Dump the Yellow line, let em race balls to the wall
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Dump the Yellow line, let em race balls to the wall
What problems has it created?
"Dump the Yellow line, let em race balls to the wall"
That would be a very bad thing to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by call_me_andrew
a car nearly flying into the stands
How was that the line's fault? No one went below it, and I doubt anyone would have if it was legal.
the TRUE first prob with the yellow line happens and everyone wants it gone?
yeah what happen today was bad, but i cant blame the yellow line, cuz it has nothing to do with Carl wreck, it was more newman that got Carl airborn
but again i cant blame newman, to me its a racing deal
its gonna get Nascar fans talking ratings and fill the stands more
How do you figure? NASCAR set a very dangerous precedent last year by taking the win away from Regan Smith, though he went below the yellow line to prevent the sort of accident that happened today.Quote:
Originally Posted by call_me_andrew
Had it been legal, Keselowski would have gone below the line, and probably still won the race. Instead, because they would have taken the win away if he had done so, Keselowski held his line and... well, we saw what happened.
The problem is, they can't change things now, or else there would be even more of a stink about last years results than there was at the time. NASCAR cost Smith the win last year, and because of that, they could have killed dozens of people today.
I can think of MANY problems caused by yellow line rule:Quote:
Originally Posted by call_me_andrew
1) 2002 Daytona 500. Harvick was leading the race and Jeff Gordon had a run on him. Harvick blocked him down to the line, Jeff refused to lift or go below the line, almost 20 cars taken out of the race. Poetic justice in same race: Jeff blocks Sterling Marlin to the line on a late race restart, Sterling dumps Jeff, and Ward Burton wins the 500
2) 2001 Pepsi 400. Tony Stewart gets drilled in the right side door by another car (replays showed that Stewart was hit) and Stewart goes below the line with 5 laps to go. Stewart was black flagged with 3 to go, refused to heed the black flag because the other car should have been penalized, too, ends up being scored the first car 1 lap down; comes seriously close to decking then Winston Cup Series director Gary Nelson.
3) 2003 Talledega (not sure if spring or fall). Kenny wallace gets forced below the line by another car as they are coming to the line, finishing 3rd. Penalized back to being 1st car 1 lap down, and again the offending car gets off scot free
4) 2003 EA Sports 500-Talledega. Elliot Sadler takes a wild ride, flipping several times because he tried to block Kurt Busch just before going into turn 3. Kurt held his line, the offending car paid the price (starting to see a pattern yet?)
5) 2008 Amp Energy 500. Regan Smith has huge run on
Tony Stewart. Tony Stewart blocks Regan below the line.
Regan Smith gets penalized to the end of the lead lap finsihing 18th. Tony Stewart gets no penalty for running him down there, given the race win.
6) 2009 Daytona 500. Dale Jr has huge run on Brian Vickers down the backstretch. Brian Vickers blocks Jr below the line. Because of the rule, Instead of just completeing the pass safely, Jr checks up, but not enough, trying to stay close to Vickers and not lose any momentum, Jr jumps back up above the line, dumping Vickers and taking out several cars.
7) 2009 Aarons 499. You just saw what happened today, don't make me have to repeat it.
And Those are just the penalties and wrecks caused by the rule. How about the non-calls, Like Jr passing Kenseth below the line in 2003? Instead of praisng an awesome racing move on Dale Jr's part, we are still, 6 years later, arguing whether or not NASCAR showed favoritism in not penalizng Jr for it. It shouldn't have even been an issue in the first place.
In a previous post 'Dega thread, I noted several great finishes at both Daytona and Talledega that would have been nullified had the yellow line rule been in place during the mid to late 90's (both the '97 and '99 Daytona 500's come to mind now, also both Talledega races in 2000).
In the in both the '97 and '99 Daytona 500's, Jeff Gordon passed on the apron entering turn 1. Both passes were race winning moves. In the 2000 Die Hard 500 at 'Dega, Jeff passed Mike Skinner below the line (it was white then) just past the entrance to pit road, also a race winning move. And who can forget Dale Sr's run to the front in the 2000 Winston 500 during those last 4 laps. The 3 had his left side tires in the grass going down the back stretch, trying desperately to get to the front...he got it done! None of these wins would have happend had the rule been in place. Both Jeff Gordon and Dale Sr would have been penalized, and the victory awarded to someone else if events played out exactly the same way, or there would have been big wrecks causing those races to end under caution had someone blocked them, and they probably wouldn't have won, anyway (there was now GWC back then)
Some one once said this was the anti-Jeff Gordon rule. The rule actually came about in the middle of the 2001 Talledega 500 weekend, after Jimmy "Never Forgets" Spencer whined and bitched about about Mike Mclaughlin passing him on the apron in the tri-oval coming to the checkers during the Busch race on Saturday. Jimmy called it a "dirty move" and made the comment that "Jimmy Never Forgets" during his post race interviews.
The very next day, during the drivers meeting for the Cup race, Mike "we don't react for the sake of reacting" Helton reacted by announcing the new yellow line rule, and the rest, as they say is history.
If it's soo bloody dangerous to go down there, then why on God's green earth is it legal at California and Las Vegas or any other freakin' oval they race on?!?!?!?
"the TRUE first prob with the yellow line happens and everyone wants it gone?"
Its obvious to me that some people here haven't brushed up on their Nascar history, TIC....
Y'all know what the sad thing is. Now NASCAR is going to forced to react because of the fan injuries, and instead of doing away with one obvious problem, they are going to drop the plate size one or two more increments, slowing the cars down even more, and taking away any vestige of throttle response the teams got back by using the COT instead of the old car. I predict they'l be running a 7/8ths plate at Daytona in July. which would be two sizes smaller than they have now (15/16ths). Slower speeds, no acceleration = bigger packs + blocking+yellow line rule= more wrecks.Some fix. But, at least the offical insurance company of NASCAR will be happy
A la F1 & Indycar how about one move/block manoeuvre rule for plate-races?
People don't want to talk about the real issue involved.
The yellow line rule is fine, the real issue is BLOCKING !!!
NASCAR needs to outlaw blocking & penalize drivers that perform it.
Drivers blocking has gotten out of hand & it is time NASCAR does something about it IMO.
IT'S CALLED RACING, blocking a driver from passing is NOT racing, it's stupid. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forum...ongue-anim.gif
No, Brad had nowhere to go on the inside of Carl. Even if he would of passed him without contact, he would of went below the yellow line. The incident could of been avoided. A cheap way for Brad to win.Quote:
Originally Posted by call_me_andrew
Carl just showed he is a class act again during the post race interview.
The same post race interview where he admitted trying to move back down the track only to find that BK was already there? There was no contact until Carl tried to block. That to me says there was plenty of room for Brad to get through without cutting below the yellow.Quote:
Originally Posted by DanicaFan
In any case we've been here before already this season when Joonyer caused a wreck by ducking below the yellow line then moving back up (can't remember where it was - Atlanta?). Someone suggested that what the driver on the inside should do is plant their inside wheels on the yellow line and refuse to budge. Well, Brad obviously listened and now people are bitching about it...
The real problem I think is partly blocking and partly restrictor plates. Can anyone find me a rp race that hasn't been won by someone barging the oppposition out of the way on the last lap?
It was the drivers who asked for the yellow line rule. The problem was that cars were going way down on the apron going down the back straight into turn three (and sometimes into turn one) and when they got to the turn, they had to try to blend back up into traffic, where there may or may not have been room for them.
To do away with the yellow line rule would be a catastrophe.
Hey THE REAL PROBLEM is that Daytona and Talladega are too fast the way they're currently configured and they have to use those damnable restrictor plates. Tear down those high banks and many of the current problems would be solved.
I agree with everything you've said. I said after the Jr incident at daytona according to the rules the only real option for you if a car is coming across the front of you to block is to hold your line and wreck the guy if need be. We are in a situation now that drivers cant use all the available track surface. The yellow line rule has made it difficult for the guy in second place to pass, how many passes were made at Daytona were a car would go inside of a car coming off turn for to the tri oval?, now the 2nd place car has no option because the car ahead is glued to the yellow line.Quote:
Originally Posted by slorydn1
i have been watching since 1988 ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by .
[B
for me this is the true first prob with the yellow line, if we didnt have the yellow line the wrecks wolud be wosre i think
everyone keeps saying get rid of that yellow line, but noone can say how to fix it, i have heard many say, nascar will slow the cars down
thats right slow them down, but when a driver gets a nice run he will run under the yellow line, and we all be back here talking about the same thing,
i have never seen any probs with the yellow line, but more blocking and guys not staying in 1 lane and jummping all over, if i ran Nascar i wolud look into that, but thats just me, whats yr guys ideas? :confused:
I know what u r trying to say, but the facts don't bear that out. I clearly remember the situations Lee Roy was talking about, how people were running out of room trying to blend in entering 1 or 3, especially at Daytona where the radius is tighter. I remember the TV crew would make a big deal out of it, the "What if's" ran rampant ("What If Driver X didn't check up and let him back in....) Then we wold have a 20 car wreck at the entrance of the turn in an area where there are no fans to get hurt (there are NO grandstands in either turn 1 or turn 3 at both plate tracks)....Quote:
Originally Posted by The instant classic
Right now, I'd be willing to compromise and have zones where drivers cant go below the line, but make it legal on the backstretch and in the tri-oval but not in the turns.
I really don't know anymore. The wreck in '87 that caused restrictor plates to be used was a single car accident caused by a cut tire. The car took off on its own and flew into the stands. Back then a lot of the wrecks were just like what you would see at Michigan and California now. But, I am not advocating taking the plates completely off and letting them go 230 either.
Right now the only fix would be to lower the banking and do away with the plates, bring handleing back into play. How long do they run 3 wide at Atlanta and Texas, not very long at all, and they have to slow down to go into the corners. The packs have to be broken up somehow.
Jr's right. The way the cars are right now, the only way you can win a race is to push somone all the way around the track at the end, then make a move in the tri-oval and hope the guy doesn't block, which he will...everytime, guarenteed..
I think we're both right. Wrecks would be caused by doing away with the yellow line rule, but conversely, wrecks are caused by the yellow line rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by slorydn1
Six of one, half dozen of the other.
NASCAR and ISC's lack of will to do anything to do away with restrictor plate racing is the real problem. Everything will just be band-aids until they cure the disease.
I beginning to agree more with you, I just can't remember any wrecks caused by people going there, I just rember several near misses, that could have been ugly "if"..... I can remember several wrecks caused by people worried about getting penalized.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Roy
Or, maybe Stan is closer to being right, its the blocking. But do we REALLY want to hand Nascar another tool to manage the race outcome by outlawing blocking. What happens when Jr blocks and doesn't get called, but they nail Harvick for it. Or, conversely, what happens if the take a win away from Jr because of blocking, especially at dega? Nascar has alerady proven the won't penalize him at 'dega for fear of ugliness from the crowd. So we are back to square one again
great posts by slorydn1 he says it all. The yellow line rule should go.
One thing is for sure... I don't want more rules. Racing isn't supposed to be judged by refrees & out-of-bound lines, it is bordered by concrete & grass and measured by stopwatch.
My solution? Mill rumble-strip grooves below where the yellow line is. No rules about them, nothing so extreme to upset the car when it goes over them, you just don't want to drive down there if you don't have to!
Read the last line of this.
CHARLOTTE, N.C.(AP)—NASCAR officials are not considering changing the racing surface at Talladega Superspeedway following a spectacular last-lap accident that sent debris flying into the grandstands.
Vice president of competition Robin Pemberton says NASCAR will study several different safety standards, including the height of the fences surrounding the track. Carl Edwards’ car sailed into the frontstrech fence, which bowed but held, before the battered vehicle returned to the track.
Debris from the crash injured seven fans. An eighth fan was treated for a medical condition.
NASCAR officials also say they might have to be stricter in policing blocking and aggressive driving during restrictor-plate races.
Stan, your boy Shrubbie got spun out by his enthusiastic blocking. I don't fault him for wanting to jump infront of the faster train, but in the end he spun himself out. If they ban blocking, we will see less of this jumping around and I think then the yellow line rule could go away.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceFanStan
The reason tho they brought it in was the fear and the reality guys would run each other right down on the flat at 190 and launch a guy up the banking and wipe out half the field.
Lap 9 this year....and you have to wonder what would be the point of the yellow line rule.
The whole nature of racing on these tracks just isn't stock racing in the manner it is done at other tracks. In 1958 when Bill Sr. was paving Daytona, I don't think he could have forseen what was to come for speeds.
I think they have created a monster. The fans love this at some level, and the drivers I think for the most part hate it. The quote I heard from Newman when he met up with Edwards was "glad you were alright, next week we will go back to RACING". That sums it up.......this style of racing isn't really what NASCAR has been about. You watch races from the 70's and 80's and you saw cars racing and going one on one. Now they hold the pedal to the floor and play chicken with each other......
I just had my heart in my mouth when the 99 hit the fence. I thought....if anyone is dead up there, that is it for this dog and pony show. We got lucky.....
A year or two ago Jeff Gordon said that he would sooner wreck half the field than go below the yellow line because he was forced. And I for one am perfectly fine with this! And this is from a guy who would like to punish drivers for crashing.
This would at least put it in driver's heads not to block or they'll wind up like Edwards.
There is always an out of bounds. Usually called the grass. How much room do you need?
Imagine if you coud block someone all the way to the grass. And their wheel touches it.
Better to have a bit of a run off, but tell drivers to stay out of it. Surely. Story over.
Move on - nothing more to see here
I get what your saying. But i think we would actually see better racing if drivers didnt have to get hooked up with another car and wind up for a lap to pass on the outside.Quote:
Originally Posted by colinspooky
I think the best solution would be to have yellow lined areas entering and exiting the corners and leaving the straights and tri ovals open so if a guy trys to block you, you have the option to move over a little. you would also be able to move over and get inside a car and make the pass.
I dont think banning blocking is the solution, blocking is part of racing. Taking away a drivers prefered line happens in all forms of racing. But it can go to far, look at Kyle Busch he was going left, right,left zig zagging all over the place. Thats just alittle to far for me.
Yeah, you're right, I mean there's legitimate, safe defending of your position (which IMO is one move in one direction) and there is blatant, unsafe blocking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Haulin'AssAndTurnin Left
It's maybe acceptable at short tracks because the worst that's going to happen, even at Richmond or Dover, is a medium speed pileup, a spin or a semi-hard crash into the wall.
But at Talla-freakin'-dega? The racing is dangerous enough at the plate tracks as it is without stupid driving like Tony Stewart's display last year. That was ridiculously dangerous, Regan Smith had nowhere to go, it could have ended up with them both in the wall, and what happened? The innocent party was demoted to 21st, and the man responsible is allowed to take home the winner's cheque!
I don't think there was much wrong with what happened to Carl, even though it was a nasty crash. Fair play to Edwards for not blaming Keselowski, as there wasn't anything naughty about what he did IMO.
I haven't watched NASCAR for too long, so I'm not fully up on all the rules and penalty systems, but surely they have to take a look at each incident on it's merits and not just say 'he passed below the line, it's illegal'.
For example with Smith and Stewart, Smith is a rookie trying his best to win his first race, it's the last lap, and he was blocked down past the line. Don't penalise him by dropping him to 21st, just reverse the order so he is 2nd.
It's not as if anyone could have passed Smith between when he passed Tony and the finish line. If he'd made an illegal pass on lap 100 and proceeded to hold up the entire field, or ruin someone'race, or inadvertently trigger a crash, then yeah, penalise him 20 places, but not for something that was harmless and 100 yards from the line.
I think they should give that a shot. The car behind should lift and get back inside the yellow line. Whether it'll work in the heat of a battle is another question waiting to be answered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Haulin'AssAndTurnin Left
I remember a couple of wrecks from cars going below the yellow line and then trying to get back into line where there is no room for them before the turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by slorydn1
Haven't seen one in a while because of the yellow line rule. The yellow line rule just changed the place and circumstances of where the wrecks occur. With restrictor plate racing, big wrecks are a certainty. The yellow line rule just changes where they happen.
To tell you the truth, I watched about 5 or 10 laps of the Talladega race on Sunday. Went to church for a nice Evensong service instead of watching. Didn't record it, either.
I hate restrictor plate racing.
You are joking of course. Scrap the yellow line so there is more room to pass. As I said before, ON THE GRASS ?????
If they block down to the yellow line now, they will block to the green line, and if there is a little more concrete there, they will block until they run against something they can run on.
The yellow line just makes so much sense at these speeds packed together.
There has to be a limit somewhere, and running on the grass doesn't make sense to me - unless they have grass tyres fitted too. :rolleyes:
No, I'm not joking. The yellow line rule doesn't matter. You are correct, and I have stated before if you care to find it, without the yellow line rule the cars will fan out down the back-stretch and then there will be a wreck when they try to jam back in the lanes to make the turn. But on the other hand, if they stay within the yellow line, then wrecks are caused because of the yellow line rule. Look up higher and you'll see where slorydn1 has listed a number of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by colinspooky
The real reason for the wrecks is the stupid restrictor plates. Whether you have a yellow line rule or not is irrelevant when it comes to wrecks.
I wish they'd reconfigure the tracks so they no longer needed the plates. The fans of the racing will continue to watch. The fans of the wrecks will go elsewhere for entertainment.
http://www.thatsracin.com/135/story/7980.html
Recommended reading.
At the end of the day racing is dangerous. The drivers know that but seem quite happy to make stupid moves in the draft. I think its about time one of the older drivers got up in a drivers meeting and gave some of these guys a good verbal kickin' for the crap that goes on at restrictor plate races. And now i think about it, isnt it a little rich for Edwards to get on his high horse and say its all NASCAR's fault when last year he pulled one of the dumbest moves Ive ever seen at Dega wrecking his teamates and others. Its a little hypocritical to say its all NASCARs fault if your pulling crap like that.
Yes it is dangerous, apparently for people in the stands as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Haulin'AssAndTurnin Left
As for the older drivers, show me one who is up front and I will show you one who MIGHT be listened to, but to get up front, you often have to "block" by jumping in front of the freight train to get there.
As for Edwards, he is complaining about the restrictor plates putting everyone at the same speed. You can drive one of these cars flat out around Dega without ANY issue. It is only when they are in a giant pack playing with the wind that the dangers start. Guys are going to race. IT is simple as that. That said, this isn't racing like it is for the other 32 weeks of the year. This is playing with the wind, playing a game of chicken jumping in drafts, jumping in front of trains of cars, and hoping like hell someone doesn't zig when they zag.
It is entertaining if you live to watch a big wreck. That said, we evaded a major tragedy when the fence did its job for the most part. Who is to say that next time the car doesn't hit on a different angle and maybe slice into the stands?
The cars go this fast at other venues, but the nature of the wrecks there, and the effects of the throttle mean they are one or two car incidents often, and rarely are the cars even up in the air near the fence. AT Dega and Daytona it is different and it is obvious if you have seen video's of the wrecks at these two tracks. What was a great track design for the late 50's and 60's up into the 80's is NOW not working with the current NASCAR Cup cars. I don't see anyone tearing down the banking because the people who own those tracks also run the sport for the most part. That said, if these two venues were Bruton Smith's, do you want to speculate on how the conversations might go?
Bruton would have to reconfigure the tracks (which he did at Texas 1998 after the fiasco in qualifying).
I wonder if Daytona and Talladega were cut to 12-14 and 14-16 degrees of banking would it affect the racing.
Yes. It would make the racing much better. Of course, in my opinion. But then I remember how it was before the plates.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyC
Hitting the fence with another 50mph may not be a very good idea.
Nascar does need to get rid of the yellow line,either that or shorten the apron as to not allow for passing.Nascar and the track owners well not change the banking at all,that has been said repeatedly over the years,so get rid of the yellow or shorten the apron to the point were you cannot go down and pass,granted the drivers need some room to get out of the way,but a lot of space is not used.