I want to put the politics aside for a moment, and ask a simple question: Who in here is sick of the split, and what can we, collectively speaking as open wheel race fans, do about it? I'm interested in hear from as many people as possible.
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I want to put the politics aside for a moment, and ask a simple question: Who in here is sick of the split, and what can we, collectively speaking as open wheel race fans, do about it? I'm interested in hear from as many people as possible.
WE can't do anything. Tony George is the only person who could do it but he doesn't want to.
i wouldn't agree with old3fan - it takes agreement from two parties before a merge can happen.
I agree, and as long as he has another half billion or so to burn, it will continue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old3Fan
I beg to differ....he is NOT the ONLY person that can do anything about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old3Fan
Champ Car World Series should give up the ghost and as in Robin Miller's words:
"sell it's assets to Tony George and save money, if not open wheel racing"
We as fans can't really do anything about it except vote with our pocketbooks.
All I know is, I have spent ZERO dollars on Champ Car events or goods.
This year I have spent about $1,700 on IRL related expenses including attending 3 races and buying tons of t shirts, hats, decals, etc etc. and being an active member of Downforce.
Also, I go out of my way to send my business and spend my dollars with IRL sponsors. And it's really not that hard to do with Target, 7 Eleven, Fuji, Aamco, Motorola, etc. etc.
I enjoy the racing and follow maybe 2 drivers at most in Champ Car but not enough to spend any money on it. TV is about it when it comes to CCWS for me.
If Champ Car had the Indy 500, it would be a different story. I would be spending all my money with Champ Car.
would it get their attention of nobody were to watch or attend the races anymore? bernie ecclestone always said he couldn't care less about the crowds, it's the tv ratings that matter. i've been to a few champ car and IRL races and i have to say that most of the people i met at the track hardly knew anything about the drivers or teams but just wanted to see what was going on. they obviously hardly ever watched a race on tv, so if what ecclestone says also holds truth on the IRL and champ car, maybe not watching the races would force the owners to merge?
i'm wondering, though, with villeneuve, franchitti and montoya all going stock car racing, will some american NASCAR drivers make the switch to open wheels? i recently read zanardi was asked to join vasser's team. this must mean that there are some teams out there that can actually afford to pay a driver to race for them. since it's obvious both series are only popular in north america and they obviously need more north american drivers in competitive rides for the general public to take an interest in open wheel racing, why then do teams like penske or ganassi not hire some canadian or american drivers? seems to me the european and south american invasion coincided with CART's decline. now that franchitti et al are going to NASCAR, why not put some top level stock car guys in the penske, AGR or ganassi dallara's?
I think it is largely out of our hands.... TV numbers are practically nothing for CCWS and hardly much better for the bulk of the IRL season (and it is only this year that the meat of the IRL season has been significantly better rated than Champcar....) yet this has not forced a change....
Both series have lost many non-performing events (events that should have done well) and this has not made a difference.....
CCWS lost all of its manufacturer support - that has not forced a change yet....
Both series are one chassis, one engine "spec" series - this has not forced a change...
The Indy 500 doesn't sell out anymore.... this has not forced a change...
Top rated racing journalists have been slamming both series forthe past 10 years - this has not forced a change...
Fans have been actively calling for one series for nearly 10 years - that has not forced achange....
I am begining to wonder if the principals of either side are sane - they have each other by the neck and they are both turning blue...
I think the only thing we can really do is sit and wait - unless someone out there has more racing dedication, business acumen and MONEY than either "side" and wants to start a third series that will bury both the CCWS and IRL (I am more and more thinking that this might be the only way out....)
yeah, trouble is that both series are run by very stubborn individuals that refuse to give way and who unfortunately have the necessary funding to keep both series afloat without good prospects for the future.
as it was said before, if kalkhoven and forsythe really loved american open wheel racing, they'd sell out to the IERL, which looks much more than CART than champ car does, anyway.
I am not sure there is anything we can really do as fans, we can just watch and hope. When CART went bankrupt, I thought it would actually be a good thing, because I already saw that it was going to evolve into the Cart ver. 2.0 that it is now becoming. I knew Penske et al had decided the way to change was working from the inside, and that has been what has come to pass. I was disheartened when OWRS was formed, because I knew all the problems and damage would continue.
Now, I am a complete outsider and only a fan, but from the outside, it would appear that Champcar is faltering, with the exception of Europe. They could build on that of course, but then Who are they? Are they an F1 feeder? Are they the series that claims history to 1909? There seems to be no direction or purpose, and I question the need for their existence, because as far as I can tell, they only exist to spite Tony George. Ultimately I don't think that's enough to sustain them, because like it or not, AOW needs the Indy 500 to build around, and it needs it's most diehard fans to not be sniping at each other all the time.
That said, a merger and one series tomorrow does not magically make everything alright, but it would at least be a point to stop the bleeding and start the healing so to speak. We all need to work together and all this hate and blame and name-calling don't do anyone any good. (In fact it turns off a lot of potential new fans. Imagine hanging around a divorced person that blames everything that's wrong in their life on the ex and you'll know what I mean.) Forgiveness is divine, so we have to forgive Tony George, or Penske, or Rahal, or Honda, or KK, or Paul Newman for whatever sins they might have done against open wheel, because we all need to work together. A note on forgiveness, if you have wronged me and I forgive you, I do it for me and my well-being, not for you, otherwise hatred and resentment might build up inside of me and cause me damage. From the outside, there's a lot of hatred and resentment in open-wheel, it doesn't do any of us any good.
Back on-topic, Chapparral asked what can we do. As I said before, I don't believe there is much we can do unless we work for one of the prospective series. I do see that Champcar is at a tipping point in my opinion. Tony George appears to be interested in only waiting them out and putting them out of business, which would only lead to more bitterness I am afraid. In my job, I am a salesman, and more to the point, I am a broker, a middleman. I am the guy everone's always trying to cut out. I am often told, by a prospective customer, "we don't need you, we know what we're doing." Still, I keep track of projects and their progress, and more often than not, they discover they do need me, they can use my help. That's good, but I also know the very important value of saving face, gloating and "toldyaso's" won't win me any points. If I can, I'll let them think it was their idea all along to use me, and the next time, they call me direct from the git-go.
Now what that all means is that If I were Tony George, seeing how things appear to be from the outside, I would come in with a proposal for them to save face and be able to bow out gracefully and bring the two series together. We could end up where things are eventually heading now instead of two years from now and get a start on where we should have been back in 2003.
out of our hands. i would like to see them both die right now. they are a mutual blight on the great legacy that was indycar.