French F1 drivers

Yesterday I was in a conversation about the amount of German drivers on the grid at the moment and remembered how many solid French drivers were in the F1 field from late 60's through to early 80's.

There was Depailler, Jabouille, Arnoux, Prost, Laffite, Jarier, Beltoise, Pironi and Cervert. All of them bar Jarier were race winners.

Is this an example of how good the French oil companies were in sponsoring young talent or was there a particularly high interest in F1 from France at the time?

Their record as far as French drivers in that period go was quite extraordinary considering there was a similarly high number of Italian drivers entering F1 throughout the 80's, and with one or two exceptions, they were awful.

Its all swings and roundabouts isn't it. Back in '94 there were 6 British drivers in F1 and now; 2.

As you say back in the day French drivers were top of the pile, through the 90's their numbers remained high but the results stopped coming and now we have just a handful of french drivers in or around F1 and, without being unfair, none are potential WDC's IMO.

Not to forget Tambay, Panis and Alesi.....

It was a great time for drivers from France in additon to having French cars they had a great scholarship going with Winfield at circuits such as Magny Cours.

Alain Prost openly attests his move beyond karts to this system without which he could never have done so.

Jumper Jarier did not win any grands prix because he was let down by the cars he drove. In 1975 in the beautiful UOP Shadow DN5 he would have won the Brazilian Grand Prix and, in 1978 driving the Lotus 78 at the Canadian Grand Prix he would have won too.

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Originally Posted by Sonic

Its all swings and roundabouts isn't it. Back in '94 there were 6 British drivers in F1 and now; 2.

As you say back in the day French drivers were top of the pile, through the 90's their numbers remained high but the results stopped coming and now we have just a handful of french drivers in or around F1 and, without being unfair, none are potential WDC's IMO.

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But while thee are 2 British drivers today, just look at what they are achieving - both are drivers that win grands prix and Jenson winning the championship will make it two years in a row that different drivers from the same country have done so. It has been a long time since that was last done.

Elf were particularly active when it came to supporting French motorsport. They used the Winfield Racing School to identify the best drivers, then supported them in F3 and F2 and on into F1 in many cases.

I don't remember another company supporting motorsport on a national basis in the same way. In Italy drivers such as Riccardo Patrese and Elio de Angelis were sponsored by Parmalat for a time, but this was not part of a larger program.

Re: French drivers - Elf scholarship system

Re: German drivers - luck of the draw.

Vettel brought up by Red Bull

Sutil raced for Collin Kolles in F3, Kolles was team manager at Spyker/Midland

Glock was a journeyman driver who got lucky break with Toyota

Heidfeld was brought up by McLaren/Mercedes

Rosberg is errr.... German by birth!

Elf did not restrict their support to French drivers.

Westley Barber won a place on the scholarship and went on to win the championship (1998 I think).

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Originally Posted by wedge

Re: German drivers - luck of the draw.

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Luck or... skill in driver management? :p : I wonder if the reason behind is that the Germans have much better connections than many other nations and maybe also backing. Someone like Willi Weber has certainly been helpful in Hülkenberg's career progression. And all the examples you brought, show that they have good contacts.

If we compare contemporary young Brits and Germans, then somehow all major German hopes seem to make it into F1, while Brits with the exception of Hamilton have been guided away from F1. For instance former Euro F3 champions Green and di Resta seem to be stuck in DTM and in 2009 there wasn't even any British driver in GP2!

In the 70's besides Elf program also the increasing influence of French teams probably helped in getting good drives to get careers off the ground, like Jabouille and Arnoux at Renault. In the 70's Frenchmen won five! (73-77) European Formula 2 titles in a row. :p :

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Originally Posted by Sonic

Elf did not restrict their support to French drivers.

Westley Barber won a place on the scholarship and went on to win the championship (1998 I think).

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Damon Hill stopped bike racing and crossed the channel to pursue the 4-wheeled variety.

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Originally Posted by jens

If we compare contemporary young Brits and Germans, then somehow all major German hopes seem to make it into F1, while Brits with the exception of Hamilton have been guided away from F1. For instance former Euro F3 champions Green and di Resta seem to be stuck in DTM and in 2009 there wasn't even any British driver in GP2!

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Mercedes-Benz F3 backing.

2MB have a conflict of interest. One minute Brundell (sic) are slagging off team(s) and the next minute they're having to suck up to the team owners to pimp out their drivers.

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Originally Posted by jens

In the 70's besides Elf program also the increasing influence of French teams probably helped in getting good drives to get careers off the ground, like Jabouille and Arnoux at Renault. In the 70's Frenchmen won five! (73-77) European Formula 2 titles in a row. :p :

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Because Elf was owned by the government partnered Renault and other French companies.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

But while thee are 2 British drivers today, just look at what they are achieving - both are drivers that win grands prix and Jenson winning the championship will make it two years in a row that different drivers from the same country have done so. It has been a long time since that was last done.

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Actually, if Button prevails to win the Championship, it will be the first time ever for 2 drivers from the same country (England) winning back to back titles. I am assuming Scotland and England are different countries,
although there is only one British GP. I don't wish to start any arguments about British vs English, Scottish drivers, but I have seen statistics presented in this way. For example, Autosport's list of GP wins by country.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Elf were particularly active when it came to supporting French motorsport. They used the Winfield Racing School to identify the best drivers, then supported them in F3 and F2 and on into F1 in many cases.

I don't remember another company supporting motorsport on a national basis in the same way. In Italy drivers such as Riccardo Patrese and Elio de Angelis were sponsored by Parmalat for a time, but this was not part of a larger program.

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My memory is a bit fuzzy here but - there was an Italian count who was patron to Ronnie Peterson - and the same with Riccardo Patrese??

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Originally Posted by jens

Luck or... skill in driver management? :p : I wonder if the reason behind is that the Germans have much better connections than many other nations and maybe also backing. Someone like Willi Weber has certainly been helpful in Hülkenberg's career progression. And all the examples you brought, show that they have good contacts.

If we compare contemporary young Brits and Germans, then somehow all major German hopes seem to make it into F1, while Brits with the exception of Hamilton have been guided away from F1. For instance former Euro F3 champions Green and di Resta seem to be stuck in DTM and in 2009 there wasn't even any British driver in GP2!

In the 70's besides Elf program also the increasing influence of French teams probably helped in getting good drives to get careers off the ground, like Jabouille and Arnoux at Renault. In the 70's Frenchmen won five! (73-77) European Formula 2 titles in a row. :p :

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It is remarkable that there have been so many British drivers and that the quality is so high despite two only in f1 today.

There has never been a time when British drivers have been supported at all. In fact I recall down the years the constant lament in the press that there was no support.

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Originally Posted by D28

Actually, if Button prevails to win the Championship, it will be the first time ever for 2 drivers from the same country (England) winning back to back titles. I am assuming Scotland and England are different countries,
although there is only one British GP. I don't wish to start any arguments about British vs English, Scottish drivers, but I have seen statistics presented in this way. For example, Autosport's list of GP wins by country.

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I did not distinguish between British drivers regardless of their ethnic descent - they are all Brits.

But you are correct that it will be two Englishmen that will win consecutive titles.

And imagine that it would have coincided with a year with no British Grand Prix - it really is bad enough that there is no French Grand Prix right now!

My favorite French driver of the period was Jacques Laffite :-]

My favorite French team was Ligier-Matra especially when Patrick Depailler was teammate to Laffite.

I also liked Jabouille and Arnoux at Renault.

At least there is one French driver now in Grosjean, it has been sad for them not to have anyone since Franck Montagny, am I right?

Well as for the British drivers, at the start of last season there were 4, and with DC's retirement and Super Aguri folding we are down to two, but the two who are left aren't bad :p

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Originally Posted by woody2goody

At least there is one French driver now in Grosjean, it has been sad for them not to have anyone since Franck Montagny, am I right?

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Bourdais.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

My memory is a bit fuzzy here but - there was an Italian count who was patron to Ronnie Peterson - and the same with Riccardo Patrese??

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Count Ghughi Zanon certainly helped fund Ronnie's career and was a "patron" for a number of other drivers as well. From the little I've read about him it seems he was a wealthy enthusiast who spend time around F1 and was one of the "good guys".

As for any connection with Riccardo, I'm not too sure. A few years ago someone mentioned Zanon may have helped with an engine, or engines but it was all very vague, and not something Riccardo recalled decades after the event. He did remember something about a watch though, but as a collector perhaps that sticks in his mind more readily.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

There has never been a time when British drivers have been supported at all. In fact I recall down the years the constant lament in the press that there was no support.

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Remember something called Racing for Britain? It supported a number of British drivers including Jonathan Palmer and Martin Brundle.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Count Ghughi Zanon certainly helped fund Ronnie's career and was a "patron" for a number of other drivers as well. From the little I've read about him it seems he was a wealthy enthusiast who spend time around F1 and was one of the "good guys".

As for any connection with Riccardo, I'm not too sure. A few years ago someone mentioned Zanon may have helped with an engine, or engines but it was all very vague, and not something Riccardo recalled decades after the event. He did remember something about a watch though, but as a collector perhaps that sticks in his mind more readily.

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Thanks - yes Patrese is something of an avid collector also of model trains which I am sure you know!

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Remember something called Racing for Britain? It supported a number of British drivers including Jonathan Palmer and Martin Brundle.

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Oh yes! I do remember now, I had forgotten about that.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Remember something called Racing for Britain? It supported a number of British drivers including Jonathan Palmer and Martin Brundle.

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They tried to revive it a couple of years ago but it died a death due to lack of funding.