Will the new Impreza be a dismal failure?

At the moment, Atkinson is 7 points away from the championship lead in 3rd and is 10 clear of Latvala in 4th. He's clearly looking at the top 3 in the championship with his and the cars current consistency.

HOWEVER...

Am I the only one here who thinks that, given their hit-and-miss (mostly miss) nature over the past few years, current Subaru prosperity is likely to go downhill again when the new car is introduced later this year?

Am I also the only one that thinks they should delay the launch of the new car until next year?

New one couldn't be worse? Could it :uhoh:

the reason atkinson is only 7 points behind is that loeb crashed, and would have been 12 points ahead. my point is this unless aktinson can win rallys, he is gradually going to slip further behind.

aktinson maybe fit to win rallys as he has started to learn not to crash. he will gradually increase in speed again, practising his new found art of not crashing, but I doubt the combo will be a c4/loeb beater.

I think it will slighlty better....but not a winners car.

Well they won with a new car in 2001 and 2003 so....

Even if they get a good running car I doubt Solberg and Atkinson can do something against Loeb, Hirvonen and Latvala.

Why such negativity?

Atkinson is doing a good job, although he has not been at the leaders pace on any rallies yet, but at least he finishes.

Solberg is the complete opposite - Monte Carlo apart, Petter has been setting times almost as fast as the leader, and without bad luck in Argentina and Mexico, and Jordan even, could be second in the championship.

The new car could give Petter the reliability he craves, and Atkinson the speed, so they both improve and become champions!

It could happen ;)

Following Hirvonen in last years with Subaru, I didn't expect him to be one day in top flight. Sure he had a speed but how many rallies he did finish?!

I think we should give Chris more time and I am sure if he was given a C4 or a Focus, he would suprise everybody here. Remember guys, driving a Subaru is another fight for him before even thinking fighting with other drivers.

But I am pleased with his learning and he is doing well than Petter who should be doing better than him given the time, money and support he received and still receive from Subaru. Why is always Petter having problems not Chris? Chris is rallying using his head (intelligence) knowing the limit and all the weaknesses of his car. But Petter seems lost in the game.

I think Chris is doing really well compared to the S*** car he has got.

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Originally Posted by WRC2006

Following Hirvonen in last years with Subaru, I didn't expect him to be one day in top flight. Sure he had a speed but how many rallies he did finish?!

I think we should give Chris more time and I am sure if he was given a C4 or a Focus, he would suprise everybody here. Remember guys, driving a Subaru is another fight for him before even thinking fighting with other drivers.

But I am pleased with his learning and he is doing well than Petter who should be doing better than him given the time, money and support he received and still receive from Subaru. Why is always Petter having problems not Chris? Chris is rallying using his head (intelligence) knowing the limit and all the weaknesses of his car. But Petter seems lost in the game.

I think Chris is doing really well compared to the S*** car he has got.

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Very good point.

And for Chris' part I agree so much I can't breath :up:

What comes to Petter it would be interesting to see. Does he still have what it takes or not ? I'd like to believe he still fights for wins.

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Originally Posted by Malllen

Am I the only one here who thinks that, given their hit-and-miss (mostly miss) nature over the past few years, current Subaru prosperity is likely to go downhill again when the new car is introduced later this year?

Am I also the only one that thinks they should delay the launch of the new car until next year?

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Yes and Yes

Thing is they're not really missing out on anything with not running the old car. It's not like they're risking ending a winning streak. Personally I think debuting the new car ASAP is a good idea.

In the article of Japanese rally magazine called WRC Plus, they talk about how Chris doesn't demand THE perfect set-up for his car. As long as the car is set up decently, Chris will drive to get best out of it. On the other hand, Petter likes to set up his car to perfectly match his liking, which often ends up spending so much time setting-up Petter's car instead of testing a major development. Now Chris has more "say" in the team, they say the development work progresses alot faster. So back to the topic of the thread, the new car may not be significant improvement, but I expect Chris to perform as good as right now while Petter may or may not struggle with the introduction of a new Impreza.

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Originally Posted by SUBARUNORWAY1

Well they won with a new car in 2001 and 2003 so....

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And 2000, with the P2000. First rally, first win in Portugal..

No, I think that the Subaru's will be competitive from the start.

Chris will probably be the new leader of the team once the dust settles.
Petter is a good driver, but not as great as when he won the title.

As I said before....only time will tell!

To state the obvious, Petter and the Subaru is just not in tune, as Loeb is to the C4, it look really clumsy at times, he has to struggle with it. They had to hired Markko to do test. Some suggested that Petter test ability is not great, I don't know and I can't tell, maybe his championship win in 2003 is helped with support from Makinen, but I don't know. I still notice Petter's greater experience when compared to Chris, you don't need an eagle eyes to watch the onboard to see how much smoother and better technique he has compared to Chris 'was', he also write better pacenotes I think, although Chris is really doing good. Just need the right car, so it is good Subaru or Prodrive is delaying it, but my feeling is the same as the original poster, it will improve a bit, but I'm not sure if it can take outright wins, maybe small success and no titles, or by the time they get the title Citroen is already out (2009). Hope they prove me wrong. I have to praise Phil for staying with Petter all this long and concerntrate, I wonder how all this is affecting his motivation aswell.

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Originally Posted by pettersolberg29

Solberg is the complete opposite - Monte Carlo apart, Petter has been setting times almost as fast as the leader, and without bad luck in Argentina and Mexico, and Jordan even, could be second in the championship.

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So even the crasch he did was bad luck??

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Originally Posted by Koppomsbo

So even the crasch he did was bad luck??

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Not luck but lunacy. I heard the note, Phil said it loud and clear, then Petter takes a nose dive into a slow corner and rolls. This was avoidable! Damn, now I'm frustrated because of Petter's shortcomings. The new Subaru better be a panacea or I don't see Petter around for too long.

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Originally Posted by pettersolberg29

Why such negativity?

Atkinson is doing a good job, although he has not been at the leaders pace on any rallies yet, but at least he finishes.

Solberg is the complete opposite - Monte Carlo apart, Petter has been setting times almost as fast as the leader, and without bad luck in Argentina and Mexico, and Jordan even, could be second in the championship.

The new car could give Petter the reliability he craves, and Atkinson the speed, so they both improve and become champions!

It could happen ;)

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Can we really consider mechanical failures as "unlucky" ??? :confused:


In this case Suzuki are damn UNLUCKY and not doing bad work on the cars :laugh: :p :

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Originally Posted by koko0703

In the article of Japanese rally magazine called WRC Plus, they talk about how Chris doesn't demand THE perfect set-up for his car. As long as the car is set up decently, Chris will drive to get best out of it. On the other hand, Petter likes to set up his car to perfectly match his liking, which often ends up spending so much time setting-up Petter's car instead of testing a major development. Now Chris has more "say" in the team, they say the development work progresses alot faster. So back to the topic of the thread, the new car may not be significant improvement, but I expect Chris to perform as good as right now while Petter may or may not struggle with the introduction of a new Impreza.

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That's very interesting. :up:

I made this thread after an obvious upturn in form after Subaru's several years twiddling their thumbs and having crashes, I wouldn't like to see those days return.

On another note, at which round is the new car meant to debut?

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Originally Posted by Koppomsbo

So even the crasch he did was bad luck??

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Petter story
"Then, as we were running fastest on SS15, the brake caliper started leaking and we had to ease off. It was so disappointing to go off in the last stage, and that was the end for us. I couldn't slow the car down enough when we came to a sharp right-hand corner after a fast straight. I thought we had enough run-off, but there was a ditch we went into and that was it."

Petter drove slow on Monte and Sweden and got good points, when he try to push the car is falling apart brakes, dampers, electrical, gearboxes, everything :down:

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Originally Posted by Tom206wrc

Can we really consider mechanical failures as "unlucky" ??? :confused:


In this case Suzuki are damn UNLUCKY and not doing bad work on the cars :laugh: :p :

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Petter is having bad luck now, but rememeber the good luck he had, especially in 2003 when it could be said he reversed into the Championship. Citroen/Loeb got their tyre choices wrong in Corsica and Catalunya - costing him 2 wins, plus the wet conditions which suited Pirellis.

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Originally Posted by Buzz Lightyear

aktinson maybe fit to win rallys as he has started to learn not to crash. he will gradually increase in speed again, practising his new found art of not crashing, but I doubt the combo will be a c4/loeb beater.

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I think it's less about Atko "learning not to crash" and more about Prevot being more compatible with Atko than McNeall.

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Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

I think it's less about Atko "learning not to crash" and more about Prevot being more compatible with Atko than McNeall.

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Quite ironic regarding the season Prévot codrove Duval ;)

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Originally Posted by Tom206wrc

Quite ironic regarding the season Prévot codrove Duval ;)

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maybe duval was the problem in that car.

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Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

I think it's less about Atko "learning not to crash" and more about Prevot being more compatible with Atko than McNeall.

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I agree. I said it all along when McNeall was co-driving. The guy has no rhythm in the way he delivers his notes and his tone isn't the best either.

I agree with Tomi that Duval was the problem in that Xsara.

Chris has achieved consistently good results, but what I am afraid of is that even if the new car is quicker, it would be unreliable and Chris would fail to continue scoring good consistent points like he is doing now. In the current state of WRC finishing is more important than just pure speed. There is no doubt that Loeb has been clearly faster than Atko so far this year, but he has had one more retirement and therefore is only 2 points ahead.

Conclusion: Better drive a car, which consistently brings you a 3rd place rather than a car, which finishes in 2nd position in half of the rallies, but retires from the other half.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Thing is they're not really missing out on anything with not running the old car. It's not like they're risking ending a winning streak. Personally I think debuting the new car ASAP is a good idea.

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I think it's not about missing anything, it's about getting the job done right.
If they rush the new car development, their struggle may continue.
Of course, if they have (can afford) two development teams working in parallel, then yes, they are not missing much, it may actually help.

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Originally Posted by Fischer

Even if they get a good running car I doubt Solberg and Atkinson can do something against Loeb, Hirvonen and Latvala.

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Are you serious??? Both drivers have the ability to beat all 3 of those drivers (particularly Hirvonen and Latvala), the only thing holding them back is the POS Subaru keep giving them.

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Originally Posted by WRC2006

I think we should give Chris more time and I am sure if he was given a C4 or a Focus, he would suprise everybody here. Remember guys, driving a Subaru is another fight for him before even thinking fighting with other drivers.

I think Chris is doing really well compared to the S*** car he has got.

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Exactly

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Originally Posted by jens

Chris has achieved consistently good results, but what I am afraid of is that even if the new car is quicker, it would be unreliable and Chris would fail to continue scoring good consistent points like he is doing now. In the current state of WRC finishing is more important than just pure speed. There is no doubt that Loeb has been clearly faster than Atko so far this year, but he has had one more retirement and therefore is only 2 points ahead.

Conclusion: Better drive a car, which consistently brings you a 3rd place rather than a car, which finishes in 2nd position in half of the rallies, but retires from the other half.

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Won't your countryman Markko Märtin drive the new Subie on some occasion this year ?? :confused:

I think the car will be on the speed from the first competitve stage.

The SWRT have spend a wad of cash, a lot of time building/designing/testing/adjusting to get the car back all with Subaru Ajapan oin thier backs.
They have a great test driver in Marco Martin (I still wish he would return :( ), so i cant see how the car can fail.

If anythying, there might be mechanical reliability issues, but as far as speed is concerned the car will be up as a definate rally winner.

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Originally Posted by Tom206wrc

Won't your countryman Markko Märtin drive the new Subie on some occasion this year ?? :confused:

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There have been rumours about his participation in the Finnish rally, but nothing concrete yet. :)

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Originally Posted by jens

There have been rumours about his participation in the Finnish rally, but nothing concrete yet. :)

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Now im excited!

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Originally Posted by jens

Chris has achieved consistently good results, but what I am afraid of is that even if the new car is quicker, it would be unreliable and Chris would fail to continue scoring good consistent points like he is doing now. In the current state of WRC finishing is more important than just pure speed. There is no doubt that Loeb has been clearly faster than Atko so far this year, but he has had one more retirement and therefore is only 2 points ahead.

Conclusion: Better drive a car, which consistently brings you a 3rd place rather than a car, which finishes in 2nd position in half of the rallies, but retires from the other half.

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Like I said above, I repeat it again, Chris is driving the Subaru Impreza according to the weaknesses of the car. He doesn't push it hard because he knows already that the car will never cope with the pressure. The real example is Petter who crashes almost in every rally while trying to push it hard. Why do you ask him to push the car which break down every time it is pushed on the limit? Better to slow down and score important points for his team.

Remember his main target is to score as much as possible for his boss before thinking on his personal interest. Following this, I think he is doing a brilliant job compared to the car he has.

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Originally Posted by jens

There have been rumours about his participation in the Finnish rally, but nothing concrete yet. :)

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Hasn't Markko gone on record saying that he doesn't want to drive competitively again?

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Originally Posted by grugsticles

I think the car will be on the speed from the first competitve stage.

The SWRT have spend a wad of cash, a lot of time building/designing/testing/adjusting to get the car back all with Subaru Ajapan oin thier backs.
They have a great test driver in Marco Martin (I still wish he would return :( ), so i cant see how the car can fail.

If anythying, there might be mechanical reliability issues, but as far as speed is concerned the car will be up as a definate rally winner.

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Yep, me too. This is SWRT's chance to address the issues with the old car, I think they will take it with both hands.

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Originally Posted by WRC2006

Why do you ask him to push the car which break down every time it is pushed on the limit? Better to slow down and score important points for his team.

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Where did I say this? I'm satisfied with his consistency. :)

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Hasn't Markko gone on record saying that he doesn't want to drive competitively again?

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That too, but on the other hand - never say never. :p : Those Finnish rally rumours have so far indeed been only rumours and Subaru has officially denied them.

i'm sort'a under the impression that the new car will be worse ... it probably won't be until the 2009 season that they get all the kinks knocked out.... GO SUBARU!

I think both Subaru driver's are winning talent and I think Prodrive will probably be making a better car but I'm skeptical on whether the new car will be a winner because of its size/wheelbase etc. I'm no engineer but it seems like the short wheelbase cars (focus/C4/Xsara/206) are winners while all the long ones (EVO/Impreza/307) have struggled in general.

Doesn't the new Imprezza have a longer wheelbase than the current one by something like 10cm? I so badly want them to be winning again but I'm not convinced its going to happen until Subaru corporate can give them a smaller car to work with.

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Originally Posted by Kharts

I think both Subaru driver's are winning talent and I think Prodrive will probably be making a better car but I'm skeptical on whether the new car will be a winner because of its size/wheelbase etc. I'm no engineer but it seems like the short wheelbase cars (focus/C4/Xsara/206) are winners while all the long ones (EVO/Impreza/307) have struggled in general.

Doesn't the new Imprezza have a longer wheelbase than the current one by something like 10cm? I so badly want them to be winning again but I'm not convinced its going to happen until Subaru corporate can give them a smaller car to work with.

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A long wheelbase isn't a bad thing.