http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mot...P-F1-team.html
Q: will we seen a new Brawn sports carQuote:
Mercedes-Benz is set to enlarge its footprint in Formula One by becoming a shareholder in Jenson Button's Brawn GP team, The Daily Telegraph understands.
Quote:
Mercedes to continue its relationship with McLaren – although they will no longer produce road cars together
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78399
Mercedes set to buy into Brawn GP
By Jonathan Noble
Monday, September 7th 2009, 08:03 GMT
Jenson Button, Brawn, Hungarian GPBrawn GP's Formula 1 future is poised for a major boost, with Mercedes-Benz close to a deal to take equity in the team.
With the world championship leaders already having secured sponsorship funding for the next few years, as revealed by AUTOSPORT last month, the team's outlook now looks even better following discussions with the German car manufacturer.
Reports first emerged about the plans this morning in The Daily Telegraph, and sources have confirmed to AUTOSPORT that talks are at an advanced stage for the car company to take a shareholding in the team.
It comes on the back of Mercedes-Benz's increased profile as a customer engine supplier over the past season - with the team set to provide power-units to McLaren, Force India, Brawn and, perhaps, Red Bull Racing in 2010.
The move is not, however, an attempt by Mercedes-Benz to move away from its long-standing commitment to partner McLaren - and it is instead believed to be part of the car manufacturer's attempt to increase its presence in F1.
A McLaren spokesman told AUTOSPORT that the team had no qualms about Mercedes-Benz's plans for expanding its involvement with its rivals in the sport.
"Mercedes-Benz's engine supply contract with McLaren is a very long-standing one - it's in its 15th consecutive year, in fact - and it will continue to run for many years to come," said the spokesman.
"However, we're supportive of our partner's plans regarding engine supply of other teams in Formula 1, and we were delighted earlier this year that a Mercedes-Benz engine supply deal was able to be done with Brawn, thereby saving that team from likely extinction.
"Force India, too, has blossomed as a result of its engine supply/engineering consultancy collaboration with Mercedes-Benz and McLaren - as Giancarlo Fisichella's impressive second place in the recent Belgian Grand Prix showed all too clearly.
"Both McLaren and Mercedes-Benz remain extremely satisfied with our Formula 1 collaboration, which has netted two drivers' world championships and one constructors' world championship as well as dozens of grand prix victories.
"As ever, we'll be aiming to add to that win tally together at this weekend's Italian Grand Prix - although we never under-estimate our opposition and the competition will undoubtedly be tough."
Mercedes-Benz itself denied that the plan was for a full-blown buyout of Brawn, but did not rule out an equity-type deal.
"It's our policy not to comment on rumours and we want to point out that we have longstanding contracts with McLaren," a spokesperson for the company told The Daily Telegraph.
Mercedes-Benz is poised to confirm its engine plans for 2010 at the Italian Grand Prix, although there is fresh uncertainty now surrounding whether or not Red Bull Racing will make the switch from Renault to Mercedes-Benz.
Although the deal had appeared to be all but done in recent weeks, sources suggest that the contract has not yet been signed - and it is not impossible that the team could actually stick with its current partner for another year.
Williams is looking at changing its engine supply deal for next year, having asked Toyota to be released from its contract, and had been expected to switch to Renault. However, there remains a chance the Grove-based outfit could be in the running for a Mercedes-Benz deal if Red Bull Racing opts not to take it.
Interesting move.
There were rumors about this and now it is official. I wonder what triggered this move though.
Perhaps they want to partner as their F1 strategy and RBR said "no, engine only" so they strengthened the relationship with Brawn instead. In turn RBR, if they get a Merc power plant will be given an inferior version ;)
Mercedes-Benz as a technology partner - exellent for Brawn GP. Equity partner for MB? Brilliant!
What company would not want to secure under contract the services of the best race strategist and one of the best general minds in motor racing?
This is about Ross Brawn - nothing else.
Although..... the MB team have also noticed that Jenson, given the tools, is a winning driver. What chance, especially if he wins the world drivers title in the next few weeks, he is one day driving for the great Woking team? I would say high indeed.
An aside here - it seems that if Red Bull decide to stay with Renault then Williams is in line for the Mercedes Benz.
I hope that Red Bull remain with Renault because partnering with Williams would be even stronger for the auto manufacturer than with FI.
Maybe, Rosberg would be part of a deal and with Hulkenberg, Mercedes will have a direct line to two German drivers, one of them the best up and coming driver around and soon to be GP2 champion in his first year.
What I find has the most mileage in a Williams tie-up, is the benefits of learning about the alternative KERS system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Devote
What say a road car that makes use of both an electronic and mechanical energy storage system?
Plus, they get Nico Rosberg driving a Mercedes powered car....
Mercedes has teh right to supply 3 teams + McLaren, so no need for RedBull to stay with Renault.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Devote
But if they supply Mclaren, Force India and Brawn then they have to choose between Red Bull and Williams or rather Red Bull has to decide.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
That is why I would like Williams to be the 3rd team.
Latest reports claim that Mercedes will buy 75% of Brawn. Is it really wise for Brawn to sell the majority? We remember what Honda did. Boards can decide to leave F1 with a very short notice.
At the moment I think Mercedes are getting very good ROI from F1. They are staunch supporters of FOTA, have helped two teams on the brink, have been the first manufacturer to win with KERS (a big kick in the teeth for rivals BMW).Quote:
Originally Posted by DexDexter
They are the good guys of F1.
That's a great move for both Brawn and Mercedes.
Brawn (and Fry) took over the Honda F1 team for nothing, they also got the team's finances assured for this season and now Mercedes are set to buy 75% of it (supposedly for quite a lot of money) and insure the future of the team.
After only one year of ownership Brawn will have probably won the championship, will own 25% of a team with a future in F1 and become rich in the process! This looks even too good to be true.
OK, but what does Mercedes do with their 40% share of McLaren? I would definitely not want to see another 2-team tango - the RBR/STR tie-up is already yielding one team whose role is defined as "junior." It would also be disheartening to see McLaren fall on hard times the way Williams has.
I would really rather not see major manufacturers owning teams. Provide engines/drive systems? Good. Add major sponsorship? Fine. But owning teams outright seems to only end in tears.
ClarkFan
This is certainly making BMW look like idiots, and I'm not talking about the F1 team but about the board that decided to pull the plug on the F1 operation, or maybe they will change their tune by the end of the season?!Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
Imagine Mercedes would have backed Sauber to take over BMW F1! I'm more of a BMW fan than Mercedes but I would have still been laughing for ages.
Why would Mercedes want a majority stake in Brawn GP? It does not make sense.
Mercedes-Benz is ideally set up with one of the top teams in motor racing. It has a long time partner with Mansour Onjeh's TAG and is supplying the team leading the f1 championship.
Also, it is being wooed by other good teams and is clearly the engine of the series.
This is the traditional peak of the silly season - Italian Grand Prix at Monza - so until Norbert Haug make the announcement, in which case I would question his sanity, this is all someone with nothing to do in the press making up story lines.
Because they always wanted to do that with McLaren but were refused?! Just my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Devote
Maybe they have grown tired of some of the shenanigans at McLaren? Are they the same team without Ron Dennis at the helm? Does someone see greener pastures in the future for Mercedes in F1 under the direction of Ross Brawn?
Mercedes may be buying in, but it's supposedly with Abu Dhabi money, so who is really buying into the team?
The issue of who pays is at the core.
How does Mercedes own 75% of a team when the money is from Abu Dahbi? It is a gift? Has Mercedes become an employee of the investor?
This would place Mercedes in a curious position in that it would be even weaker than at Mclaren.
For years, Mercedes has had the association with Mansour Onjeh. He has credibility through his finding of the TAG company that engineered the Mclaren Porsche success and this was carried on to MB.
Mercedes are not about to turn their back on Mclaren or Onjeh. Why? It does not make sense.
By all means form a technology partnership with Brawn - it was the MBHEP center that saved Brawn based on trust at the end of 2008.
The Mercedes engine people trusted Ross because of his credibility based on his achievements and, they are not about to turn their backs on a tried and tested winning partnership, Mclaren, for what is a green project that includes risks long past reduced.
If they were to, they realize the sacrifice it would entail and therefore they would lose.
I cannot believe that the story is correct.
In a way Mercedes and Mclaren splitting up would be good for F1, since Mclaren is such a strong organisation that it really doesn't need Mercedes to be competitive and Merc moving to Brawn would quarantee that they will be strong in the future. We would have more competitive cars then. The possibility o a pull out for "strategy reasons" is still there, however, and that's why I don't like these car companies buying majority stakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelred5
Who cares where the money comes from?Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelred5
Companies almost always buy with money from banks or other investors, they don't have a safe full with money just for the case when they decide to buy something.
To begin with, a corporate leak of this magnitude is very unlike Mercedes Benz. Even a wet behind the ears coporate financier would view this as clumsy and amateurish to say the elast.
It really does not make operational or financial sense. The cultural strength contained in the Mclaren Mercedes racing relationahip and everything that it entails is not created either easily or guaranteed.
And wherethe money comes from is fundamental because it defines the relationship. "An Abu Dhabi investor".......
Until Norbert Haug or someone from the board of MB makes this announcement I will not believe this story.
It would be the worst example of coprorate finance incompetence and I would be really disappointed in Mercedes Benz from that aspect.
Agree it is in fact pretty much in existent at this moment, be it because they refused to sell a majority package to Mercedes or rather and more likely because the Spygate and Liegate affairs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Devote
Worth to mention that McLaren Automotive has just revealed their first 'super'car and it does not feature a Mercedes engine and the SLR McLaren Mercedes is to be their last common project in this domain.
IMO the ties between McLaren and Mercedes have been loosened during the past few years and Mercedes is looking to have their say in a proper way in f1 by really being in control of a team.
I actually think now is a good time to buy. I reckon there is money to be made buying BEFORE a championship win in a recession, and then selling, perhaps back to Honda??? when the markets are better.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Ker-ching anyone?????
Is there a source for that, all the bits I've read about the new car do not state the engine manufacturer.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
You are right, everyone with money at hand or a possibility to get a good loan for investment is out there investing right now that the economic trend is reversing.Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
"Powering the MP4-12C is McLaren's own amidships mounted 3.8-litre V8 engine called the M838T which revs up to a heady 8,500rpm and features twin-turbochargers for that extra oomph. With around 600bhp and 600Nm of torque on tap and an estimated weight of about 1.3-tonnes, 100km/h should come up in three and a bit seconds and the car shouldn't have any problem cracking the 300km/h mark."Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
Here's the engine:
http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-20...e-1280x960.jpg
It's not a Mercedes engine.
And the car:
http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-20...p-1280x960.jpg
Looks similar to the old McLaren F1, restyled with some Ferrari and Audi R8 shapes. Also teh front light look similar to the Porsche Boxster ones.
A bit bland for a car worth a smaller fortune.
^ I want one of those!
Yep F1 looks really good after all this time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Brockman
Could it also be that Mercedes sees more future value, cost effectiveness and focus with a more pure racing operation in Brackley. McLaren isn't exactly known for living on the down low. Maybe Mercedes isn't comfortable funding a Mclaren keen on competing head to head in the automotive supercar market.
Mercedes traditionally has the image of a very conservative company, and McLaren has brought a lot of controversy with the racing operation over the past couple seasons. Not that Ross Brawn's racing history has been devoid of suspicion and controversy by any means, however I still suspect the whole industrial espionage saga wore very thin on the Mercedes side of the equation. Full control of a team already proven to operate leaner and more efficiently than the existing relationship, with a Master at the helm of your operation sounds pretty damn good to me.
I'm very interested to see how McLaren functions in a budget constrained racing environment in the coming seasons..
Is Mercedes funding Mclaren?Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelred5
At least 40% of it is theirs so 40% of the funds of the teams is theirs too(no matter where it comes from), so yeah they are funding the team, not to mention they supply the engine, transmission and KERS!Quote:
Originally Posted by DexDexter
Even if it was that way the research certainly did cost a fortune to Mercedes.Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
If possible, from these pictures it is uglier than the current "Lotus".
Yech!
"If it aint a Ferrari, I'm not drivin' it!"
I agree, BMW's roadcar division is doing a lot better than expected at the start of the credit crunch, and as with Honda BMW's decision to ditch F1 was seen very positively by the markets. Given the constant budgetary instability in F1 (Build a V10, nope, make it a V8, invest $100 million this year for KERS, build another $100 million dollar windtunnel, sack 80% of your staff to ensure budgets drop below $100 million, sorry scrap that and spend whatever you like again, no I meant at 1990s levels) it makes sense to divest ownership in any teams and if continued participation in F1 is a requirement then merely supplying engines is probably the best and cheapest/lowest risk option.Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
Mercedes buying into another team does not make sense, where does the money come from? What is the sense in investing money into a sport where Mercedes already has a high profile and market recognition? Why be twice as exposed to the foibles of F1 and the FIA, after all Brawn/Honda/BAR is/was one of the few teams to be banned from races for technical irregularities on one of Mosley's little power trips.
Then again, this is a company that cocked up spectacularly by buying Chrysler and failing to address its problems, making a colossal loss in the process. Maybe there is some truth behind the rumours after all.