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As we all know there supposed to be a new car for the 2010 season. Thats leaves only about year and a half. Shouldnt they be testing the car by now? I mean I dont remember exactly how long it took for the Panoz but I know at least a year if not more, for testing and whatever they do to them to make sure there ready for use.
panoz was launched at san jose (July) 2005 and tested throughout 2006 (from what I remember).
So for a 2010 launch I would hope to hear something around july september this year.
Don't know if anyone else read the interview from Long Beach with Kevin Kal, who said Tony Cotman had a huge hand in the development of the Panoz, and would be keen to push for something along those lines again.
As Panoz was in the IRL previously, I don't doubt they might be back, not with the DPo1whatever it was, but possibly a development on that prinicpal.
The way things have been moving so far this year, I wouldn't be to surprised to hear something soon.
As a side note do the current rules allow for a team to turn up with any chasis provided it is in line with current rules? Or do they all have to be Dallara's?
Only the dallara is legal this year. however the irl panoz chassis is legal for Indy only.Quote:
Originally Posted by MAX_THRUST
Thanks Bob....there is nothing you don't know!!! Doubt anyone will use the Panoz though. Has it ever won Indy???
there are two on the entry list at the moment... http://www.indy500.com/images/pdf/2008_entrylist.pdfQuote:
Originally Posted by MAX_THRUST
Buddy Rice was the last to win the Indy 500 in a Panoz chassis in 04. Although the race ended under yellows for rain he was the class of the field all day. Of course Penske won in a Panoz/G Force in '03, and Montoya in 2000.
Nothing with a driver though.....Quote:
Originally Posted by BobGarage
IMHO the best way to design the next car is to create a set of specifications, wheel base, width, height, cockpit size, wing size, tunnel limits, etc and let the manufactures design and compete. Just like back before the un-unification when we had Lola's and Renard's and Penske's.
We could potentially have chassis from a number of manufactures, Lola, Panoz, Dallara, just to name a few.
Then create an engine spec and let the engine guys do the same thing.
The smart thing might be to delay the car a year...though I dread the thought of looking at the Dallara for another season.
Get at least 2, possibly 3, chassis manufacturers to commit to the series for 2011. See what direction this series is going to go during the next 6-12 months. Obviously Indy will always be a part of it, but what about other large ovals? Decide on an engine formula. Speak with the committed manufacturers, engineers, and drivers to come up with a list of desirable qualities. Then give the manufacturers 18 months to create and test their chassis from a strict formula.
Unless, they've been working on something with a combined series in mind for a long time now, I don't think they could get all this done by 2010. I just don't want to see another spec series until 2013.
I think for the next few years cost will still be a major factor in the specifications of a car. Part of the beauty of the DP01 was, overall, it was cheaper to run (and fix!) than the previous Lola (and I'm pretty sure cheaper than the IRL cars now). If / when the series returns to it's "glory" days (and there's simply more money in the series), then it can be opened up to additional chassis manufacturers, etc. But until then (and I'm afraid it will take some time), they'll need to keep the focus on costs (w/o sacrificing safety or performance, of course).
IMHO, it doesn't have anyhing to do with a combined series, their chassis specs were guaranteed to remain the same until 2010. They have been racing on three different type of tracks for three years now. The only thing that has changed is a lack of competing series to fight for sponsor money with. The IRL teams have known for 2 years that a new chassis was due in 2010. The only difference a combined series brings in my mind is greater opportunity for a few more well finaced teams. The combined series is a healthier series. With the state of the current economy and the likely direction it is going to continue to go, they need to make cost a primary concern to ensure the teams can afford to stay involved. It's a bad economy to be looking for sponsorship and the dollar will likely continue to weaken for some time, so the equipment needs to be affordable and preferrably domestically produced to avoid problems with currency fluctuation. Other than retaining the current equipment, Panoz and possibly even swift should be solicited for a new chassis. If Dallara can compete price wise against that, the more the merrier, but they really shouldn't risk too much competition right away. Sure a Panoz could be based on the dp01, but it will already be an almost 4 year old design by then. IMHO, approving an intact DP01 for 2010 is unlikely, simply because noone should start with a leg up.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDomm
Don't let the development of the DP-01 put you in a box as to how the new IRL car will be developed and the timeline involved. Be sure to read Vegasguy's post above.Quote:
Originally Posted by danny123
I believe he is exactly right. Rather than developing the car from a specific manufacturer along a very specific set of guidelines, I believe the IRL will set a collections of specs and safety standards and then turn the manufacturers lose. That will make this a totally different process than what you saw with the Panoz. That will also make that timeline invalid to a large extent. And, if it is a competitive process, you can count on it being much less open and public than the DP-01 development was.
I'm ok with the reality that there may not be a new car by the start of the 2010 season... yes, some have said that it will happen, but I think it's far from a guarantee at this point. More likely IMO is that they will continue to add improvements to the current car through the start of the 2010 season, and have a new package by 2011. Upgrades to the current car are not a bad thing - they went from methanol, to 3.5L ethanol, they added the new weight system, the paddle shifters, testing of "variable assistant steering", along with improvements in the sled and roll bar. Plus every year theres a bunch of "new parts" that get around to the different teams. Did anyone see those cool "windows" in the Penske cars at Kansas? The rest of the top tier teams will have that soon.
And the good news that I'm hearing is that they really are starting from scratch on the new car in a number of ways. It will be a re-design and not just an evolutionary improvement.
Historically, wasn't the process started in May? With the new car showing up a year and a half later.
But that is exactly what champ car did. issued a set of specs and let manufacturers lose. Both panoz and Lola came back with designs!!! Once the design deadline was reached champ car made the decision to go with panoz.Quote:
Originally Posted by tbyars
it was always the intention to go with one manufacturer but they didn't decide which one until everyone that wanted to had submitted a design to champ cars set of specifications for the new car.
I'm all for keeping the cost reasonably low, but to get this series back to where CART/IndyCar was in the early 90's we need to have a non-spec/multiple manufacturer series (for both chassis and engine, at least). The increased team count, and impact/perception of a unified series, will allow this.
IMO of course:
to keep costs dowm, make the "new" chassis an evolution of the current. Just clean up the back end to make the car not seem so rear-heavy (or sculpt the back to accommodate a turbo).
Anyone want to try a photochop of that one??
Was the Lola design basically the same formula as the DP01?Quote:
Originally Posted by BobGarage
We can only assume the preliminary design was to the same set of parameters as the DP01 was. IIRC, there was a lot of the actual design performed after the supplier was chosen. I don't recall seeing that either supplier had completed a chassis design prior to the selection. I'd like to see what the Lola would have really looked like in the flesh. IMHO, the actual DP01 doesn't look anything like the what the first rendering looked like when it was announced.
I am not that good at photoshop but here is a photoshop od the DP01 with a lower nose. Enjoy. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelred5
Cosworth Turbo
http://shutter11.pictures.aol.com/da...UsJXS102BC.jpg
Honda NA Enigine
http://shutter14.pictures.aol.com/da...sKhowP02BC.jpg
basically... here the Lola design...Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig
http://www.lola-motorsport.co.uk/med...1jpg150632.jpg
interesting - to my eye the "problem" appears to be the airbox area The Panoz with a lower nose looks fine but if you add that air box it becomes pretty ugly.....
I agree on the airbox is ugly. It could go the route of the old Indy Lights cars with no airbox.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris R
That's because it's the Dallara airbox photoshopped onto a DP01.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris R
If you want to see what the DP01 would look like with an airbox, have a look at the Superleague Formula's Panoz DP09......
http://www.autoracing1.com/Images/20...perLeague7.jpg
http://www.psv.nl/upload/145551_661_...ormula4681.jpg
http://www.superleagueformulamedia.c...e_2_18_10a.jpg
So in other words, a panoz with a NA engine will look like an F1 car.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikiec
And what's wrong with that?Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH
Sure as hell beats a 2008 Indycar!
I think a modified (for ovals) DP01 is the way to go. Get a couple of other manufacturers to build one, and stipulate a price (for the chassis and parts).
I do not much care for the Superleague air box either - although it is waaayyy better than the Dallara....
I think an Indycar should not have a significant airbox - it is just not part of the design heritage of the formula....
That might be the greatest pro turbo argument I've ever seen. That thing makes the Dallara look good.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikiec
Agreed. The Superleague car is hideous. It's like they took all the worst qualities from every other open-wheel car and put them together.Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig
That's not exactly correct, and certainly not anything along the lines I suggested. It's not '....exactly what champ car did.". Not even a scale model had been built before the contract was awarded to Panoz.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobGarage
Just to be clear, I don't anticipate the IRL selecting a single manufacturer. Publish the specs and open it up to anyone who thinks they can play.
According to the way you originally phrased it, yes, it is exactly what Champ Car did.Quote:
Originally Posted by tbyars
They created a description of how the car should perform, defined a budget the car must stay within, and let the manufacturers come up with their own designs. 4 manufacturers submitted designs, Panoz and Lola came in with the most competitive bids, and Panoz won partly on account they're based in the USA and would be cheaper in the long run for quicker turnaround of parts and shipping.
IndyCar would be smart to polish up the DP01 with whatever revisions they find necessary, make that the new car for a few years, then go back to the boards and work on something truly green and next generation as the longer term solution. Why? teams would save on running the DP01s now, and it would give time for the series to stabilize so in a few years time the specs could be opened up for mulitple manufacturers as everybody here seems to want.
It's seems to be rather late in the game to be introducing anything but the DP01 or Dallara as the new car if it's to hit the ground running in the 2010 season opener. If they choose DP01, they can use them starting in 2009 which buys more time for the next generation design to be fleshed out.
Ask yourselves this...
Why need wings?
If they can design a wingless open wheel race car that looks cutting edge and doesn't look like a Formula Ford or something out of the 1950's then great! I wouldn't hold my breath though.Quote:
Originally Posted by theugsquirrel
I think all this talk about the DP01 is a bit moot as they've already said they're looking for a style of car that is unique in its look compared to any other type of open wheel race car. I think that whatever they do, there'll be people calling it ugly and people calling it beautiful, so they can't win either way.
Originally it was Chassis announced in Jan for next year, Engine announced in June for next year or june. However that was back when they could start a season in June and end it at I500. At some point they will have to realize they need do chassis & engine at the same time if they are ever going to have real change.Quote:
Originally Posted by weeflyonthewall
Foe what it's worth these pics are not the actual Superleague car, just a concept show car with different liveries digitally added on. The actual car looks and sounds very good.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikiec
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kwkK...ueformula.net/
I don't know - it just does not do it for me - a little too F-1 in design cues. It is not a bad looking race car - just not very unique and I would be disappointed if the next Indycar were much like it....
FWIW, I like that Superleague car...even with the airbox.
That I can live with.Quote:
Originally Posted by shazbot
Where did I even hint that IndyCar should limit the new car to one manufacturer in my original post? That's just your assumption.Quote:
Originally Posted by mantom
Why do so many people hang on to the DP-01? Mark my word, when the new car is developed and announced, it will have absolutely NO relation to the Panoz DP-01. That chasis will never be used in any way by the IndyCar series. Even Panoz lists it as "out of production."Quote:
Originally Posted by mantom
The new car will be purpose-built to compete at the Indianopolis Motor Speedway, and then used everywhere else.