Looks like that date will decide more than we'll ever know...
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...03090718.shtml
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Looks like that date will decide more than we'll ever know...
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...03090718.shtml
I'll be surprised if Toyota are still in F1 next year, everything is pointing towards an exit. Kobayashi might find a seat at Lotus or somewhere though, he deserves another chance.
My birthday....?
No, my birthday!Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY
:p
ClarkFan
It is being reported by Japanese newspaper Mainichi Daily News that the Toyota board have decided to pull out of Formula 1
“Toyota Motor Corp., the world’s greatest motor racing, Formula One (F1) has decided to withdraw as far as this year.”
http://www.formula1blogger.com/2009/...cement-sunday/
Mercedes were being rumored to do the same 6 months ago, only for them to go on and buy into a 2nd team. :D
I have a pint of ale that say they close shop.
I don't really know what to make of this. We've known all along that they haven't had their budget secured for next year and could theoretically pull out at this meeting, the rough date of which has been known for ages. Yet they've been adamant they're going nowhere. Maybe they just haven't told the team either.
I'm definitely expecting a large cut in the budget. I'm not expecting them to pull out, but I wouldn't be shocked if they did.
I suppose Toyota is the biggest car manufacturer, bigger than Mercedes for a reason, they sure must be doing something right.Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
All the teams are taking a huge budget cut next season, no need for all that money with all the limitations in place, wind tunnel and CFD are limited to about a 3rd of what they were, in season testing is banned, 8 engines/driver for the whole season and so on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki Katz
200 millions will be most they would need even with Kimi like driver salaries.
Maybe Kobayashi doing so well in Abu Dhabi will be enough to keep the Toyota Board happy, and than there's Toyoda being a motorsport enthusiast, so not everything is lost.
they will be back for 2010
the economic tide is turning
and they will stay in precisely for the fact that Honda pulled out and actually embarrassed themselves for leaving a championship team for nothing. If toyota pulls out, there will be a hal dozen suitors to buy them and I fully expect that car to be on the podium next year.
Toyota are set to publish quarterly results that are again in the red whilst Honda hasn't actually made a loss this recession. The pressure is intense not only to cut costs but to be seen to be doing so especially when Toyota is going to have to permanently reduce its production capacity soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
Where are half a dozen suitors going to come from? The same ones that pushed Honda into selling to the team management? The same ones that crowded BMW? There isn't anyone out there with the money to buy into a team these days.
The only thing keeping Toyota in is the cost of winding down their team in Germany. If they can't find a buyer (and I doubt they will) they might be happy just finding a partner to share costs with. Thats the most optimistic scenario I think.
Toyota is going to bail.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80002
What a disgrace! All that time and money and not a single win.
Being the biggest volume road car manufacturer, and being quickest on the track are two entirely different things.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
I've mixed feelings about their impending departure (OK it isn't confirmed yet, but no smoke without fire and all that), good news for the traditional kind of F1 team that exists purely to go racing rather than as a car manufacturer/energy drink/Indian billionaire's marketing vehicle, but I hope this trend isn't going to allow the FIA to sneak their spec-engine wet dream in through the back door...oh well at least Max isn't around anymore!
Although this means that if Notts County F1 can't come up with the goods we'll only have 12 teams next year instead of 13 :(
Such a pity - Max was right after all.
Uh oh. You're gonna get banned! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Devote
Could we get a poll in here to see how many of us think toyota will stay and how many think they will go?
Would be interesting to see the mass consensus .
Whatever happens with F1 I sincerely hope they don't dissappear from international motorsport altogether. They have the capacity within their base in cologne to take on a WTCC or WRC/IRC campaign and that will probably cost them a hell of a lot less than F1 has, for one, you don't pay rally drivers, they pay to drive your car... don't they?
For a company not selling performance as a feature of their vehicle lineup, what's the point of racing? Surely not a single Camry was sold due to their motorsports efforts, but I bet some C-Classes were.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/sport/Mot...icle179081.ece
Toyota to quit F1
:confused:
http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,189...673022,00.htmlQuote:
Toyota Motor is expected to announce it is quitting Formula One, joining an exodus of Japanese automakers from the multi-million dollar sport due to the global economic crisis
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Toy...00911115433212
http://www.automotiveworld.com/news/...om-formula-one
Another car manufacturer walks away without any consideration to what it does to F1. Fortunately this will open the way for Sauber to remain in F1, so at least we'll have a decent team there.Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY
Camry? You mean Avensis? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Shifter
Camry? You mean Avensis? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Shifter
It's a shame for all those people who are about to lose their jobs at Toyota and Kamui Kobayashi who I really hope lands a race seat for next season in F1. However I can understand Toyota's decision, they must have spent billions (I don't think that is an exaggeration) and got a handful of podiums for their troubles. Of course they only have themselves to blame.
Still as one door closes and another opens, I hope Sauber have a good 2010 season.
If Toyota leave they'll be shutting down their factory and making hundreds redundant. I can't see a Ross Brawn or Peter Sauber coming along to save the team.. there's going to be massive job losses here.
I suppose to counteract that arguement would be to suggest that Mercedes haven't got a long history of being Shyte...in Formula One or making overweight, ugly, clunky, inefficient, pointless, environmentally-unfriendly and hopeless hybrid roadcars :p
Bye bye Toyota :wave:
I really feel for those who stand to lose their jobs, but Toyota's F1 programme must surely stand as a lesson to anybody who believes that money buys success. They never "got" F1, with decisions taking an age to filter through the board and a history of mediocre drivers on their books (I'm looking at you, Ralf).
Sad day for F1, good day for Sauber and Mr. Theissen who now probably doesn't have to get involved with touring cars or whatever...Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
As with Honda you wonder whether Toyota would be withdrawing if they were winning races. The "current severe economic realities" rather go hand in hand with the lack of success IMHO.
Ultimately this is what manufacturers do, and have done for years, where F1 is concerned. They come and go when circumstances suit them. Whether any of the new 2010 teams will be around for as long as Toyota were only time will tell.
Another F1 fan spouts off without any consideration of what an F1 programme does to the finances of a manufacturer.Quote:
Originally Posted by DexDexter
It's sad for Toyota and their employees but F1 just costs too much money and if it isn't helping to shift cars then there isn't much point in it.
Well, they could maintain presence in F1 using very little cash. They've got engines they could supply to teams. Why not link up with Sauber or something, wouldn't cost much and if it worked, they'd still get publicity? Obviously that would make too much sense. Same goes for BMW, they've got many engines that are useless now, why not keep in touch with F1 by supplying a team that is willing to pay for the engines? It would make a possible comeback much easier in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jan Yeo
Nice. :\
Losing 3 manufacturers in quick succession (and possibly Renault too in the future) isn't very good news but then losing Toyota is not that bad really.
Ugly looking cars, dull liveries, not enough ambition in the driver market and not winning anything inspite of all the money they had..I never warmed up to their F1 team (neither am I a huge fan of their road cars but atleast they try hard and succeed in that segment) but we do need some Japanese presence in F1 in the future.
To an extent that could be a factor but you must also remember these firms have made many, many people redundant in Japan and are under severe governement and union pressure to downsize while their profits plunge.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Right now F1 is an excess Toyota doesn't really need, because as other have said they concentrate on smaller cars/hybrids and that doesn't tie into F1 at all.
Still it doesn't come as a great surprise. Feel terrible for the staff in Cologne who i hope can find employment at another team, or someone can take over the facility for motorsport activity of some description. Also bad news for Koba who has already said he has no budget for GP2 in 2010
Aye, we all thought he would be nailed on for a drive in 2010 after sundays good showing, now theres a bit of doubt in it. Still though its great news for Thiessen and Sauber as this announcement means they've just got themselves back in, heres hoping that spending the last few months in limbo about their future has not hindered them when it comes to developing their 2010 car.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am evil Homer
What im concerned about though is Toyota signing the new Concorde Agreement back in the summer, does this announcement mean they are now in breach of that contract and that Ecclestone and the FIA have a good case to take to court?
I think that this proves something which many people felt. The corporate approach fails to deliver in Formula 1. We saw it with Toyota, we saw it with BMW and with Honda as well. Yes, Honda built that wonderful car which won the WDC and the WCC, but it was the small team of Brawn which guided it to success. I think that at the beginning of the season Rubens Barrichello admitted that the atmosphere in Brawn GP makes for the success, as it is different from the atmosphere in Honda. BMW were also more successful with "Williams" than as a manu team. I think that this should show manufacturers that it is better for them to ally themselves with racing teams with racing thinking, like Mercedes did with McLaren and Ross Brawn. And don't point me Ferrari and Renault. We all know that Ferrari is pure racing team and Renault is the old Benetton.
That's a fair point :up: but there is always pressure on a company like Toyota to justify the expense of something like F1. That pressure will have been increasing since 2002 given their comparative lack of success.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am evil Homer
Whether it was economics, or their wish to direct money into their road cars, there was always going to be a tipping point at which the Toyota board said 'no more'. Had things been different that may have been after they had won races and championships.
:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by I am evil Homer
Wag! :eek: :)Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY
It seems that way:Quote:
Originally Posted by DazzlaF1
"The news is going to cost Toyota a great deal of money. It will not only have to lay off its huge staff in Cologne, but will also have to reach a financial settlement with the Formula One group as it had committed to staying in F1 until the end of 2012. There are now likely to be discussions about how much money Toyota will have it pay in compensation to get out of its commitments made when it signed the new Concorde Agreement."
Source: Joe Saward ( http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/...firms-pullout/ )
However, it does make the team more attractive to any potential buyers, if there are some out there.
Are the engines made in Cologne? Coudl someone take that side over?
Hardly a huge shock - a perfect example of how not to run a F1 team. Lean/Six Sigma may work with their Manufacturing, but is far too slow for Motorsport, when instant decisions are often needed. A perfect example of why Manufacturers are only in it for themselves, and not the sport.
Just what on earth were they meant to be promoting though? Are there any 'Sporting' Toyota cars?
I have heard that when a team doesn't have guys with racing experience running a racing team (see BMW) that team's expectations will never be met.
The only problem now is engines. I'm not sure that four suppliers will be enough.
Should be - Merc can supply 4 teams (McLaren, Brawn, FI and 1 more), Renault are still there, Cosworth is powering the new teams + Williams. All depends if anyone wants/is allowed to use Ferrari engines.
But it seems absured that BMW and Toyota have the facilities that could be lost.