From China, Hamilton in trouble within his own team?

From
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/for...urn-China.html

Already grievously hurt by the damage he did to his own reputation by lying to the stewards over how Jarno Trulli came to pass him under the safety car at the opening round in Australia on March 29, the support network Hamilton has counted on for more than a decade was falling down around him in the Shanghai paddock


Several of the mechanics at McLaren, the Surrey-based team whose golden boy he has been since falling under their wing as a sensational 13-year-old karter, have
deserted him — for deserting them.



The rank and file here are still furious that Dave Ryan, an employee for 35 years, was sacked for his role in the cheating scandal.

Ryan was undoubtedly culpable as the only McLaren man other than Hamilton to enter
the stewards’ room to spin the deceit. But the fact that the multimillionaire sought to
shift the majority of the blame on to the sporting director hastened his departure.
One team insider, who wished to remain anonymous, said: ‘They have all known Davey for many, many years and are upset he became the fall guy. Then there was the talk of Lewis threatening to quit the team. That did not go down well because we feel he should have shown more support after the work we’ve done for him. The guys put all the hours in and don’t get anywhere near the rewards he does.’
Hamilton has worn a haunted look all weekend. He agreed to speak to the press only after the FIA ruling body wrote to McLaren to remind them that Article 35.2 of the sporting regulations required him to do so at all ‘reasonable’ times.

He had spent Thursday, which is usually set aside for media engagements in the build-up to a race, in the McLaren hospitality area rather than fulfilling his normal press duties.
On Friday, McLaren changed their schedule under duress. There would be a brief media scrum conducted in a cramped doorway. The Tannoy was just a few feet away, broadcasting to the circuit and drowning out Hamilton’s words for all but those reporters closest to him.

I'm picking up vibes: Lewis Hamilton has become unpopular in recent weeks with his team
His answers were curt and clipped. There is a suggestion that he read every condemnatory word of the newspaper coverage of his indiscretion and felt let down.
But his manner, uncharacteristically abrupt, was essentially a reflection of his mood — disenchantment reinforced by isolation. He failed to commit himself to seeing out his contract and was less than effusive about Ron Dennis, his supposed mentor who stepped down as chairman of the McLaren Group as part of an inelegant solution to satisfy demands from the company’s major shareholders — Mercedes and the
Bahrain royal family.

They were furious that McLaren — and their good name — was in the dock again just two years after Spygate and the £50million fine they received for having Ferrari’s technical data in their possession.

So here was Hamilton in the middle of a storm and facing possible censure — including expulsion from the championship — from the governing body which he believes has previously given him less than a fair break.

One McLaren insider said: ‘We can’t afford to give the FIA an inch.’

While there may be those that do not like the slant of the article as to the interview referenced in the article, here is from autosport:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74522

Q. Have you spoken to Ron Dennis?

LH: No.

Q. Do you intend to?

LH: I will do at some stage.

Q. What was your feeling last night then when you heard he had gone?

LH: I wasn't disappointed. I was surprised, but I had not heard about it. I was just as surprised as the rest of my team.

But it must be difficult because of your relationship, to see him step back like that?

LH: Of course. Ron has been a huge force and support in my life, and he still plays a key role in my life. Whether or not he is in the team or not, I think you guys have been writing about it for years that as soon as he gets to a certain stage he will move aside. I guess, I don't know why, he decided to do it now.

Q. Did you get the signal from the people around the team that he was happier for making this decision?

LH: I honestly haven't spoken to anyone about it. I heard just as the team did yesterday. I went away last night with it.

Q. Is there a mood within the team for a new beginning?

LH: Not that I have seen, no.

AND AFTER THE RACE:



http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74646
.
Q. How was your car?
LH: Not very good.
Q. Is there a hope it will improve for the next few races?
LH: I don't know, I have to speak to my team, but I hope so because we need as much improvement as possible so we will keep pushing.
.
Q. Pushing too hard at times in a car that wasn't ready to be pushed that hard?
LH: For sure all weekend I have been pushing that car beyond its limits, and beyond what it is really capable of. Today just proved it, especially when the tyres dropped off, I just wasn't able to avoid the oversteer moments.

Not remotely surprised, I'm afraid. I said at the time that LH using the "I was told to lie" excuse would not go down well, and it seems to be true. :down:

I cheered Lewis along all last season and the season before, and I have to admit he has disappointed me greatly after the latest scandal.
If he had been man enough to admit to his mistake rather than push all the blame elsewhere, and backed the team that has spent so much time, money, and energy backing him throughout his career, then I would have more respect for him.

I feel let down as an F1 fan.

Daily Mail, purveyors of fine quality toilet paper since the 19th century and a reliable and insightful source for the latest F1 news since, never.
interesting quotes you picked, didn't want to go with;
Hamilton:
“But I found a good pace and had some fun in the opening laps"

"I made a few too many mistakes today. "

"I’m glad I got some points for the team.”


Whitmarsh:
"Lewis pressed hard all afternoon – and, when you do that, occasionally you run wide or spin. Lewis duly did so – but, in truth, his was a great drive, too."

no, wouldn't want to risk putting a positive "slant" on things.
I suppose it is kind of fitting that the Daily Mail should become a news source for F1 fans since the sport has become a massive prolonged joke.

btw you forgot to mention kool aid in your post, (you can edit it)

yodasarmpit, i just don't know what Lewis will do without your respect :(

I've pretty much reached the end of the road with both F1 and the sanctimonious internet dip$h!ts who inhabit this forum,

I'll give indy another try, its a joke too but the punchline is funnier,
and of course I won't make the mistake of joining an internet forum again, (surely the most convenient way to meet some of the dullest and most obnoxious cry babies on earth)

later.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mifune

I've pretty much reached the end of the road with both F1 and the sanctimonious internet dip$h!ts who inhabit this forum,

I'll give indy another try, its a joke too but the punchline is funnier,
and of course I won't make the mistake of joining an internet forum again, (surely the most convenient way to meet some of the dullest and most obnoxious cry babies on earth)

later.

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Cheerio!

The Mail is the same paper who, at the height of Liegate, went absolutely OTT about Lewis speeding in the pitlane during practice - a fairly common transgression. He was made out to be an arrogant and dangerous a-hole for going 4kph over the limit.

Remember, this is the same paper who drummed up the Russell Brand / Jonathon Ross storm, two listeners complained at the time and nobody really cared until the Mail stuck their beak in and whipped up the blue-rinse brigade who buy their crap.

I wouldn't buy their paper if it came with a free gold ingot.

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

The Mail is the same paper who, at the height of Liegate, went absolutely OTT about Lewis speeding in the pitlane during practice - a fairly common transgression. He was made out to be an arrogant and dangerous a-hole for going 4kph over the limit.

Remember, this is the same paper who drummed up the Russell Brand / Jonathon Ross storm, two listeners complained at the time and nobody really cared until the Mail stuck their beak in and whipped up the blue-rinse brigade who buy their crap.

I wouldn't buy their paper if it came with a free gold ingot.

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Daily Mail = Daily Conservative. A bunch of public school hooray henry's who were no doubt 8ugg3r3d sensless at boarding school......

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

I wouldn't buy their paper if it came with a free gold ingot.

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Seconded.

Regardless, I've seen this story elsewhere and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it was true. Hamilton trying to shift the blame would hardly go down well with the mechanics, especially if McLaren were banned after this court hearing (and that's still only an "if").

Or, if no further action is taken they can get on and rebuild their relationship. But tensions will be high in that team, I have no doubt of that.

I thought the worse was the attitude Hamilton expressed in the interview and on a video clip about Ron Dennis I saw......struck me as perfect, I mean perfect confirmation of what the Sun article was talking about....

The guy has again ratted on his team about his lying, used Ryan as a scapegoat over the lie that he told to get one measley point....and has never taken any individual responsibility in his so-called "apology"

But so what?

Q. Have you spoken to Ron Dennis?

LH: No.

Q. Do you intend to?

LH: I will do at some stage.

Q. What was your feeling last night then when you heard he had gone?

LH: I wasn't disappointed. I was surprised, but I had not heard about it. I was just as surprised as the rest of my team.

"I guess, I don't know why, he decided to do it now."


As in.... oh yawn, ron gone??
Sort of rhymes, don't it

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Originally Posted by Mifune

yodasarmpit, i just don't know what Lewis will do without your respect :(

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I respect him as a great driver, but not so much as a man.
I hope he works through this period, shows some loyalty to those behind the scenes who have worked their arses off getting him to this position and becomes both a better man and driver.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mifune

I've pretty much reached the end of the road with both F1 and the sanctimonious internet dip$h!ts who inhabit this forum,

I'll give indy another try, its a joke too but the punchline is funnier,
and of course I won't make the mistake of joining an internet forum again, (surely the most convenient way to meet some of the dullest and most obnoxious cry babies on earth)

later.

---

I think you should apologise to the guys here for this comment; it is uncalled for. I am just speaking out as a forum member, but I do think I have a right to register my disappointment in your remarks. (Apology to the mods if I overstepped the mark here).

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Daily Mail = Daily Conservative. A bunch of public school hooray henry's who were no doubt 8ugg3r3d sensless at boarding school......

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:eek: :eek:

after the last month will he be spending his whole racing career at mclaren


all you massa bashers from silverstone :p
are you now going to say the same about lewis

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Originally Posted by markabilly

From
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/for...urn-China.html

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STOP RIGHT THERE!

Frankly, Hamilton has lost my support over this scandal as well, but Daily Mail? :confused: Really? Are we getting that low now that we are quoting Daily Mail here? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by markabilly

"I guess, I don't know why, he decided to do it now."


As in.... oh yawn, ron gone??
Sort of rhymes, don't it

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Hamilton is fed up with the press asking him the same question over and over again. Ron said he was going to leave the team sooner or later, so why is Hamilton's reaction such a big shock? Not as if Lewis won't be able to driver without Ron holding his hand.

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Originally Posted by gloomyDAY

Hamilton is fed up ......Not as if Lewis won't be able to driver without Ron holding his hand.

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I suppose Ron had better hope he is all fed up, otherwise he might have to worry about the hand holding, as it seems Lewis is more than willing to bite the hand that fed him, so hand holding would appear to be just as bad of an idea......

but all in all, I suppose they deserved each other, so maybe it all balances out :D

just ask Ryan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by markabilly

I suppose Ron had better hope he is all fed up, otherwise he might have to worry about the hand holding, as it seems Lewis is more than willing to bite the hand that fed him, so hand holding would appear to be just as bad of an idea......

but all in all, I suppose they deserved each other, so maybe it all balances out :D

just ask Ryan

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Ryan is gone, as is Ron, so leave them out of the picture. Hamilton can get on well without being coaxed by his engineer into taking a turn faster to meet his car's potential (just ask Massa). McLaren are going through a hard time again, but I'm sure their management will enable them to get out of this heap.

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Originally Posted by gloomyDAY

Ryan is gone, as is Ron, so leave them out of the picture. .

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Okay Ryan and Ron gone..
Oh yawn :s nore: .


I can hear hamilton now at the hearing:

alas poor Ron, I knew him, MaX
a man of infinite mechanical talents, of most excellent team strategy,
he hath bore me on his back a number of times; and, now how abhorred in my imagination he is.....

It is always the same they are all heroes before reaching the top and then....

There are going to be some LH fans who are gong to hate me for saying this, but really i feel that this is just Lewis's true colours coming out.

When Alonso was at the team, for sure Fernando made things hard on himself from time to time, but there is no doubt whatsoever that Lewis and his father played the team and the media expertly to make Lewis look like the poor rookie being picked on and Fernando look like an arrogant asshole.

And two years on lets see that state of play, Fernando is loved by his Renault team, he is now recongnised in the paddock as one of the nice guys in F1, and Hamilton is shown to be a lier and even his own team has turned on him. Sorry but Lewis is far from innocent and i'm sure there is one Fernando Alonso who would be sitting in his motorhome with a big smile on his face saying "karma Mr. Hamilton... karma"

The whole team is under the microscope with everyone and their dog writing an opinion in the press.

McLaren are in trouble and rather than pick the bones, I think it's time for them to put up the shutters, get sorted within themselves and put this all behind them.

There are obviously some that relish this situation but I wouldn't want to see any team go through this because of the mistakes of a few people.

No team or driver is "evil" or deserving of hate so lets get this in perspective. They have done a couple of things that are wrong and are suffering for them big time. The Daily mail love this sort of divicive situation.

Very sad situation.

And speaking of Shakespeare and fallen heroes......

Ron at the hearing:
"et tu, Lewis..."

Knock-on - Is it a sad situation for Lewis and Mclaren? Yes it is. Did they bring it on themselfs? Absolutely!

Fact is Mclaren are the team who keep having these problems, First it was the Hamilton V Alonso thing which caused Mclaren to loose the driver many feel to be the best F1 currently has (myself included). Then they get caught and convicted of blatent cheating in stealing information from Ferrari. Now they blatently and intentionally lie in a stewards hearing in order to have another driver penalised.

Doesn't matter which way you paint the fence, whether you think the FIA is harsh on them or not, fact is these things don't happen to Williams, don't happen to Red Bull, don't happen to most other teams in F1, but it keeps happening to Mclaren, WHY? I refuse to accept its all just an FIA vandeta against Ron Dennis

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Originally Posted by RJL25

paint the fence

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Show me 'sand the floor' ;)

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Originally Posted by RJL25

When Alonso was at the team, for sure Fernando made things hard on himself from time to time, but there is no doubt whatsoever that Lewis and his father played the team and the media expertly to make Lewis look like the poor rookie being picked on and Fernando look like an arrogant asshole.

And two years on lets see that state of play, Fernando is loved by his Renault team, he is now recongnised in the paddock as one of the nice guys in F1, and Hamilton is shown to be a lier and even his own team has turned on him. Sorry but Lewis is far from innocent and i'm sure there is one Fernando Alonso who would be sitting in his motorhome with a big smile on his face saying "karma Mr. Hamilton... karma"

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This is modern F1. It's called the Piranha Club for no reason.

Alonso was hardly a saint at McLaren, was he? Blackmailling your employers and throwing your toys out the pram isn't exactly actions of model citizen, is it?

Time has allowed some redemption for Alonso and Schumi by letting their driving do talking. Same will happen with Hamilton - have you noticed yet he's dragged a crappy McLaren into the points from nowhere, just as Schumi did the same in Monaco 2006 after his shenanigans in qualy.

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Originally Posted by wedge

Alonso was hardly a saint at McLaren, was he? Blackmailling your employers and throwing your toys out the pram isn't exactly actions of model citizen, is it?

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I never said he was a saint, I did say that he brought a lot of things on himself, but never foget that most of what Alonso had allegedly done was never actually proven, it was all just media reports from the BRITTISH media who at the time where in love with their new sporting darling... Hamilton knew this, played up to this, and created an environment which was impossible for Alonso to participate in.

Alonso was hired as the double world champion, Hamilton was a rookie, now regardless of who has more talent then who, fact is Alonso had a huge amount of experience to Hamilton's zero experience, so which driver do you think was doing the majority, if not all of the development work on the car? Bearing in mind of course that Mclaren where initially very slow in winter testing that year and Ron Dennis was on record as saying that Alonso's input moved the car forward considerably.

So based on that, was it really that unreasonable for Fernando to want to have the team support him?

Hamilton played the media, he played the team, he made a decision to lie in a stewards hearing, doesn't matter who told him to do it, at the end of the day he has to take responsibility that HE CHOSE to do it at the end of the day. Now that Mclaren are no longer any good to him, are no longer giving him a competitive car, well stuff them time to cut ties....poor attitude.

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Originally Posted by RJL25

...it was all just media reports...

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It still is. The media vultures need a story - any story - and they need to get it first. If they can't get cast iron facts they go with what scraps they can find, from where ever they can find them, or they mix 'n' match fact and fiction to make a headline. The headline creates its own story which then takes on a life of its own. By that time the 'facts' don't really matter much.

:crazy:

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Originally Posted by yodasarmpit

I cheered Lewis along all last season and the season before, and I have to admit he has disappointed me greatly after the latest scandal.
If he had been man enough to admit to his mistake rather than push all the blame elsewhere, and backed the team that has spent so much time, money, and energy backing him throughout his career, then I would have more respect for him.

I feel let down as an F1 fan.

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He did man up, he held a PC against the recommendation of McLaren, and made a full public apology and explanation of what happened.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RJL25

I never said he was a saint, I did say that he brought a lot of things on himself, but never foget that most of what Alonso had allegedly done was never actually proven, it was all just media reports from the BRITTISH media who at the time where in love with their new sporting darling... Hamilton knew this, played up to this, and created an environment which was impossible for Alonso to participate in.

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Alonso himself ruined the environmen when he tried to blackmail Ron.

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Bearing in mind of course that Mclaren where initially very slow in winter testing that year and Ron Dennis was on record as saying that Alonso's input moved the car forward considerably.

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Bull Bull Bull, typical alonso fanboy bull.
Mclaren was really fast that year in winter testing even before Alonso had done even one lap in the car.

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Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

He did man up, he held a PC against the recommendation of McLaren, and made a full public apology and explanation of what happened.

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No. He behaved like a weasel and used Ryan as a scapegoat, instead of admitting that he just lied. He said he was mislead, when in reality he is a lying piece of crap.

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Originally Posted by RJL25

So based on that, was it really that unreasonable for Fernando to want to have the team support him?

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Alonso wasn't exactly destroying Hamilton, was he? Hamilton was consistantly on the podium and therefore a genuine WDC candidate.

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

No. He behaved like a weasel and used Ryan as a scapegoat, instead of admitting that he just lied. He said he was mislead, when in reality he is a lying piece of crap.

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Evidence?

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Originally Posted by wedge

Evidence?

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Did you read what Hamilton said in his oh so honest PC? He said he was mislead, instead of admitting he tried to lie and get away with it.

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Bull Bull Bull, typical alonso fanboy bull.
Mclaren was really fast that year in winter testing even before Alonso had done even one lap in the car.

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Firstly i'm not spannish, i'm australian, i'm a webber fan, not an alonso fan. But brutal statistics say Alonso is the best driver in F1 at the moment, fact.

And no, Mclaren where not fast initially in winter testing, they where not backmarker material, but they wheren't super fast by any stretch, Ferrari and BMW both appeared to have their measure untill Melbourne came along when both Alonso and Hamilton surprised everyone with their pace.

Perhaps your the fanboy here???

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Originally Posted by RJL25

Firstly i'm not spannish, i'm australian, i'm a webber fan, not an alonso fan.

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I didnt say you were spanish, I said you were a typical Alonso fan and I stand by it.

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But brutal statistics say Alonso is the best driver in F1 at the moment, fact.

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You mean like his rookie teammate beating him over a season?
Or Trulli beating him over a season? Yep, greatest ever.

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And no, Mclaren where not fast initially in winter testing, they where not backmarker material, but they wheren't super fast by any stretch, Ferrari and BMW both appeared to have their measure untill Melbourne came along when both Alonso and Hamilton surprised everyone with their pace.

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Take a look at the wintertesting stats from 2006 december to 2007 march, then get on your knees and come back to me and apologize.

For your info, a quick check on that years winter testing reveals that out of all the testing sessions where more than 1 team was present, Ferrari topped 10 days and McLaren only...10 days. No other team came close.

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Perhaps your the fanboy here???

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Probably, but at least I am the not the one who was caught making up bull with my pants down.

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Originally Posted by wedge

Evidence?

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Read the various quotes by him. No where does Hamilton take any individual responsibility. Instead, it is blame the team, I was mislead and I am now so upset by the team misleading me, I am thinking of quiting. He even had his pop call Max.

And just how can he be "mislead" by the team, when he jumps out of his car and when the first mike is shoved under his nose, he tells the story about letting Trulli by without any quibling.

Only later when he is obviously told of the chance to gain a point by saying otherwise, does he suddenly have a different story to tell, a story that he told not only once but twice to the FIA, right from his own mouth.

What is interesting, is that it really comes down to his subjective intent. You might look at the objective evidence and conclude his subjective intent to be different from what he claims, but the person who knows most clearly is Hamilton----just as the case with Schumacher at Monaco.

But in this particular case, he had clearly already told a different story, an interview that Ryan had probably not heard, (because if anyone with common sense was planning a "lie", he woud be an idiot to go forward while being fully aware that one of the participants had already clearly told a completely different story on tape where it was recorded).

And the reports are that when at the second meeting, Hamilton was confronted with the radio interview quotes, he started becoming very "uncomfortable" and a short time later, we have pop calling max and so forth.

So he recants and rats out his own team. He is not turning over emails that he was ordered to turn over after Max threatens with a ban, and he can not point to anyone except himself as to the words that came out of his own mouth, but try he does, and apparently succeeds with Ryan's dismissal.

Finally, just when did Senna or Schumacher blame the team as being responsible for Monaco or the other incidents they were involved with.

Senna would never have said, well i did not really want to, but Ron told me to run Prost off.....or Schumacher said, I did not want to bump Hill, but the team mislead me......

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Originally Posted by markabilly

Finally, just when did Senna or Schumacher blame the team as being responsible for Monaco or the other incidents they were involved with.

Senna would never have said, well i did not really want to, but Ron told me to run Prost off.....or Schumacher said, I did not want to bump Hill, but the team mislead me......

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Lewis lied yes....we still have to read that here like daily *sigh*...But thank god he so far not donne any of the actions you mentioned..actions that are to me far worse !

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Originally Posted by TL

Lewis lied yes....we still have to read that here like daily *sigh*...But thank god he so far not donne any of the actions you mentioned..actions that are to me far worse !

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It is not that he told the initial lie that I find so offensive, and those other actoins may well be far worse, it is his cowardly way of dealing with it, when things come apart.

Tossing Ryan and team under the bus while refusing to step to the plate.
Demonstrates a lack of character that one can not say about Senna or Schumacher (and Schumacher took it on the chin for a couple of those transgressions)

It's hardly suprising Lewis and Mclaren want to lie low for a while and avoid any further embarrassment or attention. I hope they can move past this in time... but as a fan of theirs I can't help but feel a bit let down by their conduct. I'm dissapointed for Lewis too but it's not at all suprising to see him feeling the way he appears to. I'd be advising him to steer clear of the limelight for a while too I think.

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Originally Posted by markabilly

It is not that he told the initial lie that I find so offensive, and those other actoins may well be far worse, it is his cowardly way of dealing with it, when things come apart.

Tossing Ryan and team under the bus while refusing to step to the plate.
Demonstrates a lack of character that one can not say about Senna or Schumacher (and Schumacher took it on the chin for a couple of those transgressions)

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well ya...I also admit he let us Hamilton fans down there..and could have dealed with things in a better way..But I am not goin to blame everything on him either as I don't know what happened inbetween te interview he gave to the journalists right after the race and the stewards meeting...