Singapore: The Future of F1

We haven't seen any track action yet but already the night race in Singapore is being seen by some as the future direction for F1.

Having races at a convenient time zone for Euopean TV viewers, and so introducing the novelty of racing at night, is far from a new idea. Ok, it's new to F1 but other sports have been doing this kind of thing for a long time, and it looks like the lights will make it appear as if it were daytime anyway. So what's the big deal?

In addition, Nick Fry was quoted in F1 Racing as saying this is just the start. In a couple of years we could be seeing two races during a weekend, and reverse grids, all because F1 is entertainment and must put on a good show.

Well, yes, but...Isn't this an argument that applies to tv itself? There's long been the argument that tv is catering for the lowest common demoninator in order to capture viewers and so we end up with dozens of "celebrity" entertainment shows in various, but similar, formats.

F1 is a 'tv sport' now, of that there is little doubt, and increasingly the demands of tv are determining the shape of the sport both in terms of money and format. That may be fine for the casual viewer, and there are many more of those than genuine F1 enthusiasts, but as an enthusiast for F1 who doesn't just tune in to see the end result I have real concerns about the direction F1 is going in.

I can see a time, not so far away, when in the rush for entertainment we lose the essence of what F1 is, and what makes it unique, and will see the sport become just another 'made for tv' entertainment show.

Any thoughts?

I think that turning one of the best ever racing sports into a business is good for those involved in it's marketing side and bad for those who loved F1, like the older fans.

I certainly prefer them running on sweeping bends through the woods than watching them brake and turn 90 degrees left and right in the middle of a city.

Never been a street racing fan!

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Originally Posted by ioan

I think that turning one of the best ever racing sports into a business is good for those involved in it's marketing side...

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It seems from this report it's rather more than just those involved in the marketing side that benefit:

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Investing in Formula One races still makes good financial sense for governments despite the huge sanctioning fees demanded by the sport's commercial boss Bernie Ecclestone, claims a new research document.

The ING Investment Index states that governments of nations hosting F1 races invested a total of 275 million dollars (US) in hosting races, while receiving a return of 1.52 billion dollars for their local economies.

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Arrows its sad but yes F1 and many other sports will head the same way just like Cricket has gone since the T20 (read IPL) circus started.

Some people want to call it the evolution of the sport but I prefer to call it the dumbing down to entertain all and sundry.

:(

I like the idea of night races, just no more street circuits. Imagine a track like Spa at night !!!!! That would be a sight :up:

It wouldn't surprise me if F1 turned into a glorified club meeting with multiple sprint races on Sunday.

WRC - series of sprints, no longer test of endurance

GTs - 2hr races

well Max, I salute you!

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

I like the idea of night races...

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Could you explain why though? The lights recreate daylight very effectively it seems, so the only difference we'll see is the night sky.

The idea of reverse grid races in f1 is silly. There is usually so little difference between the top few guys that it would hand the win to the fastest guy in the mid field. Would we see tactical qualifying? This would be a real shame.

There seems to be a big hullaballoo about night races. After watching the Qatar MotoGP, I can't say I was knocked out by it. It just looked like a normal race - the lights are that good. With safety being a priority (quite rightly) you can't race in anything less than daylight.
It would have been interesting if they had to put a lamp pod on the front like the McLaren spoof.
As for the main point - all sport seems to be going that way - it's now a business first, sport second. Sadly, as a Rallyfan - it's been ruined by trying to sell itself for TV, now, nobody gives a care for it. I fully understand modern sport is big business, but it should never forget it's heritage, and were it came from - sadly that doesn't interest the money men/or Bernie!!

Yes I am not sure if the night race is going to be very different if its as bright as sunlight (well it has to be for safety purposes)....surely it helps sports like football where the lights add that little something extra to the spectacle.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Could you explain why though? The lights recreate daylight very effectively it seems, so the only difference we'll see is the night sky.

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Part of the spectacle. Car gleaming under lights, glowing brake discs.

IMO a cheaper way is to get rid of the plank and go back to skid blocks for the sparks.

There's cynicism in F1 because there's more things wrong in F1 than there is right. There's no great tradition of night racing in Europe at grassroots level apart from 24hr races and rallying. That's why its more acceptable in America - not because of show biz but because it goes back to Friday/Saturday night racing on the dirt tracks where plenty of NASCAR drivers learnt their trade.

Night races, street circuits - good.

Reverse grids, more than one race a weekend? - NO THANKS. This is not touring cars, it is the pinnacle of motorsport - and the pinnacle of motorsport needs to reward the best, not the luckiest.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Well, yes, but...Isn't this an argument that applies to tv itself? There's long been the argument that tv is catering for the lowest common demoninator in order to capture viewers and so we end up with dozens of "celebrity" entertainment shows in various, but similar, formats.

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Fortunately ITV have lost the rights to F1 otherwise I can well imagine they'd be pushing for "celebrity" races with Vernon Kaye, Ant & Dec, Jeremy Kyle et al racing. :p

I agree that F1 needs to make itself more accessable to the "man in the street" but it needs to do so without diluting the purity of the sport or binning half a century of history and tradition.

Singapore is looking like great entertainment, but precisely because it's somewhat of a novelty. Start making all the races gimmicky and it loses the very think which makes it unique.

If it was up to me, I'd cancel ALL in-city circuits (except Monaco because it's Monaco not that I'm totally convinced) & only allow them on purpose-built circuits & parks. Melbourne or Montreal count as real circuits, but I think that the latter needs modifications!

Night-racing, city-street racing etc aren't good for F1.

I don't like Singapore, don't like Valencia and I don't like Monaco, F1 should stick with circuits like Spa, Monza, Suzuka :up:

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

and reverse grids, all because F1 is entertainment and must put on a good show.

I can see a time, not so far away, when in the rush for entertainment we lose the essence of what F1 is, and what makes it unique, and will see the sport become just another 'made for tv' entertainment show.

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Reverse grids are cool and F1 needs to be a show:
http://lc.k12.mn.us/StudentSites/ECo...rne_26_jpg.jpg

Put a Force India up the front and in the way of a fast charging Renault or Ferrari. Let's so how many lulz we can generate.

There should be different types of circuits.

Today's tracks are super smooth and near perfect. Street racing has its unique challenges - crowning pavement, huge bumps.

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Originally Posted by Rollo

Put a Force India up the front and in the way of a fast charging Renault or Ferrari. Let's so how many lulz we can generate.

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I know you well enough to know you're being sarcastic. If some people watch motorsport for the crashes then that's their lookout, personally I want to see racers racing, not being taken away on stretchers. Ralf's flying lesson may have been spectacular to watch but we don't want to see accidents like that being repeated.

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Originally Posted by wedge

Today's tracks are super smooth and near perfect. Street racing has its unique challenges - crowning pavement, huge bumps.

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And from what I've seen of the Singapore circuit so far it looks a worthy addition to the calendar. It'll be interesting to read/hear the drivers' views.

Still, I'm not convinced by racing under the lights. It's just a gimick as far as I'm concerned. Nick Fry's comments suggest it's just the beginning of a series of new "innovations" designed to grab the casual viewers' attention.

Watching practice right now and I have the impression this is a very poor stop and go circuit. :(

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Could you explain why though? The lights recreate daylight very effectively it seems, so the only difference we'll see is the night sky.

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I see lights as a gimmick, to be absolutely honest. The reason I like the idea is it brings the race time to a decent time for most people who are avid F1 viewers and I dont have to:

A. Wake up at the crack of dawn to watch a race :(

B. Have to fight with the wife over watching F1 instead of the prime time movie on satellite :D

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

In addition, Nick Fry was quoted in F1 Racing as saying this is just the start. In a couple of years we could be seeing two races during a weekend, and reverse grids, all because F1 is entertainment and must put on a good show.

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Well, since when is Fry giving directions about the future of F1? I'd be surprised to see him much longer in F1 to be honest. He's just a demoted team manager who is giving his own opinion. Is it of interest? Yes. Is it time to panic? No.

I can't see much wrong with night racing. As to the other suggestions, I'd say wake me up when there is actual talk about them. I reckon the "powers that be" will be concerned with messing with a formula that has served so well in the past 60 years.

Also, F1 being a TV show is nothing new. F1 has been broadcast on TV since '80s.

Nothing new here.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

It seems from this report it's rather more than just those involved in the marketing side that benefit:

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and from the itv website:

"The research also suggests that the Singapore government will see big benefits from its support of the city's inaugural race this weekend, having contributed around 60% of the estimated $100 cost of hosting the event."

who do i apply to to host one of these here f1 events as $100 sounds extremely reasonable.

Two races per weekend? Reverse grids?
If Nick Fry has said that this scenario is going to take place, then I wonder what is the basis or evidence of his opinion. Has he got some kind of information that it's really going to happen? Because I still find it a bit difficult to believe they (FIA) are going to ruin the classical structure of a Grand Prix. Will they really turn F1 into a GP2? (feature race + sprint race with reverse grids??). :confused:

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

...Having races at a convenient time zone for Euopean TV viewers...

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:dozey:

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

...I dont have to:

A. Wake up at the crack of dawn to watch a race :( ...

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:dozey:

It's nice for us Europeans to watch all the races at lunchtime, don't get me wrong. But half the fun of, say, the Australian GP is getting up at stupid o'clock in the morning - or staying up rediculously late on Saturday night. It's a tradition, and makes us appreciate all the more that the race is happening in a different timezone.

By only catering to a European / Middle-Eastern market F1 risks alienating the new investors it's trying to attract in Asia and the Americas.

Not at all Dave, it isn't nice at all, I rather have them all at 6 AM and than have a free day to go hiking, skiing, cycling and so on.
But I guess I'm not one of those who spends his Sundays at home in front of the TV set. :\

If what I saw today during the 2 FP sessions is the future of F1 than I can say that I'll have to find to watch some real racing in the future. I don't watch F1 for the flood lights, nor for the advertising, not even for the pit babes that they keep showing us more and more.

I'm one of them, who don't like to have F1 Grand Prix's in middays. For better planning of a day it would be more practical if F1 races took place in the morning or in the evening, giving more and flexible opportunities for activities during the rest of the day.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Not at all Dave, it isn't nice at all, I rather have them all at 6 AM and than have a free day to go hiking, skiing, cycling and so on.
But I guess I'm not one of those who spends his Sundays at home in front of the TV set. :\

If what I saw today during the 2 FP sessions is the future of F1 than I can say that I'll have to find to watch some real racing in the future. I don't watch F1 for the flood lights, nor for the advertising, not even for the pit babes that they keep showing us more and more.

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Sadly, this is the way of the modern world - people having the attention span of a goldfish. While I disagree with the dumbing down of F1 - Who is going to tell Bernie? I see he has said he's interested in having Japan as a night race. Please no........

Bernie is the reason why I never had and never will pay for anything related to F1.
Everything he does is for money, nothing to do with what fans really want.

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Originally Posted by ioan

I think that turning one of the best ever racing sports into a business is good for those involved in it's marketing side and bad for those who loved F1, like the older fans.

I certainly prefer them running on sweeping bends through the woods than watching them brake and turn 90 degrees left and right in the middle of a city.

Never been a street racing fan!

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it truly is bizarro world, but yet again I completely agree with your statement.
1 or 2 street races is fine in the calender, but bring back the original hockenhiem, leave spa alone, leave suzuka alone, and give me fast sweeping tracks with good overtaking, rather than tilke gimmicky tracks. The only one he sorta got right was china. Even that one seems less in tune with the environment than simply a track dropped into a clearing.

BBC teletext "Ecclestone Stalls India GP Debut" put back by a year to 2011 then asked if more floodlit races were planned, Ecclestone told Five Live "If we have more races in this part of the world, yes. We're going to try to get Japan to do it. I hope when people see Singapore they realise it wasn't a stupid idea."

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Originally Posted by aryan

Well, since when is Fry giving directions about the future of F1?

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Actually I have troubles finding a reason for why Honda kept him for so many years, when he never managed to produce anything else but bringing them from 2nd place to almost last in the championship.

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Originally Posted by Sarah

BBC teletext "Ecclestone Stalls India GP Debut" put back by a year to 2011 then asked if more floodlit races were planned, Ecclestone told Five Live "If we have more races in this part of the world, yes. We're going to try to get Japan to do it. I hope when people see Singapore they realise it wasn't a stupid idea."

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He really thinks we are all idiots.
We saw it today you money hungry dwarf, and it looks bad for all those who didn't grow up playing on PS. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by aryan

Also, F1 being a TV show is nothing new. F1 has been broadcast on TV since '80s.

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I think there's a difference. Once TV showed what F1 racing was all about. Now TV dictates what F1 should be.

I'm sure a lot of Bernie's sentiments include a touch of "hey, it worked for NASCAR".

I don't have a problem with night races (in moderation). But I don't like the way they're going about doing it.

The races that always get the best TV ratings in Europe are in North and South America because they're on in the evening when most people are watching TV. Night races would make more sense in Europe than Asia and Australia.

Plus, then they would be on in my afternoon instead of my morning.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

I think there's a difference. Once TV showed what F1 racing was all about. Now TV dictates what F1 should be.

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Well put :mark:

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Originally Posted by ioan

I certainly prefer them running on sweeping bends through the woods than watching them brake and turn 90 degrees left and right in the middle of a city.

Never been a street racing fan!

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Absolutely agree. There was a time when F1 circuits were decided based on how challenging they would be for the driver - eg Monaco, Clermont Ferrand, Pescara... and now it's based on how quickly F1 can make a buck. And the people wanting F1 to be the pinnacle in terms of the toughest circuits are left short-changed.

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Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

Absolutely agree. There was a time when F1 circuits were decided based on how challenging they would be for the driver - eg Monaco, Clermont Ferrand, Pescara... and now it's based on how quickly F1 can make a buck. And the people wanting F1 to be the pinnacle in terms of the toughest circuits are left short-changed.

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http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=44080

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Lewis Hamilton

"Through certain corners there was lots of bottoming, and when you hit a bump it would throw the car around quite a bit - but it's an amazing venue," he said.

"On first impressions, there seems to be quite a lot of grip on the track, so you can brake quite late into the slower corners."

"It's a very physical circuit - more than I expected, actually.

"You need to put a lot of work into the car to get a good lap - I'd say it requires double the energy of Monaco over a single lap.

"One lap around here is like two laps of Monaco!"

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DC

"It's very unforgiving, I think there will be a lot of incidents during the race," he said.

"Unlike Valencia, which was a smooth circuit with very good kerbs, the kerbs here are very aggressive, especially at Turn 10.

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