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Hi, I'm plannig to start rallying here in Canada, and I would like you guys to tell me which car do you think is the best for that. Here there is a 2WD categories but im interested in the 4WD categories. I have a budget of around 50 000$ for the car only excluding the modification required. I keep 10 000 for the modification required. Please remember I'm in north america so there is no european car dealer like peugot or citroen. Thanks for the tips.
Honda Civic or a Volkswagen GTI or Rabbit for FWD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meeve
Head over to rallyanarchy.com and specialstage.com and you will find more US/Canadian centric posters that will be more familiar with CARS and US rules and options.
to be brutally honest, if you're new to the business, you're wasting your money with all-wheel drive.
it will be better than you are and will make you look better than you are.
while this is good for the ego, it's not good to help you get better.
it will be more expensive to repair when you crash, as you inevitably will, because it will deliver you to your braking points quicker than you will initially understand how to expect.
and forget all about buying something and turning it into a rally car. buy an existing rally car and go from there. if there's nothing in north america, hop a plane to europe (or find someone you trust who knows the world and a good website) and you will find hundreds of cheap, well-built front-drive rally cars for sale and you can pick one you like, crate it and a heap of spares up and ship it back home and still have tens of thousands of dollars to spare.
the idea of a golf is a good one, because north america should have plenty of golf panels, but it's not going to cost you that much to be parts self-sufficient for a while.
i suggest front drive because it's the best way to learn to drive an all-wheel drive and, with less grip out of corners, you will arrive slower at the next bend, giving you more time to get your technique down pat. only then should you think about stepping up.
forget chasing horsepower, too. chase driver training, chase test time, chase tyres, chase dampers, chase springs and chase brakes (in about that order) long before you ever crack your engine open.
swallow your ego for a while because it's the only way to eventually get to where you want to be.
I see that you live in Quebec.
Buy Simon Losier's Honda Civic. Extremely well prepared car which he used to win the 2007 Coupe du Quebec.
He is rallying a Mitsubishi Evo this year and the Civic is for sale.
Contact him at Boisvert Mitsubishi in Blainville.
Doug Woods
What Mickey T said. Spot on.
Mickey T is exactly right. Forget 4wd for a while and learn your craft in 2wd. I personally think that going the route of Rwd, then Fwd, then 4wd is the way to go (people have differing opinions on this).
Do you have a type of car that you are passionate about? For me this is a good way to go because you are going to be spending endless hours working on the thing so you might as well like the car that you're working on. A car that there are plenty of parts for (in your area) and that can take a beating are the way to go (you won't believe how much of a beating a rally car must take). Also having a car that you have worked on in the past is very handy so you already know some of its idiosyncrasies.
Oh yeah and to second Mickey T again; forget horsepower in your equation. Look at everything else in your car setup first. There is no point to having a lot of power that you can’t put to the ground properly. Think about grip, handling and making it easy to drive first then look at horsepower.
Take your time, learn the craft, and don’t try to be Colin McRae on the first rally.
Just my opinion…
Well we can't tell you that without knowing more of what your goals in rally are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meeve
It also helps to know what you have done in life in motorsports, or sports in general, how much you intend to do yourself to build and or maintain the car.
Many people seem to want something that is essentially all done, and the easiest path, and so they buy Subaru or Mitsubishi turbo AWD vehicles which work very well, so good in fact that some WRC drivers have said recently that it is boring to watch modern rallies.
But if easy gratification and easy results is your goal, it may be the pathway.
Can we explore that for a bit? Why 4wd?Quote:
Here there is a 2WD categories but im interested in the 4WD categories.
If you intend this to be a career, you're in the wrong Continent.
If your goal is to fight for victories and have lots of fun----remember Rally is primarily a social function---the any basically good car will give you lots of fun, and it has yet to be proven that spending 40,000 on 4WD will be any multiple MORE fun than a simpler, more affordable and LESS COSTLY TO RUN 2wd car.
Well why not look at what some of the very active countries, and see what the normal cars that guys use. Maybe Google "F-cup", the Finnish National class for 2wd cars and see the numbers of guys using simple light 2wd cars can be.Quote:
I have a budget of around 50 000$ for the car only excluding the modification required. I keep 10 000 for the modification required. Please remember I'm in north america so there is no european car dealer like peugot or citroen. Thanks for the tips.
Im with Duff with regards to rwd. If you are rallying for enjoyment, Rwd is generally considered to be more fun. Despite owning a good handling fwd roadcar Its not something Id consider for rallying, but then thats just me..
You've been given great advice on this thread.. To echo the points above.. dont make the mistake most people make of going out and buying the best, most powerful 4wd car you can when your starting out. You'll get just as much fun out of a 2 wheel drive car, learn far more in the process and save yourself wads when you have your offs.. especially as you learn... pushing yourself, exploring yours and the cars limits.. it will happen.
Keep us updated on what you buy and your progress... and good luck!
i am a co driver and have spoken to many a driver and co driver, conclusion we all came to is unless you are driving a WRC or S2000 ,a 2 wheel drive car is by far more fun to drive.
Also a low budget car will let you do more rallying kms which is the most important and the desired target. A car of this kind is going to be easier to maintain allowing you to buy all the needed spare parts. You will not have so much the stress if a problem occurs that you might miss the next rally or not having the parts you need in the service of rally. Believe me having as many spare parts almost another same car is very important. Don't forget that anything can happen within a rally stage. If you buy a 4WD like a Subi for example don't forget to ask how much is a spare gearbox or a differential.....!
A fast car , more expensive, can be a huge trap limiting your budget more and more resulting to do less races than you have scheduled. The result will be added stress for a very expensive hobby (even with a cheap car) which can take away the pleasure of doing it.
I totally agree with what Mickey T and the rest of the guys said.
Anyway I think a slow car can learn you drive faster since you have to find the ways to make it go fast by improving your driving skills.
I agree with the others, starting with 2WD is always better. If you're a natural you will eventually become fast, whether you begin with 4WD or not. I know of a few who started their carreer a 4WD, and became very fast, but they had never driven anything else and that is a big disadvantage. Start off with FWD, then you'll learn all the essential techniques of driving a 4WD.
Toni Gardemeister once said that driving a WRC is more like driving a S1600 (which is FWD) than an N4 (Group N Evo, Impreza). So if you're aiming for the stars, I'd suggest a FWD.
I don't know everything about your classes and cars in North America, but generally running an N3 (Clio, Fiesta etc.) is cheaper (i.e. they are more reliable) than running a competent Group A or nationally classed 2WD, for the same kind of performance (except Kit Cars). I know you don't have French manufacturers over there, but anyway.
The Golf's you're talking about - I assume they compete in a sort of open 2WD class, with a pretty free regulation? I've seen some footage from North America recently, and the 2WD cars don't seem very fast. What kind of 2WD cars have you got over there? In terms of engine, suspension, gearbox etc.
About buying from Europe, here you'll find all the cars available from WRC to 2WD: http://www.rallycarsforsale.net/