Which teams in the past replicate Brawn/Honda from being on the wrong side of the grid one year to being front runners the year after?
Printable View
Which teams in the past replicate Brawn/Honda from being on the wrong side of the grid one year to being front runners the year after?
interesting question.
one that I can think of: Ferrari: 1980 and '81: Pretty useless (apart from villeneuve in jarama and monaco) to 82: Constructors champions. nice turn around
Mclaren 1981. Ferrari 1974.Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
Toleman when it became Benetton in 1986 or is that cheating? ;)
Ferrari in 1961 (The 1960 Italian GP win doesn't really count because of the boycott)
BRM in 1962 - 7 points in 1961 and Drivers' and Constructors' champions in 1962
Was the 1981 Ferrari really that bad? It was a decent midfielder in some instances, scrapping for points, which more than Honda were capable of last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateDanGTR
well that is questionable, but it wasnt great. but the following season they were champions, so they definatly went through some transition.Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
Teo Fabi did put the TG185 on pole at the Nurburgring in 1985. The only thing that scuppered the 1985 season for the team was the Goodyear runners refusing to agree to let Toleman run on Goodyears. The car itself wasn't too shabby.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soperfan
i do remember Fabis pole but besides that the team did little in 1985 on Pirelli? tyres.
if i remember Brabham also switched to Pirellis in 1985 and had an awful season.
I don't know about being front runners, being front runners, but your title says zeros to heros, and Super Aguri sure as heck qualifies for that: a reject plus a test driver becoming heros.Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
I saw that on the telly (jarama that is) - Villeneuve had the entire field behind him for the whole race, whilst trying to keep a handle on possibly the most evil F1 Ferarri of all time. Massive Hp in something that made a Datsun 120Y seem a real drivers car :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateDanGTR
Villeneuve was my hero!
Wolf in 1977, similarly to Brawn they were technically a new constructor when they won their first race, but also like Brawn they had existed in a different guise the previous year and had been at the back (as Williams or Wolf-Williams)
Good question. If we are generally trying to recall other significant changes in teams' pecking order besides 2009, then I think 1979 would be a good example. Ligier wasn't nearly as bad in 1978 as Honda in 2008 though, but their pace in early '79 was staggering, when they were dominating races. Also Williams became a major force, who finally after opening their win-score couldn't suddenly stop winning any more after that, taking 4 victories in a row. So in 1979 thanks to ground effect we got two new top teams (like we have got two new forces of Brawn and Red Bull in 2009).
From recent times - maybe Toyota in 2005. :D They couldn't challenge for points in 2004 on merit, but suddenly managed podiums in early '05 on merit.
McLaren 2007 - in 2006 they were decidedly mired in the mid-field and didnt win a single race, in 2007 they came extremely close to the title with both drivers. Again, McLaren in 2005 - in 2004 they had the distasterous MP4-18 experiment which for the time was just pushing what could be done with F1 chassis technology too far, only a massive mid-season effort and a completely re-designed car saved thier blushes with a timely win for Raikonnen at Spa, in 2005 they had what was the out and out fastest car in the field for the balance of the season, superior reliability in the early season gave Renault and Alonso the edge in the championship but McLaren ran it very close. Both instances were good cases of a below par season turning around into a very competitive season the next.
I like this thread. I decided to do a bit of searching through books and whatnot. Here is a list of a few I found that might be worth mentioning.
Brabham
1962: Entered three races and scored a total of 6 points
1963: Third in constructors
1968: With Repco engines, finished 8th with 10 points
1969: With Ford engines, finished 2nd with 49.
McLaren
1967: Only scored 3 points (1 points finish)
1968: Second in constructors, though early switch to Ford engine helped
2007: Disqualified from championship
2008: Bounce back to win drivers' title and finish 2nd in constructors
March
1969: Started working on F1 project
1970: Finished 3RD
Tyrell
1970: Entered three races, retired from all (axle, suspension, oil leak)
1971: Won constructors
Penske
1975: 2 points
1976: 20 points and 5th in constructors
Arrows
1986: 1 point, 10TH
1987: 11 points, 7TH
1988: 23 points, 5TH
Lola
1989: 1 point all year
1990: 11 points, 6TH inc. a podium
Stewart
1997/98: Handful of points in what proved to be difficult years.
1999: Upped their game, scored 36 points inc. Several podiums and a win
Sauber
2000: 8TH w/6 points
2001: 4TH w/21 points inc. A podium; bear in mind that this year was all about the 3 top teams. Sauber were very much best of the rest, which is pretty impressive.
BAR
2003: Still never really hit the big time since their arrival in 1999
2004: Finished 2nd with 119 points to Ferrari, who whitewashed the whole year.
BMW/Sauber
2006: BMW takeover did them good but were still no big threath.
2007: Suddenly become a threath a come 2nd in championship (or 3rd without Spygate)
I think I posed a concise question and most people here are taking liberties! Midfielders who were there or there abouts don't interest me whatsoever.
Some good answers nonetheless.
So you mean without points one year and race winners the next? Or something along those lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
Well, the answer I gave you was scraping the barrel a bit but I think thats about as far as it goes. How about teams that did well in their first year? Are you interested in them?
Boo hoo :bigcry:Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
Um... How about Mercedes-Benz, 1953, 0 points, to world champions in 1954?Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
But McLaren's rises were nowhere near to other examples that have been expressed in this thread. Rising from an occasional podium visitor to race winner in one year is nothing compared to moving from "struggling to get into the points" to top challenger!Quote:
Originally Posted by philipbain
Renault, 1978 to 1979.