BRABHAM! The old band really IS getting back together!

According to orf.com:

http://sport.orf.at/?href=http%3A%2F...%2F329880.html

paraphrased as:

According to Motorsport Aktuell, an organization named Brabham Grand Prix Limited has submitted an entry before the 2010 deadline. German entrepreneur Franz Hilmer, a Bavarian auto parts supplier, had purchased the assets of Super Aguri in 2008, and also secured the rights to the name Brabham Grand Prix.

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Why isn't there just one master list of entrants, instead of having to find them out piece mail? :p :

Oh man.... how I WISH they would all make it in... pre-qualifying, PLEEEEEASE!! :cool:

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Originally Posted by maximilian

Oh man.... how I WISH they would all make it in... pre-qualifying, PLEEEEEASE!! :cool:

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:D i want this too but then i realized we'd need lots more room in the pits. i don't think there would be a decent way to fit 14-15 teams.

and imagine being a back marker that NEVER gets to race all season haha

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Wow it would be great to see Jack back in the car after all these years..

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Hmmm, maybe he couldn't take Mark Webber breaking his record for most GP starts for an Australian driver sitting down! :D

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Originally Posted by henners88

Wow it would be great to see Jack back in the car after all these years..

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If the same people behind this news are the same who publicised a "Brabham" BMW M3 at the 2008 Essen Motor Show then there is no connection with the Brabham F1 team that once was, nor Sir Jack Brabham. (Link)

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Originally Posted by drinkyourmilk

:D i want this too but then i realized we'd need lots more room in the pits. i don't think there would be a decent way to fit 14-15 teams.

and imagine being a back marker that NEVER gets to race all season haha

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I hear this as pretty much the ONLY argument against having more teams, and it irks me. Maybe part of the cost saving measures should be, teams use SMALLER pits from now on... there has got to be a way to accommodate - I guess in the PQ days of the past, there were temporary pits set up in the staging area behind the main pit building, why wouldn't that be possible again? Then, who ever makes it into the race in Friday PQ, gets one of the "proper" pit stalls for the race.

I realize that there might be some teams who never get so see the grid, as they can't make it out of PQ, but that'll really be THEIR problem, and should not keep any one else from taking away their chance to attempt to make the race. If they keep failing, they'll probably call it quits sooner or later by themselves.

How, oh how, do we get them to let in all the teams? I know, I am just dreaming here, it would be too good... but it really would be a shame to see some of these not get in, they seem to have good fundamentals, and I'd be interested to see them all. Not to mention extra interest with some of the classic names involved.

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Originally Posted by maximilian

I hear this as pretty much the ONLY argument against having more teams, and it irks me. Maybe part of the cost saving measures should be, teams use SMALLER pits from now on... there has got to be a way to accommodate - I guess in the PQ days of the past, there were temporary pits set up in the staging area behind the main pit building, why wouldn't that be possible again? Then, who ever makes it into the race in Friday PQ, gets one of the "proper" pit stalls for the race.

I realize that there might be some teams who never get so see the grid, as they can't make it out of PQ, but that'll really be THEIR problem, and should not keep any one else from taking away their chance to attempt to make the race. If they keep failing, they'll probably call it quits sooner or later by themselves.

How, oh how, do we get them to let in all the teams? I know, I am just dreaming here, it would be too good... but it really would be a shame to see some of these not get in, they seem to have good fundamentals, and I'd be interested to see them all. Not to mention extra interest with some of the classic names involved.

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Im not sure pit space would be a problem.... (apart from Monaco) because lets look at some facts here:

Dubai 24 hrs-Over 70 cars enter-all get their own garages on pit lane.
Britcar 24 hours-59 cars or whatever it is-all cars have a pit garage
NASCAR-43 cars, all have pit spaces


so F1 shouldnt have too much of a problem actually. Only problem is, the FIA just want a small grid..........


maybe they should go mad-have 40 car grids and a nascar-like points system? OK thats a mad thought, at least it would be entertaining......

Wow, quite a few old names making a resurgence. If they match the 80s/90s names to the 80s/90s on track action we might be getting somewhere!

I'm sorry, but I can't see names like Brabham or March being any kind of serious teams in the making. I've got a strange feeling someone is joking here. Maybe Max asked those guys to enter their "teams" for F1 to make his negotiating position with FOTA stronger?

this Rsole is using the BRABHAM name
http://www.caradvice.com.au/19297/si...-brabham-name/
Sir Jack sues over use of Brabham name

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The original Brabham Formula One outfit folded in 1992 under the ownership of Japanese engineering firm Middlebridge Group, after which the Brabham family bought back the rights to the company.

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A high-profile manufacturer debut at this weekend’s Essen Auto Show has sparked a legal battle after legendary Australian Formula One driver, Sir Jack Brabham, was informed that his family name and reputation was being used without his consent.


The issue was raised after German-based Brabham Racing revealed its highly anticipated BMW M3-based BT 92, boasting an implied endorsement by the Australian motoring veteran and his race team.http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/
While the names ‘Brabham’ and ‘Brabham Racing’ were registered legally by the German firm, use of the iconic motor racing legend’s name was considered be in “in complete bad faith” said Sir Jack’s son David.

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“Myself and my three sons have been using the family name for donkey’s years. I want the opportunity for my grandchildren to use the name in the future.” said Sir jack.

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hmmm.... there are a lot of teams that supposedly submitted an entry, but according to grandprix.com the FIA has not announced who has submitted an entry. Checking F1's official site only shows a story about Prodrive's confirmed entry.

Is it possible some of these submissions are not true?
Or maybe some or most of these entries are contingent on their being a cap of about 45mil? I know that USF1 said - 'cap, no cap, doesn't matter to us'. Although I don't know where their money is coming from.

These "revelations" of new team entries are really starting to sound suspicious to me....

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Originally Posted by N. Jones

These "revelations" of new team entries are really starting to sound suspicious to me....

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Perhaps. Particularly where the likes of March and Brabham are concerned. Is it a coincidence that the names are closely associated with Mosley and Ecclestone?

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Perhaps. Particularly where the likes of March and Brabham are concerned. Is it a coincidence that the names are closely associated with Mosley and Ecclestone?

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Very good point!

Assuming on the 1% chance that it is not just hot air, I wouldn't like to see this. This is different to March, who IIRC will still be headed up by the same guy who owned the name the last time they were in F1 in 1992, or Lola who were not only legitimately bought, but probably saved from extinction by their current owner. I'm all for traditional names in the sport (and lets face it, they *were* a loss), but only if it's done in the right way, with some sort of "link" to the former outfit.

If David, Geoff or Gary fancied a shot at running an F1 team, that would be different :up:

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Originally Posted by jens

I'm sorry, but I can't see names like Brabham or March being any kind of serious teams in the making. I've got a strange feeling someone is joking here. Maybe Max asked those guys to enter their "teams" for F1 to make his negotiating position with FOTA stronger?

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I wouldn't be surprised. In fact now you've mentioned it I think its almost certain! :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Perhaps. Particularly where the likes of March and Brabham are concerned. Is it a coincidence that the names are closely associated with Mosley and Ecclestone?

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I don't know but I find that outside of the four teams that have confirmed their entry the rest is just speculation that gets people excited.

For my part I am concentrating on the people who have confirmed and entry - USF1, Prodrive, Litespeed, Superfund. Can't remember if Lola confirmed or not.

I wish we knew if they were all true or not.

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Originally Posted by jens

I'm sorry, but I can't see names like Brabham or March being any kind of serious teams in the making. I've got a strange feeling someone is joking here. Maybe Max asked those guys to enter their "teams" for F1 to make his negotiating position with FOTA stronger?

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You're on to something here, I mean why March and Brabham? Why not Eurobrun, Andrea Moda Formula and Coloni? :)

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Originally Posted by UltimateDanGTR

Im not sure pit space would be a problem.... (apart from Monaco) because lets look at some facts here:

Dubai 24 hrs-Over 70 cars enter-all get their own garages on pit lane.
Britcar 24 hours-59 cars or whatever it is-all cars have a pit garage
NASCAR-43 cars, all have pit spaces


so F1 shouldnt have too much of a problem actually. Only problem is, the FIA just want a small grid..........


maybe they should go mad-have 40 car grids and a nascar-like points system? OK thats a mad thought, at least it would be entertaining......

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The entire pit and garage situation in F1 IRKS me, always has since Bernie and his franchise BS was instituted. So what if the teams need a garage at fly away races. Here's a thought, quit packing the teams like a woman on a weekend holiday. It's three days, only one pair of shoes is needed. Ok maybe two... :rolleyes: ;)


Here's my thoughts for the bazillionth time. It takes 7 people max to pit a car with the current F1 refuelling system, 5 if there is only a single front and rear tire changer, 4 if there is no refuelling, 3 if they allowed onboard pneumatic jacks like In Indycars. The average F1 pit crew on a stop is 18 as best as I can manage to count in all that chaos tha is an F1 pitstop.That's enough for three cars IMHO. Assenine. Total utter BS. Oh, "but the cars share the same fuel rig".... Yet they have a back-up rig?
Divide the crew in half and that's still twice as many as necessary. Every track is required to have the Garaj- Majal setup for 24 teams, however many tracks can accomodate far more cars in pit lane. Bernie just doesn't want the burden of transporting more than 24 cars half way around the world. They USED to do it??? Me thinks his wallet doth protest too much.

I'd much prefer to see an Indycar style pit lane during the races. They are far safer to the crews and spectators and infinitely less congested with people than the typical F1 pit lane. If a car is retiring from a race, there is ZERO reason that car need return to the pit lane garage during the race. Nor is ther a reason set up changes to the cars can't be made on pit lane. extensive changes can happen "behind the wall or in the garage. When was the last time an F1 car went to the garage, was repaired and then returned to the race?

F1 needs to re-think their entire pit/paddock demands. Tell me they wouldn't triple their attendance if fans were allowed to walk the paddock and garages when the track is closed like in American racing. Look at when they have opened the tracks to a pit walkabout. :)

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Originally Posted by nigelred5

The entire pit and garage situation in F1 IRKS me, always has since Bernie and his franchise BS was instituted. So what if the teams need a garage at fly away races. Here's a thought, quit packing the teams like a woman on a weekend holiday. It's three days, only one pair of shoes is needed. Ok maybe two... :rolleyes: ;)

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Very good post, Nige! I totally agree on all that, like I stated before, part of reducing expenses should be to reduce the pit sizes, and yes, indeed it makes a LOT of sense to cut the crews as well. Other series have limits on how many mechanics are allowed to service a car, so why not F1, too? And who says that a pit stop needs to take less than 8 seconds?

With March and Brabham I have got another speculation. If FIA really decides to reject FOTA's application, then after June 12 Max tells FOTA members that if you want to race in F1, then buy their place on the grid and you can race. :p : The only function of those "empty names" is just to fill up all 13 entry slots, so that there is no room any more and their place can be bought - more money to FIA (we might get more of those empty names during next days).

What is the root of all evil???

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Originally Posted by nigelred5

What is the root of all evil???

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Bernie.

http://www.myf1dream.com/blog.php

Oh, look who has submitted an entry. :laugh:

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Originally Posted by jens

With March and Brabham I have got another speculation. If FIA really decides to reject FOTA's application, then after June 12 Max tells FOTA members that if you want to race in F1, then buy their place on the grid and you can race. :p : The only function of those "empty names" is just to fill up all 13 entry slots, so that there is no room any more and their place can be bought - more money to FIA (we might get more of those empty names during next days).

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Or maybe these entries are being invented by F1 rumour sites, all trying to out-do each other to get maximum page impressions for their advertisers.
I really hope that's it, and not what you said, because that would just be too evil. Though entirely plausible given that we are talking about Max. :(

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Brabham Enterprises Limited released a statement this afternoon saying that it is ready to take legal advice over the use of the name for the team.

The statement read: "Sir Jack Brabham and the Brabham family have expressed their surprise at the recent news reporting that an entry has been submitted for the 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship by Formtech with the intention of operating as Brabham Grand Prix Limited.
"The family would like to make it clear that they are in no way involved with Brabham Grand Prix Limited and received no consultation regarding the company's plans to resurrect their historic name in Formula One.
"The family is taking legal advice and will take necessary steps to protect their name, reputation and its goodwill."

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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75806

Well well, it seems like this will make it one less entry on Max's list.
Great news!

Who's next to fall off the list?

Meanwhile James Allen has a little bit more info about this proposed Brabham entry:
http://allenonf1.wordpress.com/2009/...am-back-in-f1/

I stopped readin' when James said how Mateschitz is a close friend of Mosley and how RBR will stay based on that, because that is BS like the whole article that James dreamed up.

The Brabhams can bicker all they like, but if the dude owns the legal rights to use the name Brabham Grand Prix, then there should be nothing they can do... should have made sure you owned the rights yourself.

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Originally Posted by maximilian

The Brabhams can bicker all they like, but if the dude owns the legal rights to use the name Brabham Grand Prix, then there should be nothing they can do... should have made sure you owned the rights yourself.

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The original Brabham Formula One outfit folded in 1992 under the ownership of Japanese engineering firm Middlebridge Group, after which the Brabham family bought back the rights to the company.

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i do not see it that way

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Originally Posted by thunderbolt

i do not see it that way

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I said, IF :D He must either own something, or have a lot of nerve :p : In any event, it's pretty bad etiquette to announce something like that without at least consulting the Brabhams first...

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Originally Posted by maximilian

I said, IF :D He must either own something, or have a lot of nerve :p : In any event, it's pretty bad etiquette to announce something like that without at least consulting the Brabhams first...

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There is also a "Brabham Racing" in Germany that claims to have rights to the name (and whose announcement in December generated a similar complaint from the family).

It would be nice to know what really happened with the rights of the name when the Middlebridge F1 effort collapsed ...

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Originally Posted by tomh

There is also a "Brabham Racing" in Germany that claims to have rights to the name (and whose announcement in December generated a similar complaint from the family).

It would be nice to know what really happened with the rights of the name when the Middlebridge F1 effort collapsed ...

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I think this might well be the same outfit. My guess is, the Brabhams didn't have the cash to buy back "all" the rights, and some one a little more affluent snapped up a part of it, or more. But I guess we'll find out. Or won't, because if Brabham isn't chosen as one of the final entrants, we may never hear from them again :p

Ironically Jack Brabham never wanted to use the Brabham name to start with. His and Tauranac's firm set up to build racing cars was called Motor Racing Developments and the cars were to be called MRDs.

But legend has it, can't remember the exact story but something to with Frenchmen pronouncing it as "merde" led Brabham to reluctantly slap his own name on the thing. Pretty much like how you'd never imagine a car called an SHT in the English speaking world.

And to be fair Jack Brabham had nothing to do with the Brabham outfit from 1971 onwards. But still, I have nothing but respect for the guy and everything he achieved and it would be nice that any such operation, succesful or not, bearing his name, at least has his and his family's blessing.

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Originally Posted by maximilian

I think this might well be the same outfit.

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I suspected that myself, and dug into it. They are two separate companies, though (albeit both in Germany), in two different cities, and there don't appear to be any people in common. However, anything's possible behind the scenes.

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Originally Posted by V12

And to be fair Jack Brabham had nothing to do with the Brabham outfit from 1971 onwards. But still, I have nothing but respect for the guy and everything he achieved and it would be nice that any such operation, succesful or not, bearing his name, at least has his and his family's blessing.

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Amen to that. Sir Jack has the unique distinction of back to back World Drivers/Consructors titles in a car of his own design, with the Drivers championship in 1966 for himself, and 1967 for Denis Hulme. Of particular note is how competitive he was in 1970, age 44. He had one win, 2 2nds and a 3rd; in his final GP at Mexico he settled for a certain 3rd position till his engine let go. When Jack was in charge, Brabham was never a name to be taken lightly.