If you were Whitmarsh.. Jenson or Kimi?

As above.. If you were Martin Whitmarsh and had the choice of choosing either of them as your No2 for 2010 who would you go for?

Outright pace/Ability- I'd probably put Kimi just ahead, Jenson 8.5/10, Kimi 9/10
Consistancy- Probably Jenson.
Marketability- Jenson as the current WDC must win there..
Salary- Kimi has got to be the cheaper option...
Dedication- Kimi seems to lose interest when he hasn't got the car, Jenson wins..

There are other aspects to be considered too, like nationality.. why not have a Scandinavian interest in your team?


Overall, Kimi just edges it for me.. Your thoughts?

if i were Alan Whitmarsh i would have no say anyway,

if, however, i were Martin Whitmarsh i think i'd take Button. Kimi is too unpredicatble for me, and Mclaren already have opne of, if not the fastest, driver out there in Hamilton, Button i think will complement Hamilton, and i hope may surprise by being closer to him than many are giving him credit for.

Plus having the last 2 yrs World Champs in your team is great from a marketing perspective

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Originally Posted by Zico

Salary- Kimi has got to be the cheaper option...

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I wouldn't be so sure about that one. Yes Jenson is after a pay rise as the defending world champ, but I'm pretty sure Kimi was the highest paid driver on the grid this year and will be after something similar?

Jenson will never win another championship again. I'd go for Kimi.

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Originally Posted by Zico

Salary- Kimi has got to be the cheaper option...

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Well there's absolutely no chance of Kimi being the cheaper option, he was by far the highest paid driver on the grid and I'm sure I read that he will earn more next year for sitting out (certainly will be paid more than the salary McLaren will give Button) so I guess we won't be seeing Kimi in F1 next year.

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Originally Posted by Robinho

if i were Alan Whitmarsh i would have no say anyway,

if, however, i were Martin Whitmarsh i think i'd take Button. Kimi is too unpredicatble for me, and Mclaren already have opne of, if not the fastest, driver out there in Hamilton, Button i think will complement Hamilton, and i hope may surprise by being closer to him than many are giving him credit for.

Plus having the last 2 yrs World Champs in your team is great from a marketing perspective

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Mistake corrected and fair points.. Kimi is said to be interested in no other team out there which if true is a bit of a shock to me when he knows he would be the non-official No2.

You think Button would be a better team player than Kimi?.. I suppose I'd be persuaded to go along with that

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Originally Posted by V12

I wouldn't be so sure about that one. Yes Jenson is after a pay rise as the defending world champ, but I'm pretty sure Kimi was the highest paid driver on the grid this year and will be after something similar?

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But can he realisticly demand the same salary this year?

To me it looks like the current situation is really coming down to who wants to race in F1 enough. Who is ready to race for what he is offered and stay motivated. Although Button wants a relatively decent salary as well, he seems to have more will to stay in F1. If Kimi's manager told me that "we will be in F1 only if we can race for your team and for a ultra-high salary we demand", then well sorry it doesn't leave me a good impression at all.

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Originally Posted by Powered by Cosworth

Jenson will never win another championship again. I'd go for Kimi.

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spoken like someone who said he'd never win a race, win another race, win a championship.....

If it came down to a choice between Kimi and Jenson and it was down to me, I would take Kimi.

I don't even like Kimi, but... Kimi! :p :

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Originally Posted by Zico

Salary- Kimi has got to be the cheaper option...

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No way Kimi is the cheaper option, but I would prefer McLaren to pick Kimi. I think he still has raw pace like just a few others such as Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel. He always suited being in a McLaren over a Ferrari to me too, so would love to see him back there and drive like in 2005.

If they pick Bunsen, it comes down to two things - sponsorship and salary. Kimi not only hates dealing with sponsors with a passion and a vengeance, he's also very bad at it; while he also commands a higher salary.

In other words, Kimi's certainly the better driver when he's "on", but he's doubly the more expensive option. And that weighs against him.

Jenson I think....if McLaren had wanted Kimi they;d have signed him by now. Suggest the negotiations didn't suit either party.

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Originally Posted by Somebody

If they pick Bunsen, it comes down to two things - sponsorship and salary. Kimi not only hates dealing with sponsors with a passion and a vengeance, he's also very bad at it; while he also commands a higher salary.

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Nail. Head. Hit.

If the move is motivated only by getting the two fastest guys in the car its a no brainer, kimi, every time. But if "business" interests dictate terms then Jenson is at least 4 million cheaper and would work harder for his pennies than Kimi.

That said Kimi has more skill in his big toe than Jenson so I'd pick Mr Monotone over Mr whiney time and again.

Button will give the team leader no problems whatsoever and will give the team just enough of a push to get McLaren the WCC as well.

Kimi is decidedly quicker yet brings too much potential trouble--not to himself, but to the Hamiltons, er, the team.

To me Jenson is the best option. Kimi's too enigmatic, plus, Jenson is after about £7 million, which is very reasonable for a champion, whereas Kimi would probably want over £15 million, too much for an unreliable driver.

I think to say Jenson wouldn't bother Hamilton at all isn't quite right, but I do agree that whoever does better in the race, the other one will be close enough to back them up, unlike Kovalainen (no offence to Heikki, just the truth).

However the problem would be the car. No doubt it would lend itself more to Lewis, but if they make it easy to set up, then Jenson will find his groove too.

Kimi's desire to stay in F1 seems to fluctuate every week, whereas Jenson wants to race in F1 and only F1 for many years to come.

For me Jenson is the best option. He seems more motivated, works harder, is at least as marketable as the Finn, is the reigning world champion and he is cheaper. Besides, I can see a harmonious relations between him and Lewis. I don't know who said that that will be like Webber and Vettel, but I think that this is a great comparison. Lewis will be slightly faster, Jenson will be slightly more consistent, when one of them fails, the other will win. While with Kimi there will be no problems like with Alonso, but in my opinion he will try to beat Lewis in outright pace and if he fails - and this is very likely - he will lose motivation and fade, a bit like in 2008 against Massa.

aslong as Kimi can go to Merc, Jenson. he is cheaper, more marketable and the british superteam would be there! Jenson would lose a touch of rep IMO over time as Lewis outdoes him (i could be wrong but i doubt it) but Jenson would be a good TEAM option.

of course I would pick kimi, Everyone in the world except Button's Dad would pick kimi.

But it looks like its Button, and it came down to money. Seems like Kimi's agent really was asking too much from folks and has now lost out. If he goes to brawn it would be a severe paycut from probably what he would have gotten from Mclaren or toyota ( who might just have left after failing to get him as part of their decision)

But Mclaren now have a decent lineup with a strong driver and another that should do much better than Kovy. I still don;t rate button that high, but there si no denying that in a good car hie can produce good results.

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Originally Posted by Zico

As above.. If you were Martin Whitmarsh and had the choice of choosing either of them as your No2 for 2010 who would you go for?

Outright pace/Ability- I'd probably put Kimi just ahead, Jenson 8.5/10, Kimi 9/10

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Something like that.

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Originally Posted by Zico

Consistancy- Probably Jenson.

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Judging from the latter half of the season? Hell no.

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Originally Posted by Zico

Marketability- Jenson as the current WDC must win there..

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An all British team, Jenson and obviously having #1 on the car.

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Originally Posted by Zico

Salary- Kimi has got to be the cheaper option...

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No way in hell. Kimi has been the highest paid driver for a very long time, and will still be next season, whether he drives or not.

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Originally Posted by Zico

Dedication- Kimi seems to lose interest when he hasn't got the car, Jenson wins..

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The man who drove with diesel in his eyes, the man who was on fire... Compared to the Jenson who could not push since half the season and has time and time again whined about people ahead of him being slower and now being able to pass them, is that dedication?

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Originally Posted by Zico

There are other aspects to be considered too, like nationality.. why not have a Scandinavian interest in your team?

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An all British team is more marketable. Very few would relate to a Finnish driver compared to an English one.

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Originally Posted by Zico

Overall, Kimi just edges it for me.. Your thoughts?

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Overall, we all know that Hamilton will decimate Button next year. With Kimi they would be close, which would, I am sure, give Hamilton problems.
So it's a wise choice. FA & FM are a far stronger pair, although I think McLaren will get the WCC next year because of Jenson not being (ever) able to outpace and outrace Hamilton (and political problems in Ferrari).

Jenson has made the biggest mistake of his career.

According to James Allen, Kimi gets €10m for Ferrari if he races for another team next year, but €17m if he sits on his bee-hind.

Perhaps part of the reason he and his Mr 10%s have been playing hardball - if he needs over £6m to stand still money-wise, I can see why the offers didn't prove attractive.

Well its still just speculation as it stands.. the more I think of it, the less likely I think it will happen. It really would be a big mistake on Jensons part.

Bernie also thinks he's just "sparring" http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/...ng-ecclestone/

well in that case Kimi take the 17million and rally that Grande punto for 12 months and enjoy life.No sponsors to satisfy either!!

I would have loved to see Kimi in a McLaren once again, but if it doesn't happen, then too bad! My mouth is watering at the thought of Button being Mr. #2 for 2010. Kind of like the pairing over at Ferrari. Alonso is going to beat down on Massa, sadly, just as Hamilton is going to embarrass Button.

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Originally Posted by gloomyDAY

I would have loved to see Kimi in a McLaren once again, but if it doesn't happen, then too bad! My mouth is watering at the thought of Button being Mr. #2 for 2010. Kind of like the pairing over at Ferrari. Alonso is going to beat down on Massa, sadly, just as Hamilton is going to embarrass Button.

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Just for the fun of it, imagine if in Brazil the two drivers fighting for the WDC are Massa and Button...

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Originally Posted by F1boat

Just for the fun of it, imagine if in Brazil the two drivers fighting for the WDC are Massa and Button...

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Joo fawkin' edeot! Joo browk mai hed! :D

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Originally Posted by Powered by Cosworth

Jenson will never win another championship again. I'd go for Kimi.

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Aside from my fellow "Jenson's Barmy Army" people, his father and close friends, everyone thought that Jenson would never win another grand prix.

He won SIX more and is the new world champion.

And since when did winning MORE than one title sudenly become so vital? A driver that wins the world championship once or more is in a very select group and there isno difference.

Personally even if he wins it again it will never reach the heights of this first one.

I'd rather see Jenson winning grands prix although I know the title is automatically a driver's aim.

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Originally Posted by gloomyDAY

I would have loved to see Kimi in a McLaren once again, but if it doesn't happen, then too bad! My mouth is watering at the thought of Button being Mr. #2 for 2010. Kind of like the pairing over at Ferrari. Alonso is going to beat down on Massa, sadly, just as Hamilton is going to embarrass Button.

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Jenson will be equal number one in the team not number 2. The number on HIS car will be number ONE.

And just as people like you never thought Jenson could win another grand prix let alone the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP, so you will be very wrong in 2010.

You misjudged Jenson before and you continue to do that despite reality - thats termed cognitive dissonance. You are forgiven.

Saint, do you honestly believe that Jenson is on the same level as Lewis?

I think you are forgetting who Lewis is (as much as I dislike the guy) he was the one who put Alonso to shame in his first season...
Do you think he will let Button beat him?
Clearly one of the reasons they choose Button over Kimi is because they know that Button will not pose any significant threat to Lewis (and to his mental health).

But we could argue till the cows come home. We'll see the slaughtering next seasons. Many people will cry foul when the reigning champion is being decimated.

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Originally Posted by Koz

I think you are forgetting who Lewis is (as much as I dislike the guy) he was the one who put Alonso to shame in his first season...

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And since 2007 Lewis has only gotten better.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Jenson will be equal number one in the team not number 2. The number on HIS car will be number ONE.

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You're an irascible old flake. Do you really think that McLaren will really favor both of their drivers equally? Nuts! There has always been a clear #1 and #2 in their garage. Even when Princesa Alonsita was at McLaren his status dropped to a support role once Lewis started getting the better of him on the track.

Bunsen will be riding shotgun while Hammy does all the driving.

I think that saying Button will be decimated is a little over the top. Lets look at this, yes Lewis will be faster along with Alonso, Vettel & maybe Massa, but in a car that should be very good he can easily be the best of the rest & watch the other three fight & take each other out. I think in a McLaren he will easily be a match for Kubica, Rosberg, Heidfeld & Webber and that could be where the fight for the championship is. I think Alonso & Massa will ruin each others championship chances & Lewis & Vettel's fight could put alot of stress on two youngs sets of shoulders that they may or may not be able to cope with.

Being the best isn't always about speed, look at schumi, sure he had buckets of talent but didn't stand over & above the rest until he joined Ferrari & they moulded the team around him.

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Originally Posted by Koz

Saint, do you honestly believe that Jenson is on the same level as Lewis?

I think you are forgetting who Lewis is (as much as I dislike the guy) he was the one who put Alonso to shame in his first season...
Do you think he will let Button beat him?
Clearly one of the reasons they choose Button over Kimi is because they know that Button will not pose any significant threat to Lewis (and to his mental health).

But we could argue till the cows come home. We'll see the slaughtering next seasons. Many people will cry foul when the reigning champion is being decimated.

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Both drivers have won championships. Proven race winners and anyone can find reason to criticize either.

Do I think that Hamilton will allow Button to beat him? When Button beats him as when he beats Button, neither will have that choice.

Going to Mclaren Button will be at a disadvantage - but he has been through worse, such as years in uncompetitive machinery.

Jenson goes to Woking fully aware what to expect and what is expected - it will be a remarkable 2010 season I think.

Jenson as always will do his best.

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Originally Posted by gloomyDAY

You're an irascible old flake. Do you really think that McLaren will really favor both of their drivers equally? Nuts! There has always been a clear #1 and #2 in their garage. Even when Princesa Alonsita was at McLaren his status dropped to a support role once Lewis started getting the better of him on the track.

Bunsen will be riding shotgun while Hammy does all the driving.

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You are sorely mistaken about Alonso's treatment. It was that the team did not automatically consider HIM above Hamilton and that Hamilton was able to keep pace that upset him. Nothing to do with unequal equipment.

And the team these days is managed by Whitmarsh. If as the season wears on one driver is favored because they are doing better, that is to be expected.

I expect Jenson to be treated fairly by Mclaren.

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Originally Posted by F1boat

Just for the fun of it, imagine if in Brazil the two drivers fighting for the WDC are Massa and Button...

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.................and Massa runs over a Brazil nut and sends it into Bunsens visor, and Bunsen then runs the car into a tyre barrier. :D

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Originally Posted by macksrallye

I think that saying Button will be decimated is a little over the top. Lets look at this, yes Lewis will be faster along with Alonso, Vettel & maybe Massa, but in a car that should be very good he can easily be the best of the rest & watch the other three fight & take each other out. I think in a McLaren he will easily be a match for Kubica, Rosberg, Heidfeld & Webber and that could be where the fight for the championship is. I think Alonso & Massa will ruin each others championship chances & Lewis & Vettel's fight could put alot of stress on two youngs sets of shoulders that they may or may not be able to cope with.

Being the best isn't always about speed, look at schumi, sure he had buckets of talent but didn't stand over & above the rest until he joined Ferrari & they moulded the team around him.

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Yeah!! SchM was just hamming it up at Benneton.

And Mark will just be an also ran next year. :rolleyes:

As a matter of interest - is Freo your team?

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

Yeah!! SchM was just hamming it up at Benneton.

And Mark will just be an also ran next year. :rolleyes:

As a matter of interest - is Freo your team?

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I'm not saying SchM wasn't good before Ferrari just that he wasn't driving a different race to everyone else yet. It's a little like Loeb in the WRC, Citroen (the team & the car) are built around him hence his dominance.

Mark won't be an also ran, he's one of those drivers that has the capability to win on his day, just like Button, Heidfeld & what I think Rosberg will be like. Lewis, Alonso, Kimi, Massa (still a question mark for me) & Vettel are those rare talents that have the ability to win anyday of the week & there are some days when nobody else should bother turning up as these guys are untouchable.



Oh, and no, Freo is not my Team...

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Personally even if he wins it again it will never reach the heights of this first one.

I'd rather see Jenson winning grands prix although I know the title is automatically a driver's aim.

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Even his first one was one of the most anti-climactic title wins ever!

race wins? Oh yeah! yes he will be winning lots of races next year if he is a team-mate of Hamilton.......you think?

Kimi