of heart due to outside pressure or you go outside of them like Flav. In addition, way back when, I said Mclaren's absolute final punishment would not become final until the Renault with McLaren plans fiasco was settled. That was done to make McLaren behave properly with no screaming, shouting, and running to outside courts while Renault got their hand slapped and wandered off virturally untouched.
Whether cheating works or not it's still cheating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiero 5.7
Was it cheating? Was the running order after the crash the exact same as the finishing order? was it race fixing or race strategy?
I dislike Flavio quite strongly, but I still welcome this decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
The reason is that I do is very similar to Flavio's own main point of argument and the one the court seems to have agreed with. The decision was made in a completely arbitrary way, personally decided by Max Mosely, based not on facts and rules, but on what he felt was "right". It was decided before the meeting, a meeting of a body that has shown in the past that it operates as nothing but a bunch of puppets for the president. The FIA does have statutes, rule books and principles determining how its role as rule keeper should be executed, but this case made it clear to everyone that they were either ignored, or that they lack the appropriate due process for an organisation of FIAs type.
The punishments were, IMO, appropriate. However, the way they were decided was completely inappropriate, and should be rightly be thrown out. Re-trial would be a good solution, if that would be possible (which I doubt it is).
You mention doping bans from other sports. There is a reason that the standard is a 2 or 3 year ban the first time, and not life. Various prejudicial cases have decided that banning somebody for life from what is their livelihood is excessive for a first charge cheating. The second time around, otoh it has been accepted. Life bans have been handed out in very serious cases, and I do think that the Flavio case is one, and that the life ban is reasonable compared to other sports. As I mentioned in the thread where Flavio's initial appeal was discussed, civil courts have examined bans in other sports, sometimes saying ok, and sometimes invalidiating them, not uncommonly on procedural reasons. The difference is that other governing bodies, such as the FIS (skiing) and the UCI (cycling) have had time to develop proper processes for them to act according to in their role as both prosecutor and judge. The FIA clearly hasn't. They need to!
Flavio should be banned for life, but because he broke serious rules and endangered lives. Not because Max dislikes him.
As a summary: We praise this decision because we value the rule of law higher than revenge. Your comments make it seem like you would fit in quite well as a policeman in some kind of dictatorial state. That usually works rather well right up until it is you or your family that get summarily sentenced and executed.
Garry i'm not cheering the return of flav at all...i'd rather he never came back after what he did. However, the way the FIA handled the entire episode struck me and others as a kangaroo court. It wasn't a transparent process.
I suspect the FIA may win an appeal actually with the evidence it has claiming that is sufficient to not let Flavio run a team again but no one has seen it. In terms of driver management I think they really cannot stop him.
Q: can you bet on a driver not to finish a race ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiero 5.7
Bernie would welcome him back (what a shock..)
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80751Quote:
"I said at the time that even murderers don't get life sentences these days and the court seems to agree," Ecclestone told the Daily Express newspaper.
"He is welcome to come back to the paddock. He was a great character in F1 but I am not sure if that is what he wants to do now. I think he will move on from that.
"It's good for him but it is not good for the FIA when you read the verdict."
I would like to see Sleazy Flav come back to F1 and turn up in Singapore for the GP there. I think that he will find Singapore an enduring place to spend some jail time.
Perhaps a public caning for him? I bet Max would love to join in on that! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
I do remember one case which created a hue and cry worldwide: Michael Fay, American teenager student was caught vandalising some cars and he was caned for his transgression. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._FayQuote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
The case disappeared from world news just after the caning when another news item received a helluva lot more publicity: OJ was arrested for the murder of his wife and her friend.
I remember that well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
Telling someone to crash in order to influence a race result is a little worse than behaviour carried out by every single race team the world over, and every single automotive firm and supplier the world over.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
There's not a single race team, auto firm or auto supplier in the world that doesn't "benchmark". Mclaren's failure was they made the mistake to get caught and get caught with evidence in hand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Oh please! Who's lives were put in danger by the alleged use of the pilfered property? Do you really have such little value for human life that you would say something as ridiculous as this?
Gary
Rubbish. McLaren's failure to acknowledge that they were caught is what is the worse they did. They are a bunch of effin' cheaters and liars.Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH