Lack of manufacturers in wrc

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16th January 2009, 12:20
Finni

Lack of manufacturers in wrc

There has been thousands of reasons for the lack of manufacturers in the wrc but one of the most important reason is lack of succes. Subaru, Skoda Mitsubishi and Suzuki have gone primarily because they failed to win races.

Some manufacturers came in like wishfull amateurs without proper plan and proper resources. In the realm of Citroen and Ford you need really professional work with the car and even that's not enough. In rallying you need also top-notch driver. I think this was also problem with Mitsubishi. In the hands of Loeb, Grönholm or Solberg Mitsubishi would have been contender for race wins. In rallying real top-notch driver is huge factor (Imagine if Citroen had been without Loeb, Subaru without Solberg and Ford without Grönholm).
16th January 2009, 13:20
Bazza2541

How quickly you seem to have forgot Tommi?
16th January 2009, 14:13
Finni

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bazza2541

How quickly you seem to have forgot Tommi?

Tommi who? :D

I commented about recent situations.
16th January 2009, 20:21
sollitt

I think Mitsubishi left because the tin was empty.
16th January 2009, 21:15
Helstar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finni

I think this was also problem with Mitsubishi. In the hands of Loeb, Grönholm or Solberg Mitsubishi would have been contender for race wins.

Are you talking about the crappy Lancer of 2004-2005 or what ?
16th January 2009, 23:17
Finni

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helstar

Are you talking about the crappy Lancer of 2004-2005 or what ?

If Rovanperä is good indication Mitsu was not slower than 307 in many rallies.
16th January 2009, 23:44
A.F.F.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sollitt

I think Mitsubishi left because the tin was empty.

Sorry, what does that mean?
17th January 2009, 00:21
Motorsportfun

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helstar

Are you talking about the crappy Lancer of 2004-2005 or what ?

Mitsubishi Lancers were not as crappy as you think! Watch what Gigi Galli and Rovanpera did in the latter part of the 2005 season, when they had the first results to the development programme. Galli fought for the victory against Loeb (Loeb who?) in Turkey, then Rovanpera had a great rally in Australia, etc. ;)

But the truth is that Mitsubishi had a giant crisis inside the company, so they decided to cut a lot of investments in motorsport, dropping part of the programme for the Dakar too (Valeo sponsor entered with Luc Alphand at the end of 2005). :o :cool:
17th January 2009, 01:02
Daniel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motorsportfun

Rovanpera had a great rally in Australia, etc. ;)

You seem to forget that Loeb, Solberg and Gronholm were all out of the rally.
17th January 2009, 04:44
Helstar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motorsportfun

Mitsubishi Lancers were not as crappy as you think!

Lancer was crap. Clearly slower compared to Citroen, Subaru, Peugeot and Ford. Only same speed of Skoda ^^ (maybe little bit better). But totally unreliable.

We are saying the same thing: the drivers were good and some SS times show it. But they never achieved acceptable results because of the mechanical problems (of course you remember Gigi in Sweden, Argentina, Turkey or Rovanpera in Japan) and drivers errors (they were overdriving it to be competitive to the other people times, look Gigi in Finland/Japan/Spain or Rovanpera in Sardinia where he damaged a suspension while was 3rd).
As Daniel says 2nd position for Harri in Australia was, well, luck ^^ normally it would have been a 5th position.
17th January 2009, 05:13
sollitt

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.F.F.

Sorry, what does that mean?

No money left.
17th January 2009, 08:34
Daniel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helstar

As Daniel says 2nd position for Harri in Australia was, well, luck ^^ normally it would have been a 5th position.

Yep.... next we'll have people saying hat Duval is a talented driver on gravel because he won that rally :D
17th January 2009, 08:35
A.F.F.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sollitt

No money left.

Ok, cheers. Never heard of that expression. :up:
17th January 2009, 12:11
JFL

Gardemeister did pretty well in it(mitsu) in RN07 as a privateer, before he went off..
4th February 2009, 12:07
Rally Hokkaido

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motorsportfun

But the truth is that Mitsubishi had a giant crisis inside the company, so they decided to cut a lot of investments in motorsport, dropping part of the programme for the Dakar too (Valeo sponsor entered with Luc Alphand at the end of 2005). :o :cool:

And just when their sales were starting to recover from the 'truck hub bolt failure' scandal, the current economic crisis hit carmakers.

Today in Japan, Mitsubishi announced it will regrettably be ending its Dakar rally raid programme.
4th February 2009, 12:59
Barreis

Don't worry about manufacturers.. S2000 willl give us plenty of them..
Subaru gone?! So what? If Lada can build S2000 rally car that's it.. Same rules for everybody..
4th February 2009, 13:48
J.Lindstroem

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barreis

Don't worry about manufacturers.. S2000 willl give us plenty of them..
Subaru gone?! So what? If Lada can build S2000 rally car that's it.. Same rules for everybody..

I was also sure of this for a couple of months ago. With having S2000 rules in Wrc we could in a couple of years have 10 manufactures. But with this S2000+ rule i don't know anmore. Skoda have said that they are only interested in running the simple S2000. Maybe thats the case for all the other carmakes also?
4th February 2009, 13:57
AndyRAC

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.Lindstroem

I was also sure of this for a couple of months ago. With having S2000 rules in Wrc we could in a couple of years have 10 manufactures. But with this S2000+ rule i don't know anmore. Skoda have said that they are only interested in running the simple S2000. Maybe thats the case for all the other carmakes also?

Could always let democracy take over - vote for who wants S2000 or S2000+.
4th February 2009, 13:59
J.Lindstroem

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyRAC

Could always let democracy take over - vote for who wants S2000 or S2000+.

Isnt it only Citroen and Abarth who has shown interest of S2000+?
4th February 2009, 14:36
RS

Abarth have shown an interest in S2000+ but they also said that normal S2000 would be easier.
4th February 2009, 14:40
Brother John

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyRAC

Could always let democracy take over - vote for who wants S2000 or S2000+.

The + means only money. and who has money at the moment? :dozey:
4th February 2009, 15:16
ProRally

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother John

The + means only money. and who has money at the moment? :dozey:

NOBODY, it is going to be difficult 2009 and 2010 seasons !!

So I would say, no expensive S2000+
15th February 2009, 17:57
Megablade

I've just been watching the WRC rewiev of the 1992 season. Its been said before in here, but where has our sport gone. The cars back then were alot more spectacular to watch, and the rallies were run over around 40 stages, some of them in the dark. I'm not that old, but I still have to say the words: It used to be better in those days... :rolleyes:
15th February 2009, 19:55
Ghostwalker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megablade

I've just been watching the WRC rewiev of the 1992 season. Its been said before in here, but where has our sport gone. The cars back then were alot more spectacular to watch, and the rallies were run over around 40 stages, some of them in the dark. I'm not that old, but I still have to say the words: It used to be better in those days... :rolleyes:

yeah i remember sometime long ago when me and dad went an evening to watch one of the evening stages of the Swedish rally and we found this great place, a pace where the rally cars emerged from the forrest quite far away and then they accelerated on long straight in an open landscape. And we car and still have a perfect view of the cars that went by.

Also the spectators places, fewer amount of stages and an increased crowd(?) means that all spectator places are overcrowded and its takes forever to get there because of parking problems and walking distance.

Because of the latter you are almost forced to select 1 stage/day and stay there coz' there is no chance in H* that you could get to another stage in time now that the best cars goes first.
15th February 2009, 21:20
FabiaFan

Let it switch to S2000 from 2010 !!!

(Mosley's got right...sadly...) In S2000, there are already 3 manufacturers (hopefully Fiat won't give up after its disappointing performance, blaming it on the crisis...) and Citroën is ready to enter... so do not waste another year!!!!!