Does Manning need power steering?

He parked it at Iowa when his arms got tired, much to I'm sure Foyt's chagrin. How much of it is Darren's lack of training vs Foyt's mediocre car (no evidence of the latter, but it's not a top class machine)? I do think Darren needs to spend less time on the golf course if he's parking it, particularly when Danica and the rest of the field were in it till the end. Oddly enough, I think TK is so built he was probably turning the wheel too much causing that spin. Did the same thing last year at Iowa.

The high G loads at Iowa seem particularly hard on steering racks. Rice had one locking up as did Camara. Apparently so did Manning. From the Foyt website, he also had a new seat that placed him too far from the wheel, aggravating the problem. It was reported the TK may have had a suspension failure, as did Carpenter. Bruno and Roth had failures in practice. Wild speculation and finger pointing is interesting, but getting the facts is better.

I know that the short tracks are tougher on steering and suspension, but TK saying suspension "may have" broken is hardly a conclusive fact. He may well have just gotten loose, as I also saw reported, and which TK was even quoted as saying. And Darren also had problems last year with the steering at St. Pete, which Curt Cavin said was a fitness issue that Darren has since worked on. By the way, I did question whether it was possibly the car. Sounds like it was, if that was stated on the Foyt site. So thanks for answering my question.

IMO this is a fine example of how high speed open wheel cars should not run on ovals created for cars with fenders. I did not say "no ovals", just high banked ovals built for heavier and bigger cars. The G load is too great.

Take a look at how a Nascar driver sits in the car, upright, arms flexed, steering is closer to the torso, legs are flexed. Then look at an open wheel car with the arms extended, steering farther away and the driver in a modified prone position with legs extended. Try it for yourself. To simulate at home, sit up straight on your couch, take a round weight in both hands and while the arms are flexed, turn it from side to side. Then repeat the task with arms extended while sitting with legs extended nearly laying down. It takes much more upper body and arm strength in an oval car. Add an ill handling car and the effort would increase. Add higher G load and the effort double or tripples.

There was a TV piece aired in Indy during May showing Darren and his trainer at the fitness center at IMS while he was working with upper body and arm strength. I can't say whether it was staged or if he does this regularly.

Food for thought.

Since most everyone else seemed to be handling Iowa pretty well (Foyt & Andretti both said they love the track), I'd say it was just a matter of the #14 team completely missing the setup. Either that, or Darren went out for a few drinks Saturday night and was getting queasy in the cockpit.

I predict that he'll do better at the upcoming road races.

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Originally Posted by coogmaster

Since most everyone else seemed to be handling Iowa pretty well (Foyt & Andretti both said they love the track), I'd say it was just a matter of the #14 team completely missing the setup. Either that, or Darren went out for a few drinks Saturday night and was getting queasy in the cockpit.

I predict that he'll do better at the upcoming road races.

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Not just the 14. Rice and Camera dropped out from heavy steering, apparently seizing steering racks. Dixon last year had the same problem, and the team changed the rack during the race, losing 77 laps. Obviously some teams did a better job preparing for high steering loads this year than others. So I guess if some think Manning was too weak to continue, the same could be said about Rice, Camera, and Dixon (who is a triathlete). My hats off to all of the drivers. They are all much tougher than most can ever imagine.

Good point there. Anyone who says that racing isn't physically demanding is either ignorant or needs to get their head examined.

And it also goes to show that these cars are not bullet proof quite yet.

There was an interesting sidelight to the controversy about the variable rate steering used last year by Patrick and Manning (and others apparently). Because it reduced the required effort the further the wheel was turned, some teams claimed it was an unfair advantage as it allowed more aggressive setups (like caster) which improved turn in and performance. That implies the opposite, that caster changes can compromise turn in but reduce steering effort. As anyone who has fooled with chassis setup knows, in the words of AJ, that is quite true. There are many things to reduce steering effort, but all have other consequences.

The Bridgestone motorsports site has an interesting article about the steering where Briscoe indicated the locking problem existed at other tracks like Sonoma because of the loading from elevation change. The variable rack eliminated the problem. It would be interesting to know who was and who was not running the new steering at Iowa.

In addition to the "blister check" at the end of the race with IV, some of the in-car shots showed one other interesting condition. Drivers were moving their hands on the wheel, and in the case of Marco, sometimes relaxing their hands on the straightaways. At one point Danica was driving with some of her fingers extended (no, not just the middle one), rather than wrapped around the wheel, an almost sure sign of cramping. It takes a tough person to drive through that. And some so-called sports writers claim race drivers aren't athletes. Right.

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Originally Posted by coogmaster

Good point there. Anyone who says that racing isn't physically demanding is either ignorant or needs to get their head examined.

And it also goes to show that these cars are not bullet proof quite yet.

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100% agree

Knowing AJ I think he might need a drive....

Knowing AJ he should learn to set a car up properly. There is a reason why his team never scores high in races and when they do it is normally down to the driver and being on a road course.

Funny when Darren ran the CART race at Rockingham in 2002 he had never done that many laps in a singal seater around that circuit. He had done plenty in a stock car. He didn't struggle at all. Completely different tracks, team, and car I know. I'm sure he hasn't become so unfit in the last 6 years.

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Originally Posted by dataman1

IMO this is a fine example of how high speed open wheel cars should not run on ovals created for cars with fenders. I did not say "no ovals", just high banked ovals built for heavier and bigger cars. The G load is too great.

Take a look at how a Nascar driver sits in the car, upright, arms flexed, steering is closer to the torso, legs are flexed. Then look at an open wheel car with the arms extended, steering farther away and the driver in a modified prone position with legs extended. Try it for yourself. To simulate at home, sit up straight on your couch, take a round weight in both hands and while the arms are flexed, turn it from side to side. Then repeat the task with arms extended while sitting with legs extended nearly laying down. It takes much more upper body and arm strength in an oval car. Add an ill handling car and the effort would increase. Add higher G load and the effort double or tripples.

There was a TV piece aired in Indy during May showing Darren and his trainer at the fitness center at IMS while he was working with upper body and arm strength. I can't say whether it was staged or if he does this regularly.

Food for thought.

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Except a stock car is a lot heavier, has bigger steering wheel and requires a different driving style. You see a lot drivers driving with there right arm hooked across at 9/8 o clock.

Open wheelers is have very little room in the cockpit and drive the textbook hand positioning of 9:15.

Things ain't looking good in the #14 camp. AJ didn't come to the track and won't turn on his cell phone. During practice 1 Larry Foyt and Manning were having discussions and avoided questioning afterwards.

just heard the IMS radio guys during qualifying discussing this. AJ didn't come to Richmond, he's so ***** from Darren parking the car. Steve King interviewed Larry Foyt and it didn't sound like Darren is in a good place to stay with the team. That said, when AJ cools off, this might not be so drastic. I agree with others saying this most likely is not all Darren's fault, it's the car setup.

When is AJ gonna realise his team is slow and cant set a car up? His grandson had a hell of a time with that team.

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Originally Posted by wedge

Except a stock car is a lot heavier, has bigger steering wheel and requires a different driving style. You see a lot drivers driving with there right arm hooked across at 9/8 o clock.

Open wheelers is have very little room in the cockpit and drive the textbook hand positioning of 9:15.

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No argument at all. The point in this was that the tracks were built for the heavier stock cars with their type of driver seating, etc.. Open wheeled cars began on either slightly banked (Indy) or non-banked short ovals. When MIS was built there were high banks but it also had a flat track in the back, time to rest the arms a little. Today they are racing on tracks that are concrete or asphalt bowls, no time to rest the arms.