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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/65952
Oh dear. :\Quote:
Red Bull Racing have been asked to supply a technical report to the FIA to explain why the stewards should not consider excluding them from the Malaysian Grand Prix on safety grounds, following David Coulthard's accident in first practice.
Could they just exclude Sponge Bob? He's a menace! :D
IMO they went a bit to far with the design process in that area.
Putting it down to an adhesive that failed it's not enough to prove that the next time it won't be the same under hard braking.
And BTW, why did that adhesive failed? Maybe the contact surface is too small.
Well, it was interesting how the suspension, esp. the rear suspension of DC, seem to come "unglued" in the contact with Massa while massa sufferred no apparent damge to his. Pieces were going everywhere!!
Does anyone have a link showing the accident, please! We didn't have that here on TV. :(
your missunderstanding what happened here. The adhesive failure is what caused the track rod to fail which sent DC off the track in the first place, its not what caused all of his wheels to come flying off, that was caused by hitting the curbing too hard. As for the crash in melbourne, DC's car didn't brake up from contact with massa's car, the impact with massa's car just launched DC into the air, it was the subsequent landing that caused the suspension to brake apart.Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
if you read the article it tells you why the adhesive failed, the adhesive failed due to human error, the person who put it together did not treat it properly and therefore it didn't properly seal. Again this failure only caused DC to go off the road, and is quite seperate to the suspension all braking apart which appened after he rode over the curb, exactly the same as how Timo Glock's toyota came apart in the last race! So its hardly just RBR who's suspension comes apart due to impact with a curb!Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Human error is the easiest to blame as it can't be really checked afterwards.Quote:
Originally Posted by RJL25
But I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.
If they don't get things right at this level of technology than this season will be like many others before.
Yes, I'm rather surprised that the connection has been made with the accident in Australia. I didn't think the damage caused to Coulthard's car was any worse than what you would expect in such an incident.Quote:
Originally Posted by RJL25
However, it is very unusual for the stewards to bring something like this up, so they probably have a genuine, specific concern. Whether it's right or not, we shall see.
Suspension? Like Toyota in Canada last year.
After winter testing there were quite high expectations on Red Bull and also suggestions that they are finally reliable. Well, not!
And who compares Glock's and Coulthard's accidents at Melbourne, then as much as I remember Timo's accident was more serious, so I wouldn't make such comparison.
Just saw Webber's, incident, no way was that bad enough to cause a car to loose it's suspension bits if everything is okay. They hit kerbs much worse than that.
In this short areticle on MTV3 webpage it says that in an interview on SpeedTV Mark Webber was concerned about how fragile their car is, this interview was done on Thursday.
http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/f1/uutise...2008/03/626359
Even Martin Brundle commented on ITV at the time how DC's car was destroyed by the contact with Massa, while Massa drove away unscathed.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Is there a thread for the BBC taking over F1 coverage from ITV yet?
That wouldn't give me a great deal of confidence at high speed in a RBR!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by RJL25
Ah, didn't hear that. Must have been making myself a coffee!Quote:
Originally Posted by grantb4
I don't think I would feel comfortable driving at 300kph in a car that has been glued together :D
What of I tell you that some suspension parts of the TGV (Train Grande Vitesse) that travels at over 300 kph are glued together?!Quote:
Originally Posted by maxu05
In fact the technique of gluing parts together is very advanced and widely used in the automotive, aeronautical and transporting industry.
Does anyone have a link showing the prang, please.
yes someone break out some vid of that shunt! please?Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
Of course it can be checked. Take sample parts and test them under similar loads. If they fail, it a design problem, if they don't it's a manufacturing problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
The more you write on this forum the less credible you get.
It's called composites!Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
As someone pointed out already DC's failed while hitting the ground after being launched into the air by contact with Massa. For that matter so did Timo's. He got launched by a little bump off track and the subsequent landing destroyed the car.
DC's car fell apart in practice after going off the track in a flat out section, and then hitting the back side of the curbs while coming back across the track, pretty much at full speed.
Now I'm not saying the RB4 isn't fragile, but certainly there are fairly logical reasons for why the failures have happened and they don't immediately point to an unsafe car.
Found it Valve. Not as dramatic as I imagined. It disassembled effortlessly!Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
http://www.pcplanets.com/videoyoutub...1xsiI4tM.shtml
And what if it were two massive metal parts glued together?Quote:
Originally Posted by jjanicke
PS: I know what composites are, and I was not talking about them.
That's exactly the problem, nothing dramatic and still the front suspension disintegrated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazio
I see what you mean. That ought not to have happened!
The car appeared to come back onto the track via the curb, and the suspension just fell apart. It was not as if the car was launched like in Melbourne, nor Glock's prang where the car was lunched into the air after it ran over the service road's edge.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Something's not right here and Red Bull had better check their assembly procedures very carefully.
Thanks Taz. I watched the vid again, and the second one is better. I don't think the tub flew into the air at all. The front suspension just came off :eek:
Unless RBR can show that they have completely overcome this problem, then that car should not be raced.
I've made some disparaging comments about DC lately! I actually over did it a bit!
Apologies to his fans!
Now, I have serious concern if either RB belongs on the grid!
This should be a very serious consideration of the Stewards. They probably will run!
What should the consequences be if they have a similar failure in the race?
I just wonder if this is the car they stuck back together after Melbourne.
Two massive parts of metal glued together is called a composite. The Automative industry, in particular Lotus, has been using this COMPOSITE technique for a while now.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Watch, and more importantly listen to the video again. The impact on the back side of the curbs is very dramatic and makes a huge impact sound.
It's also very interesting that the left tire hits the curb first, remains intact, and then the right tire hits and breaks. The part failure that led to the off in the first place was on the right side. Certainly the failure of that part could inturn, with a sever impact to the backside of the curb, lead to the suspension failure.
Isn't the impact sound also the sound of the failure, rather than just the tyre hitting the kerb?Quote:
Originally Posted by jjanicke
And another question — is there a precedent for the stewards withdrawing a car, or team, from a race on safety grounds? I can't recall it happening before.
Lotus from Le Mans.
I was thinking about F1. I take it you're talking about the 24 Hours?Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
Minardi in Spain (?) 2002 did not start either car in the race because of safety concerns. However in that case the team managed to convince the FIA to take that action... The FIA didn't tell them they couldn't participate, like they would be doing in this case if the car is deemed unsafe.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
That's all I can recall from the recent past...
With approximately 7 hours to go, then what are the latest news? Will Red Bull participate?
Anyway, the video shows quite obviously that the suspension failed way too easily.
The teather of the Rt. front also let go!
Adrian Newey has a history of building fragile cars, I seem to remember a problem with McLarens suspension a few years ago
Yikes. Reminds me of Monza last year, when DC's car just fell to pieces going through the Curva Grande. I wonder if that car is the same one that DC crashed in last week.
Maybe Airfix or Revell will sponsor a team :D