2008 - first year back together

OK, the season is more or less over. This was a first year after the long war and lets give some pros and cons of the new IndyCar series.

Things I liked:
- professionalism in the paddock/races/TV - ChampCar was really lacking it in last years
- sponsored cars - nice to see real sponsors on cars
- competitive races

Things I did not like:
- no TV coverage (Estonia, Europe) - I had to watch internet feed, which was not running very well
- the cars - how can they be so ugly?
- CC teams uncompetitive on ovals

2009:
- better schedule
- international TV deal?
- Dario back (Can I forgive him that he jumped the ship: CC->IRL?)
- CC teams more competitive on ovals

All in all I am very positive, although I used to be true CC supporter, this was the first year for ages, where Open Wheel racing in US started to move in the right direction.

Keep going!

things i liked
dario is back
and that about does it ha ha poor year i think

things i didnt like
watching the full season, i sholud have just watch Chicagoland
nothing was hype up, if not for wind tunnel i wolud have, never knowing about the re-join of the series,
and last i miss champcar :(

2009 schedule?
hmm they needed more ovals
thats about it i think

2008 was a good start
2009 is better although they need to honour a lot of contracts with current IRL venues.
2010 should be a ripper with a new schedule and new cars (I think, unless its 2011 for the new cars??)

Yep all in all 2008 was a positive year, hope it can be built on for the future!

The main thing lacking IMO to get back to 1995 levels of interest (for me personally I mean) would be multiple chassis and engine manufacturers, preferably tyres too although I can just about live without that. I miss the days of the Reynard/Lola/Penske/Swift, Goodyear/Firestone and Honda/Toyota/Mercedes/Ford wars in CART - it always seemed to generate a diverse list of race winners every year without the need to resort to artifical measures to "mix up the field" that we see now in just about every series outside of F1, IndyCar and sportscars.

As for the mix of road/street/ovals, to be honest I think they have it pretty much bang on. I'd prefer a couple more 2+ mile superspeedways in place of some of the identikit 1.5 mile ovals, but I think keeping a healthy mix (rather than drifting heavily in the road/street or oval direction) is essential.

One thing I DON'T want to see, that has been mooted a couple of times, is some sort of F1-style entry cap and getting into a "franchise" mentality where entry slots can be bought and sold. Leave it open to all comers who can get their hands on legal equipment, and have race-by-race qualifying if necessary where spaces are limited, which will naturally sort the wheat from the chaff anyway.

As a UK-based fan, I hope that the TV changes won't impact us too much here, and I believe they won't. I'm not sure how many would actually agree with me, but I enjoy Sky's coverage (way better than the unprofessional scheduling that Eurosport used to serve up back in CART/IndyCar's mid-90's heyday).

I also hope that when (if) the Australian round becomes part of the official schedule, it will be shown live here (the "exhibition" race in a couple months is only being shown as highlights on Sky). I know it will be on in the middle of the night but I'll make a night of it, if it's on, and hope it won't be moved to some silly hour. F1 has made a big mistake IMO in moving the Australian GP forward, effectively meaning the European audiences they are attempting to cater for have to get up early on a Sunday morning (!) rather than stop up late on a Saturday.

Other than that no complaints, and I feel 2009 will automatically be improved by the fact that all the ex Champ Car teams will be more up to speed, and we can see the likes of Servia and Wilson contending for wins most weekends rather than just on the road courses.

Pros:

- Full fields of cars
- AOWR becoming a bit more respectable again. (i.e. Drivers like Dario deciding its worth coming back to)
- New TV Deal with increased exposure.
- Having to qualify for the 500 again.
- IRL being open to new ideas (standing starts, turbos, new chassis/engines, etc)
- Transition teams were more competitive by the end of the year
- More diverse schedule

Cons:

- Crappy road races. We need more Road Americas and Clevelands, not Belle Isles and Sonomas.
- Some of the oval formulas need some work. i.e. Iowa, Richmond, Kansas, Homestead
- Not enough pack racing. Chicagoland, Milwaukee, and Texas were really the only places with side-by-side racing.
- Ganassi/Penske domination like always.


Overall it's getting better. In a couple years AOWR should be at a very exciting point.

Bring back Fontana please. Attending one race a year (Long Beach) is not enough for me!

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Originally Posted by -Helix-

Pros:


- Having to qualify for the 500 again.
Ain't that the truth..

Cons:

- Crappy road races. We need more Road Americas and Clevelands, not Belle Isles and Sonomas.
Sonoma is probably the worst track in the world, looks like its some dusty run-down ex-testing facility

- Ganassi/Penske domination like always.
Great teams, special drivers. Wont be as dominant though once other teams especially NHL and KV get some solid data and their act together.

Overall it's getting better. In a couple years AOWR should be at a very exciting point.

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Couldnt agree more - best thing to happen since canned piss

Quote:

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Originally Posted by V12

Yep all in all 2008 was a positive year, hope it can be built on for the future!


As for the mix of road/street/ovals, to be honest I think they have it pretty much bang on. I'd prefer a couple more 2+ mile superspeedways in place of some of the identikit 1.5 mile ovals, but I think keeping a healthy mix (rather than drifting heavily in the road/street or oval direction) is essential.

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Michigan and Fontana need to be on the schedule just like Road America and Cleveland. These are 4 of the best tracks for open wheel racing in this country, with some of the best races ever in Indycars/Champcar history, and none of the 4 are on the schedule.

Dump Iowa, Homestead and Kansas and add in these 4, then find a chassis not so painful to look at to put on them and I'd be 100% better than I was this year. As much as I tried to stay interested, I was hard to watch most of the year. That just wasn't my guys out there..............

It looks like the first was more of the second year. There are tons of good things came up when these two series finally reunited. Sure, there are bad stuff and negative things lurking around this one unified series but quite honestly, this is just the first year. As the series' move on as one series, this just gets better. Just waiting for that series sponsor and more manufacturer to climb on board and IndyCar will be again just like it was.

Not to be out of the topic but there's one main thing lacking this time of the year during the CC years when I was a fan. That is: CC management lies. They put hopes on the fans yet couldn't deliver when it's due. This year.............................................. NONE OF THAT AT ALL.

Pro..... Cars on track, overall i enjoyed the racing, certainly a vast improvement of what the 2 halfs gave us the past 1/2 decade

Cons....the Biz....it seems as if it's Biz as usual...and that's too bad

I disagree with a couple, but domaza has it pretty well down for me in starting the thread.

I think the number 1 great thing about this season is that the last 2 guys standing for the IRL Championship at the last race of the season, are both committed IRL guys. No rumors of NASCAR or Formula 1 or NHRA or A1GP or WRC or go-kart racing, anywhere to be found.

For the first time in 3 years, the IRL Champion and the Indy 500 Champion will be back to defend his titles.

The exodus from American Open-Wheel is over. The trend is reversing. Franchitti is back. Brent Sherman jumped over from Nationwide. Rumors are now starting to appear about NASCAR, Nationwide and ARCA drivers coming to openwheel.

Another great thing about the season is how quickly the ex-CCWS teams adapted, persisted, laughed, cried, and fought their way into contention in the series. To be especially congratulated is KV Racing with Servia finishing in the top 10 point standings and a win for Will Power at Long Beach. Honorable mention goes to Newman Haas Lanigan for their epic wins at St. Pete and Detroit. HVM Racing also showed great signs of competitive prowess with E.J. Viso running well all season and then having the resources to go to a 4 car team in 2009. (2 IRL, 2 FIL) .

Hideki Mutoh managed to win a Rookie of the Year Title that actually meant something and not the farce the IRL has had the past few seasons for this particular award. Justin Wilson just narrowly missed capturing the title this year.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChicagocrewIRL

For the first time in 3 years, the IRL Champion and the Indy 500 Champion will be back to defend his titles.

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Hornish came back in 07 to defend his title in 06.

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Originally Posted by ChicagocrewIRL

Another great thing about the season is how quickly the ex-CCWS teams adapted, persisted, laughed, cried, and fought their way into contention in the series. To be especially congratulated is KV Racing with Servia finishing in the top 10 point standings and a win for Will Power at Long Beach. Honorable mention goes to Newman Haas Lanigan for their epic wins at St. Pete and Detroit. HVM Racing also showed great signs of competitive prowess with E.J. Viso running well all season and then having the resources to go to a 4 car team in 2009. (2 IRL, 2 FIL) .

Hideki Mutoh managed to win a Rookie of the Year Title that actually meant something and not the farce the IRL has had the past few seasons for this particular award. Justin Wilson just narrowly missed capturing the title this year.

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I would agree it is fitting Mutoh won it, simply because he was a true rookie in the sense of never having big-league experience whereas Wilson, Power and others got slapped with the rookie tag even though they had prior years in Champ Car. Just b/c of their lack of oval experience. Would have been nice if TV mentioned it on Sunday but they were too fixated on the wives...

All told it was an especially trying year for the ex-CC teams. Hopefully with an actual off-season to tweak setups and improve their cars, they won't be as far behind next year. I fear for N/H/L though b/c of Newman's health and the corresponding sponsorship that goes with it.

I have enjoyed 2008 Immensly

Ive enjoyed
The mix of Road and Street Races
Championship comming down to the wire - would of been cruel for Wilson if he lost it but kudos to Helio and Penske for making it close
Indy 500 Qualifying format
The end of Diancamania (Sorry but I cant stand her) and more commentating on the performing drivers of the season.
The few races where there was side by side racing - wish there was more
Ryan Briscoe's season (and not having to worry about where he will end up whilest reading motosport silly season threads :p :)


What I dont like.....
Uncertainty of Surfers Paradise beyond 2008
Posiblitiy of loosing TV Coverage In Oz
Clouded future off Team Australia
Street Circuits too narrow - wheres the passing opportunities
Finding some teams thrive on Road or Street Races and not on the other - would like it more even

A decent TV package for Canada. If ABC were showing the race fine although the commercials got a bit much.
If it was ESPN (of any type) in the US it was TSN up here, sometimes TSN2, now gone, and at any hour, often midnight or later. I missed several races because of that and when I was at a motel they (different ones) if it was TSN 2 they didn't have the channel on cable. I eventually gave up and quit following the series.
TSN didn't have side by side so even more was missed due to commercials.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cart750hp

It looks like the first was more of the second year. There are tons of good things came up when these two series finally reunited. Sure, there are bad stuff and negative things lurking around this one unified series but quite honestly, this is just the first year. As the series' move on as one series, this just gets better. Just waiting for that series sponsor and more manufacturer to climb on board and IndyCar will be again just like it was.

Not to be out of the topic but there's one main thing lacking this time of the year during the CC years when I was a fan. That is: CC management lies. They put hopes on the fans yet couldn't deliver when it's due. This year.............................................. NONE OF THAT AT ALL.

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Well stated and I agree and add that we still don't know about Surfer's so the the water is still not totally clear.

Pro: Paul Tracy finishing 4th at Edmonton.

Con: Paul Tracy only raced at Edmonton.

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Originally Posted by nigelred5

Michigan and Fontana need to be on the schedule just like Road America and Cleveland. These are 4 of the best tracks for open wheel racing in this country, with some of the best races ever in Indycars/Champcar history, and none of the 4 are on the schedule.

Dump Iowa, Homestead and Kansas and add in these 4, then find a chassis not so painful to look at to put on them and I'd be 100% better than I was this year. As much as I tried to stay interested, I was hard to watch most of the year. That just wasn't my guys out there..............

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Damn skippy, nigelred5. Couldn't have put it better. Bring back the REAL ovals, not the cookie cutter BS, not ovals less than a mile long (a bit ridiculous for top level open wheel racers), and bring back the classic roadcourses, all of what you stated above. That will get the fans excited and and looking for better things to come.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nigelred5

Michigan and Fontana need to be on the schedule just like Road America and Cleveland. These are 4 of the best tracks for open wheel racing in this country, with some of the best races ever in Indycars/Champcar history, and none of the 4 are on the schedule.

Dump Iowa, Homestead and Kansas and add in these 4, then find a chassis not so painful to look at to put on them and I'd be 100% better than I was this year. As much as I tried to stay interested, I was hard to watch most of the year. That just wasn't my guys out there..............

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Damn skippy, nigelred5. Couldn't have put it better. Bring back the REAL ovals, not the cookie cutter BS, not ovals less than a mile long (a bit ridiculous for top level open wheel racers), and bring back the classic roadcourses, all of what you stated above. That will get the fans excited and looking for even better things to come.

Well, Chap and NigelRed, those are all fine race tracks but the sanctioning body and the promoter at those venues must strike a bargain for a race to happen at them, i.e., MONEY. And if it doesn't make financial sense for either or both the promoter and sanctioning body, they aren't gonna happen, IMO.

I have a question maybe some of the guys with more inside knowledge of the industry can answer:

How much have costs gone up for a race track to put on a race? If they have, why?

I am going to guess it is significantly more expensive to put on a race at a place like Michigan than it was 25 years ago - not just due to cost of living/inflation but because spectators expect better services, higher insurance etc...

The reason I ask is I am thinking this might be why tracks like Fontana etc. are likely to stay away....

Chris, tracks are a fair-sized business today, at least superspeedways are. They have budgets -- maintenance, property taxes, year-round employees, etc. And they have sources of income from races and track rentals for tests and concessions and sponsorships and the like.

To have a race, a promoter must think about his expenses in putting on the show, how many people he thinks he can draw, how much he can charge for ticket prices, what sponsorship dollars might be available and weigh that against his own expenses, which include the cost of the show.

The sanctioning body must think about paying competitors, paying its staff, paying its office rent, travel, equipment, series sponsorship money available, TV money available and crunch all of those and other numbers.

Both entities, if they're professionals, know about what they can do to make out okay. Now, they may bullbleep each other or may make statements to the media to gather sympathy during negotiations but they'll strike a bargain.

The ones that don't, well, just don't.

I think you have to consider why open wheel stopped going there in the first place. Pre open wheel war, those tracks were doing just fine. Now that was are combined again, it's not unfeasable to take another look at those tracks and see what can be done to get OWR back to those venues. Even during the war, Road America was able to make it work (albeit sometimes, just barely), and Cleveland was always pretty good. Obviously, Fontana and Michigan would be bigger challenges. Maybe if TG could swallow a little pride and have an Indy Car race there during a Sprint Cup weekend to reintroduce the sport to the audience out there (Yeah, I know, IC, but hey, gotta think outside the box, here). I would also include Laguna Seca in this deal. I'm sure you've heard many people here talk about AOWR going back to the classic venues, we just gotta find the right combination of things to make it viable.

Good post, Chap, but I think some of that work has already been approached.

Cleveland/Houston -- The IRL met with Lanigan on these and they couldn't strike a bargain. Maybe it wasn't because of anything other than both events have been money losers.

Toronto -- AGR took it over, got Honda of Canada to support it and it makes financial sense now, so it's there.

Road America -- CART and CC treated the track so badly that its date wandered all over the calendar, Mario had to mediate a lawsuit to get the race held one year, CC wound up with a track rental, etc. It's probably a good move to wait a couple years and let the stain go away first. In any case, RA and the IRL briefly talked about it.

Laguna Seca -- CART took away Laguna's date, put it in June, attendance fizzled, put it back in September, the sizzle was gone, Laguna owed CART money, CC ditched it for San Jose, then CC ditched San Jose. Like Road America, it'd be rough going for awhile there. And the IRL has just signed another three-year deal with Infineon.

Fontana and Michigan -- Fontana, with its second NASCAR date, now has a scheduling problem because either spring or fall, it's too close to NASCAR for it, but I understand they actually want to work something out. Not the same with the GM at Michigan, who may have been trying to be a BMOC with ISC in Daytona, which may have been told it wouldn't work. That's probably why the IRL accepted Penske's proposal to go to Detroit. Don't think it's a matter of TG "swallowing pride" and running with Cup. No openings -- ARCA and the Nationwide Series run with Cup.

Time will tell as the schedule evolves over the next few years.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by indycool

Good post, Chap, but I think some of that work has already been approached.

Cleveland/Houston -- The IRL met with Lanigan on these and they couldn't strike a bargain. Maybe it wasn't because of anything other than both events have been money losers.

Toronto -- AGR took it over, got Honda of Canada to support it and it makes financial sense now, so it's there.

Road America -- CART and CC treated the track so badly that its date wandered all over the calendar, Mario had to mediate a lawsuit to get the race held one year, CC wound up with a track rental, etc. It's probably a good move to wait a couple years and let the stain go away first. In any case, RA and the IRL briefly talked about it.

Laguna Seca -- CART took away Laguna's date, put it in June, attendance fizzled, put it back in September, the sizzle was gone, Laguna owed CART money, CC ditched it for San Jose, then CC ditched San Jose. Like Road America, it'd be rough going for awhile there. And the IRL has just signed another three-year deal with Infineon.

Fontana and Michigan -- Fontana, with its second NASCAR date, now has a scheduling problem because either spring or fall, it's too close to NASCAR for it, but I understand they actually want to work something out. Not the same with the GM at Michigan, who may have been trying to be a BMOC with ISC in Daytona, which may have been told it wouldn't work. That's probably why the IRL accepted Penske's proposal to go to Detroit. Don't think it's a matter of TG "swallowing pride" and running with Cup. No openings -- ARCA and the Nationwide Series run with Cup.

Time will tell as the schedule evolves over the next few years.

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Honesty is always the best policy

all of the venues listed above (sans houston)....are casualties of the split....poor performance from CART as well as the IRL has soured them

Quote:

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Originally Posted by indycool

Fontana, with its second NASCAR date, now has a scheduling problem because either spring or fall, it's too close to NASCAR for it, but I understand they actually want to work something out.

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Fontana doesn't need 2 NASCAR dates. Attendence is falling for both. I have been giving my tickets away for one of the races for a few years now. And there are alot of empty seats around me in the Speedway Club section.

But I'd prefer to keep the Labor Day NASCAR race, and Long Beach means spring is already covered. So scheduling an ICS race might be difficult.

That said, I bet the Fontana race at the beginning of the season gets better attendance, since the loast race is right before the chase and people lose interest when their driver is sure to be out. (I hate the chase BTW.)

Hey, Rex, we agree on one! :) :) :) :)

Sorry, double post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rex Monaco

Fontana doesn't need 2 NASCAR dates. Attendence is falling for both. I have been giving my tickets away for one of the races for a few years now. And there are alot of empty seats around me in the Speedway Club section.

But I'd prefer to keep the Labor Day NASCAR race, and Long Beach means spring is already covered. So scheduling an ICS race might be difficult.

That said, I bet the Fontana race at the beginning of the season gets better attendance, since the loast race is right before the chase and people lose interest when their driver is sure to be out. (I hate the chase BTW.)

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would an IRL date trump a second Cup date?

not by a long shot ....or 30k+

and 21/2 to 3 ratings points

From a promoter's point of view, NASCAR at Fontana twice a year is obviously better than NASCAR once and IndyCar once. But from NASCAR's point of view, Fontana might be better as one race a year and find another track for that 2nd date. In which case, it could open up to the IRL. Some of the NASCAR repeat races are really lame.

Fontana has got to be added on IRL's schedule. Pretty much most of the fans agree to this venue. Michigan could be a great add on....but time will tell.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by indycool

Good post, Chap, but I think some of that work has already been approached.

Cleveland/Houston -- The IRL met with Lanigan on these and they couldn't strike a bargain. Maybe it wasn't because of anything other than both events have been money losers.

Toronto -- AGR took it over, got Honda of Canada to support it and it makes financial sense now, so it's there.

Road America -- CART and CC treated the track so badly that its date wandered all over the calendar, Mario had to mediate a lawsuit to get the race held one year, CC wound up with a track rental, etc. It's probably a good move to wait a couple years and let the stain go away first. In any case, RA and the IRL briefly talked about it.

Laguna Seca -- CART took away Laguna's date, put it in June, attendance fizzled, put it back in September, the sizzle was gone, Laguna owed CART money, CC ditched it for San Jose, then CC ditched San Jose. Like Road America, it'd be rough going for awhile there. And the IRL has just signed another three-year deal with Infineon.

Fontana and Michigan -- Fontana, with its second NASCAR date, now has a scheduling problem because either spring or fall, it's too close to NASCAR for it, but I understand they actually want to work something out. Not the same with the GM at Michigan, who may have been trying to be a BMOC with ISC in Daytona, which may have been told it wouldn't work. That's probably why the IRL accepted Penske's proposal to go to Detroit. Don't think it's a matter of TG "swallowing pride" and running with Cup. No openings -- ARCA and the Nationwide Series run with Cup.

Time will tell as the schedule evolves over the next few years.

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OK, good points, IC. We all knew it would take time for the still scaring wounds of the "unpleasantness" would take time to heal, since both sides used bad judgement in some things.

That said, it is important for AOWR to regain some footing, we have to embrace our history again, which is a big reason why I would want to go back to the classic venues. Perhaps if something could be worked out in time for when the new car gets here, which would be raced on all courses, that might be an avenue to get it done, by promoting a return to the classic racetracks with an all new and exciting car. I agree that a combined date with Sprint Cup is highly unlikely, but a weekend at the road & street courses
with ALMS or Grand AM (or both; how about that?) might work.
Easier said than done, of course, but hopefully ICS will keep them in mind.

The bits of the championship I was able to see on Channel Five a couple of weeks after the race were fairly good, nice to see a full grid. Hopefully this season will serve as a platform for the championship to get up from. One thing I would like, better coverage in the UK, please? Okay, that's just a pipe dream.

I think that they really have to work on getting turbocharged engines. The road/street courses have horrible speed and that is just no good for racing.

Ok..since I have been not watching all the races....I have followed the series in the press mainly.

PRO: Good fields ( like I was saying all along there wasn't enough teams and money for 2 series to have full fields).
Great racing really.
Seeing the CCWS guys compete and as time went on, win.
Seeing the rancor and politics fade off into the sunset.
Seeing racing be the focus.
Seeing the races on my TV more regular (still not enough but better than the last year of CCWS) and most of all, seeing Carl Haas and the late Paul Newman return to Indy with HONOUR.

The Cons?
I am not a huge fan of the car's look although it races much better than it used to.
Still not a cookie cutter oval fan but I will have to watch more of it to maybe see what I am supposed to be missing.
No race in OZ after this year?
No ride for PT past Edmonton.
No race in Cleveland or Road America ( although I understand why) and no race in Toronto THIS last season.....thank god Mikey Andretti wanted to keep his favourite playground back in racing.

IN short....this season was a surprise merger (I figured any merger would be a lot more formal and "equal" but then again, the Amigo's destroyed any crediablity they had) at the last moment and for all of that....it wasn't a bad season.

I look forward to OW racing growing but it is going to be a lot more slow and fraught with pitfalls than some of you realize. The bad economic news and the fact NASCAR has used the "war" to put a strangle hold on the racing conscience of most of America will be the worst battle conditions to try to regrow OW to where it was in 1994