I can't help but think that the Italian GP was there for Kovy to win.
Massa would've won, Lewis would've won, I even think Kimi would've won from that position!
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I can't help but think that the Italian GP was there for Kovy to win.
Massa would've won, Lewis would've won, I even think Kimi would've won from that position!
i mentioned this in a Donkey of the Race post
HK's expression on the podium suggests he knows it too!Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
Just makes me wonder how 'over-rated' he is. Supposedly a solid driver, a good #2 in Kovy's position would've won the race.
I think he should have won but that takes nothing away from Vettel.
Perhaps the McLaren isn't as good as we think ;)
You would expect a McLaren to beat a Toro Rosso, wouldn't you? So, yes, Heikki should've won. But he didn't and we had a new winner.
Well, I'm inclined to agree with you. That said, I think its fair to say Vettel had pace, I'd like to think that even Lewis without his extra stop would have struggled to have beaten Vettel.Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
Lewis, although amazingly quick at some points in the race, used up his tyres much too soon, so his amazingly quick pace wasn't sustainable, so as to whether he would have won is questionable, as I think Vettel may well have had more pace if he needed.
Great for Vettel, he's in a bad car and getting the maximum out of it.
Different story for Kovy, good car but struggling to get the maximum out of the car in the races.
He's usually fighting with Kubica - slightly inferior car and getting the maximum out of it.
At this stage of the season he should be getting closer to Massa.
agree with everyone's comments. I've tried hard all year to give HK the benefit of the doubt, but as I said in another thread, he seems to be no more than a solid#2. Quick in a fast car, but not capable of maximizing the capability of being in a McLaren. I can think of at least 4 drivers that would have gotten more out of that car right now.
He's not even that.Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
So far a #2 at best.
A solid #2 will feature on the podium regularly which is what Barrichello and DC have done.
Makes you think that there was a lot more to Kovalianen being released by Renault than the hogwash of an argument that said he'd be too quick for Fernando to have as a team-mate.
Other than winning the Race of Champions (Wow, big deal!), Kovalianen has been spectacularly average given the equipment he has had.
I don't quite see how Kovalainen should have won purely because he was in a McLaren :mark:
As someone has already pointed out, his podium and interview expression was that of a guy who expects to be fired later in the day. It was a really sorrowful look.
I don't think we should be that hard on Kovalainen and I certainly wouldn't call him the donkey of the race. He was after all second and beat 18 other guys. He may have driven a top car, but second place is not an awful result in such conditions. IMO a lot better than P5 in a top car in dry conditions (a result we have witnessed a lot during years). Strategical choices and proper setup are actually even more important aspects in achieving a strong result than just pure driving and unlike Hamilton Heikki got these right. For this he doesn't get acknowledgement. Hamilton may have won from Heikki's position, but I'm not sure about Massa and Räikkönen to be honest.
I think the most important difference between Hamilton and Kovalainen may be the approach to races, or at least this was what I thought after Grand Prix. While following Vettel, instead of hamiltonesque approach "I'm going to catch him at every cost!" Heikki as a more cautious guy may have thought something like "How to bring this car safely home in such difficult conditions" instead. And hence no tiny attack on Vettel, but keeping his safe P2.
I guess we should'nt be to suprised that Kovi could not beat a Newey designed car with a Ferrari engine in it. However its a shame Vettel isnt in a Macca next year because he has better race pace than most of the drivers on the grid.
I do feel kind of sorry for Kovi he seems like a nice guy but is ending up like the kind of teammate Fisi was to Alonso at Renault :-(
good points and he has shown some aggression in a couple of races, but overall his performances have been wanting in comparison to the other top 3 guys out there ( although kimi hasn't been on form these past couple of weeks. But he's the current WDC and has a lengthy resume of phenominal racing, even in a weaker McLaren in years past)Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
He just hasn't displayed the gumption to fight for wins and or haul in more points for the team. I
Kovalainen winning a F1 race? Maybe if he's running 2nd and the race leader drops out just before the end of it, like in Hungary.
Getting the maximum out of it for sure, but bad car? They were in a racelong duel with the BMWs at a dry Spa Francorchamps. In no way does that suggest a bad car.Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
yupQuote:
Originally Posted by ioan
I have seen this happen behind the SC earlier..he just cannot keep up with the car in front at the start..here with a start under SC, even a rookie like Vettel got away pretty easily..
If it was Lewis in P2 he would have been in P1 after the first chicane or at the most the end of the lap.
Though I have not rated Heikki as I have found him to be dissapointing, I do think its important to point out that whilst DC and RB were solid "number 2s" in that they were regularly on the podium.
Its also important to note that in this current era of F1, the top 14 cars are split by 1s. So competition is much much tighter than ever before.
I have to say that I’m disappointed with Heikki.
I really hoped he would be able to push Lewis but it seems Lewis is more than capable of pushing himself.
It’s always difficult when you have someone come in that you know can be quick but is trounced by his team mate. You question the 2nd driver without considering the 1st.
Possibly it’s a combination of a few things. HK is more conservative and happy to bring a car home in second whereas Lewis is more aggressive and daring. It may also be skill level with Lewis just being a quicker?
Whatever it is, HK isn’t delivering as expected.
I have to say that I’m disappointed with Heikki.
I really hoped he would be able to push Lewis but it seems Lewis is more than capable of pushing himself.
It’s always difficult when you have someone come in that you know can be quick but is trounced by his team mate. You question the 2nd driver without considering the 1st.
Possibly it’s a combination of a few things. HK is more conservative and happy to bring a car home in second whereas Lewis is more aggressive and daring. It may also be skill level with Lewis just being a quicker?
Whatever it is, HK isn’t delivering as expected.
Sorry, Hiccups :D
Heikki just doesn't have that cutting edge/killer instinct that Lewis and the other top drivers do. People said at the start of the season he could run his team-mate close but I've yet to really see any sign of that in a race.
Taking nothing away from Vettel, but that was surely Heikki's race against a guy of such inexperience in a slower car. I think I'm right in saying Kova has been shoddy off the line all season and I'm sure this played a big part in him losing.
Maybe we are being a a bit harsh on Kovalainen. At least he managed to qualify in a decent position in challenging conditions at Monza, when the 3 title contenders were nowhere.
I agree that he was the only one that delivered in qualifying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow
It's just that I believe that in those conditions, the Ferrari and McLaren were superior to the STR so why the hell did he start and finish in 2nd?
BUT, he did do the bizzo and brought back 8 valuable points.
LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
that's what he probably told the folks during their debrief. And they were probably like " thanks, good job Kovi" with no exuberance. How come his teammate manages to close up to 1 second behind Vettel from p15 and he can't even challenge the guy starting from p2.
Yeah for the first 2 laps he may have been hindered by the spary. but after things settled a bit and Sv was like 5-6 seconds ahead, Kovi should have made his move and started reeling him in. Instead we got nothing all race from him.
And if Ferrari had given me a drive, I might have won too!!Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
I'm inclined to think that MacLeran had Their drivers on 2 completely different set-ups (Kovy on the low downforce if it stayed dry, and Hams on the high downforce because it was suppose to rain...) I think Heikki's problem was he had to keep a distance because of the spray, and once the was some good visibility, his Mac cooked the rears and he was already pretty far behind...
Did anyone consider that, maybe, Vettel was simply faster and drove better than the rest of them?
The kitty is astonished by your outside-the-box thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
http://arnoldthemethodical.files.wor...astonished.jpg
Kovy didn't deliver. Let's move on folks, nothing to see here!
I find it a bit hard to criticize the driver who finished 2nd! It's not like he was stuck down in 17th - 20th! Give the guy a break!
No reason to criticise Kovi - he drove exceedingly well under difficult circumstances. However, to say he shoulda won is just plain nonsense - he was beaten in all respects by a better drive by Vettel in a Torro Rosso, no less.
Let's put this into perspective and stop the Shooda, cooda wooda jive.
Could be that the Toro Rosso was simply the vest car for the conditions. They qualified the best (1st and 4th) out of anyone as well.
Nah, it couldn't be that simple - we must spend pages of posts analyzing the race to find the real reason Vettel won. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by theugsquirrel
I've had enough of your well reasoned and unbiased posting. If you keep on like this I'm going to report you!!!! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by theugsquirrel
:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
I think you should take into account Hamiltons blistering pace wasn't sustainable. He pushed it heavy on stint after, only to find he'd used his tyres and ended up being 1s + slower than Vettel.Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
Quote:
Originally Posted by PolePosition_1
That being said, the car was still more than a mtach for the STR ( I' can;t beleive I saying this..) and if Hamilton could find a way with a heavier fule load and a longer stint on ttyres to get up there then surely Kovy could have found a way past Vettel with a McLaren. I am pretty sure that if Hamilton was sitting Second he would have passed Vettel or at the veryworst given him a stiff challenge for the win.