JPM

I never watched much NASCAR until Juan went over. I can't stand the short tracks, but am getting some enjoyment watching the longer ovals. I remember Juan as the guy that would try a pass anywhere on the track in F1. Love him or hate him he kept things interesting. Now he is consistently qualifying ahead of mid-pack and methodically finishing in the top10-20 I never thought I'd be into NASCAR But that's what you can find me doing on Sunday afternoons. Although I do tend to fall to sleep by about the 5th caution :)
http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news?..._com&type=lgns

Here... let me help you back.

http://www.motorsportforums.com/foru...splay.php?f=96

:p

From what i saw of it ,Juan Pablo got married,had a child ,and THEN decided he wanted out of F1.Usually its her indoors that says "Be Careful today". That causes the slowdown.Its the young single guys that GO FOR IT !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tazio

I never watched much NASCAR until Juan went over. I can't stand the short tracks, but am getting some enjoyment watching the longer ovals. I remember Juan as the guy that would try a pass anywhere on the track in F1. Love him or hate him he kept things interesting. Now he is consistently qualifying ahead of mid-pack and methodically finishing in the top10-20 I never thought I'd be into NASCAR But that's what you can find me doing on Sunday afternoons. Although I do tend to fall to sleep by about the 5th caution :)
http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news?..._com&type=lgns

---

You've been converted as well Tazio! I was converted to this great american race series they call NASCAR, I love it. Ofcourse I support JPM because of his F1 connections, I hope he makes it into the chase this year.

Cant believe you dont like the short tracks though, all the races are fun aren't they? :)

Thanks to Nascar I also really want sears point/infineon in F1, what a great track!

as much as Id like to see JPM back in F1, Id rather see him do well in NASCAR first, If he became a star over there and then came back to F1, maybe more americans will be converted to F1 like we were to NASCAR?

Id doubt he'd come back now though, he looks like he's enjoying it too much over there, and I still think he has 'too much pride' to come back after he left. I hope Im wrong though.

What JPM represents is that in this day and age of specialisation he emulates Clark, Andretti, Gurney et al by jumping into a race car, any race car and still be, at the very least, be competitive and be able to run with the front runners.

Great thread Taz.

I'm not a NASCAR guy really, but was a great supporter of JPM in Formula 1 and remain a supporter of him in whatever motorsport he chooses to try. He was one of the few people in recent F1 times to best the worlds best drivers in equal or lesser cars, and seems to have done so a few times in the NASCAR world as well.

We need more JPMs in racing. To me he's one of the people that have made racing exciting again. A man with the heart and soul of a real racer. Sure there were times he forced a bad move, but there were just as many times me made brilliant moves!


As a side note, a couple years back we went to the NASCAR race in Richmond. JPM had a fairly good race, moving up a number of position until he wasted the car in a wreck, bouncing down the back straight with the car on fire until he jumped out. Our seats were not much past where he ended up.

Where was I? Behind the stands getting a funnel cake for my wife! :laugh: It was the best JPM performance I missed first hand!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wedge

What JPM represents is that in this day and age of specialisation he emulates Clark, Andretti, Gurney et al by jumping into a race car, any race car and still be, at the very least, be competitive and be able to run with the front runners.

---

a poor emulation.

Clark, Gurney and Andretti won, consistently.......Gurney never won a WDC but gave Clark a run for his money in a few races, but still won or lead everywhere he raced.

Andretti makes even Clark look a distant second, when it comes to competing in different forms of racing, be it dirt tracks, stock cars as in Daytona 500 1967 victory--JPM has never won a major speedway race and Clark never tried, but Andretti showed up and took it, a wdc title (none for JPM despite plenty of opportunities), might have won lemans with some better luck, but took a number of 12 hour endurance races,

And quite over looked when a certain canadian showed uo as a rookie and took pole in the williams (the dominant car that year) was the Andretti before him enterred his first f1 race, took pole, and probably would have won as he looked to being able to take stewart back for the lead, until the car nose split

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Markabilly

JPM has never won a major speedway race

---

If you exclude the 2000 Indy 500!

Montoya exited f1 because Mclaren booted him.
And he understood that after Mclaren it was downhill from there.

He resides in NASCAR where he still has to learn to win with the big boys and he can weigh sixty pounds more [he really is a very podgy little fellah these days] and it counts for nothing.

Getting married and having kids does not promote a decline in f1 performance - just that being an f1 driver is SO much fun, its towards the end of a career that many drivers decide to "settle down".

These days drivers are generally younger than was the case in previous decades anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Getting married and having kids does not promote a decline in f1 performance - just that being an f1 driver is SO much fun, its towards the end of a career that many drivers decide to "settle down".

These days drivers are generally younger than was the case in previous decades anyway.

---

I'm glad I let you address that one. I don't think I could be that diplomatic in response to such an obtuse and irrelevant perspective.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tazio

If you exclude the 2000 Indy 500!

---

actually i was referring to nascar and big speedway tracks they run on (and Andretti only ran a few of those, and scored the Daytona 500.

mac 'fired" him after they learned that he had done a deal for driving nascar

and what is forgotten, is that kimi never dominated JPM as a team mate, and JPM dominanted RS, although after JPM ended up in ronnie d's doghouse, he was not having some good results compared to kimi the last few races, suspicion being that JPM was headed for greener pastures where the pay was better and the racing more fun....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by markabilly

actually i was referring to nascar and big speedway tracks they run on (and Andretti only ran a few of those, and scored the Daytona 500.

mac 'fired" him after they learned that he had done a deal for driving nascar

and what is forgotten, is that kimi never dominated JPM as a team mate, and JPM dominanted RS, although after JPM ended up in ronnie d's doghouse, he was not having some good results compared to kimi the last few races, suspicion being that JPM was headed for greener pastures where the pay was better and the racing more fun....

---

Thanks for clearing that up for me.
There is another thread where a certain member who I believe once had his image
chiseled out of White Carrera Marble in the Vatican Rotunda,
who argues that Mike had virtually no real competition between Senna, and Alonso,
and only showed up to receive his trophy’s while competing against these really weak performers
like Kimi JPM, DC, Ralf, Mika, Jacques, and others. Every one of these guys in their prime were excellent racers,
yet only two secured a WDC in full careers while Mike collected a paltry seven. :mark:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by markabilly

a poor emulation.

Clark, Gurney and Andretti won, consistently.......Gurney never won a WDC but gave Clark a run for his money in a few races, but still won or lead everywhere he raced.

Andretti makes even Clark look a distant second, when it comes to competing in different forms of racing, be it dirt tracks, stock cars as in Daytona 500 1967 victory--JPM has never won a major speedway race and Clark never tried, but Andretti showed up and took it, a wdc title (none for JPM despite plenty of opportunities),

---

Clark was Euro-centric. Clark did Indy because of Chapman's ambitions and the money. He only did one NASCAR race at Rockingham, IIRC.

Andretti won WDC in the dominant car cf. JPM/Williams were up against Ferrari/Schumi in 2003 and was up against Kimi & Alonso in 2005.

Dunno what it was like in Andretti's or Gurney's days but DEI Ganassi are hardly a team that can win week in week out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by markabilly

mac 'fired" him after they learned that he had done a deal for driving nascar

---

No it wasn't. Ron knew JPM wanted to leave. JPM was talking to different teams but because he was too much of a pain in the ass nobody in F1 wanted him and instead called up Chip Ganassi.

Face it wedge, someone like JPM should not be mentioned in the same breath as Clark, Gurney and Andretti

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by markabilly

Andretti makes even Clark look a distant second, when it comes to competing in different forms of racing, be it dirt tracks, stock cars as in Daytona 500 1967 victory

---

I'd disagree with you there and say that both were equally versatile. Whilst it's true that Clark didn't take much of an interest in dirt tracks or stock cars, the fact is that they are American forms of motor racing and so would appeal less to a driver based in Europe.

Clark, instead, raced in rally events and hill climbs and was of course British Touring Car champion in 1964. Along with F1, Indycars, Le Mans...

So equally versatile. Although Clark the better driver overall.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by markabilly

Face it wedge, someone like JPM should not be mentioned in the same breath as Clark, Gurney and Andretti

---

That's your opinion that I disagree with and vice versa

Anyone that wins more than one F1 race qualifies for mention anywhere. F1 is that tough!! However back to JPM. One of the problems with NASCAR is that you can't horse the car to the front. You either have the car or you don't - On road courses in NASCAR a driver has a chance to make up for the car but even that is getting tougher cause the young ones are now paying more attention. True the seats are far more comfortable in NASCAR so you don't have to live at the gym but JPM has it and has proven it!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colin_Harvey

I'd disagree with you there and say that both were equally versatile. Whilst it's true that Clark didn't take much of an interest in dirt tracks or stock cars, the fact is that they are American forms of motor racing and so would appeal less to a driver based in Europe.

Clark, instead, raced in rally events and hill climbs and was of course British Touring Car champion in 1964. Along with F1, Indycars, Le Mans...

So equally versatile. Although Clark the better driver overall.

---

No way was Clark "close to equally versatile. Although Clark the better driver overall", Nope, while I think Clark and Stewart were the very last of the truly great pure driving talents in F1 to consistently demonstrate those skills, when it comes to who the better driver was in different forms of racing, indeed even in the different forms of f1, over the time period from 1967 to 1990, there is no other driver close.

dirt tracking and the big ovals are completely different and Clark never proved himself in either. Sad though because in terms of sheer speed, it is not clear who was the faster driver, as in 1965 andretti was a rookie, but in 1966 and 1967 in the two later races where Andretti and clark raced together, Andretti took pole in a "brawner" over Clark and others.

One can say, in theory and opinion, Clark this or that, but as to actually demonstrating it on a track, only Andretti is there in a class all by himself. Even in the different forms of f1 as it advanced for some 14 years (yep 14 years) for andretti, who raced f1 as though it were merely a second, lesser series than his primary interests which was racing in the usa........

Even Colin Chapman would say that Andretti had very special skills over any other driver who drove for him, when it came to setting up a car whereas Clark would just drive the car. Probably more than anyone else, he turned the very back of the pack Lotus when he started with the team in 1976 in to a car that would lap the entire field by the last race of the season--and the car that dominated in 1977 and 1978, did so thanks to his skills, in a time before the sheer dominance of aero and data acquisition and engineers with wind tunnels......

indeed, perhaps he better than anyone else, was in the position to judge the older forms of non-wing competition with the later forms...and he made it clear that the requirements of driving skill and feel for the car were rapidly decreasing into what he referred to go karts requiring toggle switch driving or point and squirt, with the car and engineering becoming overall dominant.

I heard him say in 1981 or so in a tv interview, during his year driving the alfa, when asked about the "supreme skills" to race f1, he said that it required far more skill and talent to race competitively at Indy in 1967 than to race f1 in 1981......he should know better than any

JPM is a non qualifier for consideration in the class of Clark, Gurney or Andretti.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by markabilly

No way was Clark "close to equally versatile. Although Clark the better driver overall", Nope, while I think Clark and Stewart were the very last of the truly great pure driving talents in F1 to consistently demonstrate those skills, when it comes to who the better driver was in different forms of racing, indeed even in the different forms of f1, over the time period from 1967 to 1990, there is no other driver close.

dirt tracking and the big ovals are completely different and Clark never proved himself in either. Sad though because in terms of sheer speed, it is not clear who was the faster driver, as in 1965 andretti was a rookie, but in 1966 and 1967 in the two later races where Andretti and clark raced together, Andretti took pole in a "brawner" over Clark and others.

---

Andretti and Clark had different upbringings.

Had Clark been born in the USA then undoubtedly he would've digged the oval racing scene and had Andretti family emigrated to England he probably would've done rallying and touring cars.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by markabilly

I heard him say in 1981 or so in a tv interview, during his year driving the alfa, when asked about the "supreme skills" to race f1, he said that it required far more skill and talent to race competitively at Indy in 1967 than to race f1 in 1981......he should know better than any

---

Pretty much everyone was saying something similar in 1981. Gilles said he hated those cars. It had the equivalence to TC today, drive flat out and no feel from the car except your spine cracking due to the rock hard suspension settings for maximising ground effects.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by markabilly

JPM is a non qualifier for consideration in the class of Clark, Gurney or Andretti.....

---

Considering he won in CART (in its prime), won in F1 (ability to beat Schumi in a straight fight which is something special to have on CV) and with limited oval racing experience can run in the top 10 week in week out in a non-JGR/Hendrick/Roush machine in NASCAR, JPM is hardly in the same league as Robby Gordon is he?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wedge

Considering he won in CART (in its prime), won in F1 (ability to beat Schumi in a straight fight which is something special to have on CV) and with limited oval racing experience can run in the top 10 week in week out in a non-JGR/Hendrick/Roush machine in NASCAR, JPM is hardly in the same league as Robby Gordon is he?

---

You are right, he is not in the same league with Robbie, Robbie is better

a few races does not a champion make

as to limited experience, jPM has spent well over three years running almost every weekend in Nascar races........and he usually manages to run at times in the top ten....but most Nascar drivers can say the same thing, thanks to pit stops and such.

finishes is a whole different matter

example: 2007 51 starts, one win on a road course...29th place finish in points

now running the earnhardt ganassi team, not a slouch team at all

just like when he ran cart, he was with a team where the driver should be winning, except he is not

andretti ran only a few races in nascar, had only one victory, the Daytona 500

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by markabilly

You are right, he is not in the same league with Robbie, Robbie is better

a few races does not a champion make

as to limited experience, jPM has spent well over three years running almost every weekend in Nascar races........and he usually manages to run at times in the top ten....but most Nascar drivers can say the same thing, thanks to pit stops and such.

finishes is a whole different matter

example: 2007 51 starts, one win on a road course...29th place finish in points

now running the earnhardt ganassi team, not a slouch team at all

just like when he ran cart, he was with a team where the driver should be winning, except he is not

andretti ran only a few races in nascar, had only one victory, the Daytona 500

---

Different era, we're now in the multi-car team era.

JPM had top 30 car in plate races with Ganassi, now a top 5 car thanks to DEI.

2nd at 2007 Brickyard 400, could've won the race with another 10 laps.

DEI had been on a downhill slope. A lucky win for Jr last year!

Christ, even JPM is beating Martin Truex Jr in points right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wedge

Different era, we're now in the multi-car team era.

JPM had top 30 car in plate races with Ganassi, now a top 5 car thanks to DEI.

2nd at 2007 Brickyard 400, could've won the race with another 10 laps.

DEI had been on a downhill slope. A lucky win for Jr last year!

Christ, even JPM is beating Martin Truex Jr in points right now.

---

Not saying he is doing bad, just that he ain't in Clark, Andretti or Gurney league......never has been and never will.

as to different eras, oh yeah, those guys raced where the driver made all the difference. Put those guys in an average car and you had a contender for the top spot.

Put an average driver in the very best car, and you had an average result

Nowadays, everything is much, much different.

average driver in a great car that suits his tyle, is a contender or near contender.

great driver in an average or worse car, is an average or worst result....and then there is data acquisition which when used right by a great engineer can cure many deficiencies in driving......back then the driver had to cure his own problems, make changes or drive around the problems based on his own skill..

and JPM is specializing, he is not doing F1 in addition to the irl and flying back and forth to do the occaisional F1 race all at the same time....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by markabilly

You are right, he is not in the same league with Robbie, Robbie is better

a few races does not a champion make

as to limited experience, jPM has spent well over three years running almost every weekend in Nascar races........and he usually manages to run at times in the top ten....but most Nascar drivers can say the same thing, thanks to pit stops and such.

finishes is a whole different matter

example: 2007 51 starts, one win on a road course...29th place finish in points

now running the earnhardt ganassi team, not a slouch team at all

just like when he ran cart, he was with a team where the driver should be winning, except he is not

andretti ran only a few races in nascar, had only one victory, the Daytona 500

---

You old meanie :mad:

He's "9" in the chase. His team mate has abandoned him, with his butt thoroughly whipped
(not that anyone would follow his Columbian @$$ out of line to form a bump, and draft, and you know)draft thingy's :p :.
The good ol' boys always get help when they break file. Juan has to be in the right spot to fall in. becuse early on if he has some speed and pulls out,
there aint no freakin' help for his feriner @ss! :arrows:
You're as bad as the rest of them ol' boys! :down:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by markabilly

and JPM is specializing, he is not doing F1 in addition to the irl and flying back and forth to do the occaisional F1 race all at the same time....

---

Errr... that was the point I originally made. We're in the era of specialisation but JPM has shown talent to be competitive in any race car which was my original point.

Doing it and hopping off one continent to the next every week is a different story...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wedge

Doing it and hopping off one continent to the next every week is a different story...

---

but that was my point re about them and why i think what i do...jpm has spent three years almost exclusively, to try to be now number 9 in points...with just one or two victories...those guys just went from one different race to another, back again, and won

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by markabilly

but that was my point re about them and why i think what i do...jpm has spent three years almost exclusively, to try to be now number 9 in points...with just one or two victories...those guys just went from one different race to another, back again, and won

---

I don't care! about that part of the thread! You come off as a nay sayer in regard to JPM's acomplishment in NASTY CAR I'm not defendind him against any of the great multi-disapline drivers. So carry on bashing him! :p : :arrows:
And I'l keep out of the negativity that this, like every other thread eventually has.
Give the man his props!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wedge

Errr... that was the point I originally made. We're in the era of specialisation but JPM has shown talent to be competitive in any race car which was my original point.

Doing it and hopping off one continent to the next every week is a different story...

---

What is wrong with me, how could i forget? I fussing over Andretti clark and so forth, but being a motorcycle race nut.....I forgot someone who might be a match for even andretti, and never got the PR he deserved, but jumped from two wheel champ to f1 and a wdc very quckly obtained, built his own race car that won a gp, and who had to bury a son this week......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by markabilly

What is wrong with me, how could i forget? I fussing over Andretti clark and so forth, but being a motorcycle race nut.....I forgot someone who might be a match for even andretti, and never got the PR he deserved, but jumped from two wheel champ to f1 and a wdc very quckly obtained, built his own race car that won a gp, and who had to bury a son this week......

---

A latter day Nuvolari! :up:

Well, you guys that know me know what I feel for my fellow Colombian JPM.

I am a blatant JPM fan that got hooked on his talents of F1 and am now following him in NASCAR.

It's been a great learning curve for both Juan and I. :o

Juan gets better and better on each race and I am learning to enjoy all the different types of oval tracks. And of course when the 2 road courses come they are the best specially when you see Juan navigate himself through the other cars with that heavy bouncing car of his.

Those guys are nuts and seeing them race that close together and at those speeds is awesome.

For me the trick to enjoy the race is to record it - that way I can fast forward through parts of the race that may get boring, specially with the length of the races. I can even start recording it on the same day that I view it but start watching like an hour or two after it has started and I just catch up with the race.

Some things bug me like the yellow cautions that come from nowhere or getting screwed if you pit at the wrong time and then a caution happens but that's part of the NASCAR circus.

Juan is having a ball, he's climbing up the ranks and he's showing the good ol' boys that this latino has big balls and can race those heavy clunkers to the front.

Juan is a true racer and one of the best in the business. Period.

Go JPM!!!
:s mokin:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tazio

I don't care! about that part of the thread! You come off as a nay sayer in regard to JPM's acomplishment in NASTY CAR I'm not defendind him against any of the great multi-disapline drivers. So carry on bashing him! :p : :arrows:
And I'l keep out of the negativity that this, like every other thread eventually has.
Give the man his props!

---

Markabilly has his own opinions and I respect them enough for it to contribute to an enjoyable discussion without having to take cheapshots.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wedge

Markabilly] has his own opinions and I respect them enough for it to contribute to an enjoyable discussion without having to take cheapshots.

---

Did you see the smiley faces in my post ;)
Marky knows I'm having a little fun with him.
He gives more than he takes.
Stay calm, and enjoy the forum.I am.
And please "don't trip" bro :p :

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tazio

Marky knows I'm having a little fun with him.
He gives more than he takes.
:p :

---

I just noticed and reported that post of yours :mad:
you will be taking some "giving" real soon........

look ma, no smilies

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by markabilly

I just noticed and reported that post of yours :mad:
you will be taking some "giving" real soon........

look ma, no smilies

---

Like I would actually give a flying F### :laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tazio

Like I would actually give a flying F### :laugh:

---

I understand, at your age, it don't work like it used to and those erectile disfunction drugs don't either....
May it rest in peace....

.. :s mokin:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by markabilly

I understand, at your age, it don't work like it used to and those erectile disfunction drugs don't either....
May it rest in peace....

.. :s mokin:

---

DON'T YOU GO FRETTIN' NONE ! ALL MY PARTS ARE IN WORKING ORDER!

Don't look now, but he's leading at Indy.

Talked too soon! Drive-through penalty.

thanks gloomyday. you've ruined it for us all.

watching it, and I was so looking foward to him winning, he looked like he was finally gonna do it on a speedway.

annoyed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UltimateDanGTR

thanks gloomyday. you've ruined it for us all.

watching it, and I was so looking foward to him winning, he looked like he was finally gonna do it on a speedway.

annoyed.

---

Me too. He led 116 of the first 126 laps as well... Grr...

Ripped he was, although Indy is not what i call a big oval more of a simple road type course with four corners, but RIPPED he was....2/10th of a mph over????huh????

where da tazio?? surprized he is not here rubbing it in.
I need to tell him about a new ED drug and foinia.

Miss you guy





/