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Even though a little hope appeared at debut of Subaru WRC 08; rapidly we can see more the same................. After a ton of money Subaru fights with Class "B" teams and Solberg and Atkinson celebrates 5th or 6th places. Pathetic !!!!! So the question is (AND FORGET THE DRIVERS) what the other two teams have that is absent in Subaru. (also lucky is not a valid answer).
what they are lacking??
flair, out-of-the-box thinking, charisma, speed of development, engine apparently lacking power now, dampers.. and a decent color scheme!
One quick solution... offer Christain Lorioux €10m per year, and that should do it.
I don't buy the story about dampers being the main reason for poor succes. Obviously there must be more than one factor to explain their current form. Shock-absorbers are probably one problem but it's not the whole problem. There is good reasons to believe that even 2004 Impreza would be faster than current model (with it Petter paralleled Marcus + Peugeot and we know that Peugeot was still quite competitive in 2006 against new Focus, so consequently Subaru 2004 model also should have been).
There must be fundamental problems with weigh-distribution and geometry. I heard that Subaru's engine is placed even more forward than before - and we know that even the old model had nasty tendency to nose-landings.. It's interesting to note that new Impreza has been back-ward step likewise in group N. Jari Ketomaa was probably the fastest finnish group N driver with the Mitsubishi but at the moment he is way behind with the new Subaru. Novikov retired with the Subaru and took the old model for rally russia (and then decided to go Mitsu). To my knowledge Toshi Arai is driving with the new group N Subaru and he is nowhere.
It seems to be brutal fact that Subaru will not get any results with current model They need major modifications, and I don't know how much is possible. Can they move their engine backward in next homologation? I guess not.
Finni I do agree with you... and unfortunately with just Ford and Citroen fighting it is very boring. More than that, I heard Citroen will retire after 09 movig to DTM. So FIA should move fast to leverage current category otherwise WRC will be just another forgettable category. I really miss Group B cars............................
i think it is the engine... maybe engine mapping... it must be the boxer engine still just can't do the things the others ... i've been saying it for a while but citroen just sounds down right angry when seb slams on the accelerator... it sounds different than any other car... i think Citroen is putting more money into devolpment... better facilities maybe?
i do agree its quite fustrating being a subaru fan and seeing them no where near the top... but then again... H. solberg isn't doing that hot lately.... maybe it just is the drivers...
I am not an engineer but two things are certain about engines.
Firstly, there is very limited potential for development with the restrictor fitted. Some engines may have (very) little more power than others and the difference between torque curves and driveability might even be noticeable but those factors do not explain Subaru's lack of pace.
Secondly, Subaru has wildly different configuration from anyone else because of the boxer engine. It is very low but very wide and most importantly, it cannot be canted backwards like transverse in-line engines of C4 and Focus can be. Consequently, centre of the gravity of Impreza is inherently further forward than the opposition. How well Prodrive has managed to offset this by relocating everything else towards back is difficult to ascertain but when their opposition is going for as central CoG as possible by moving so small components as switches or wiring looms, I'd say they are fighting a losing battle.
In the other words, hiring Loriaux might not help as there is only so much that can be achieved with the base car.
What Subaru doesn't have compared with Citroen and Ford is one question, but another question is what Subaru has lost. Although Impreza WRC2005 only won one event (excluding Wales GB 2005), WRC2005 could fight for the victory against Citroen and Peugeot in 2005. Subaru went down hill with the introduction of WRC2006 and never recovered since then.
If I remember correctly, the biggest difference between WRC2005 and WRC2006 is that 2006 model has passive diff, and I start to wonder if diff setup, mapping, or whatever related to diff is the factor that makes difference between top boys and Subaru. Impreza had been almost even with other top teams until 2005 so it's hard to imagine something haven't changed makes that much difference in one year.
Subaru has been crying about dumpers last couple years but I start to doubt the problem is really the dumper.
jonkka: It is possible to move center of gravity even with longitudinal engine infront of front axle but what is not possible to change is huge polar moment of innertia of such engine. Perfect example was Audi Quattro S1. It had Some 55/45 weight distribution but it was very understeery due to big innertia of the nose. Peugeot 205 or Lancia S4 had much worse weight distribution but as they had middle engines, they had very small innertia (everything close to centre of gravity). I think that is one realy big problem of Subaru.
Another one is boxer itself in my opinion. You know when You have one turbo but two cylinder heads far from each other, You lose more pressure in pipes in my opinion. Two cylinder heads mean longer exhaust, longer cables, longer pipes, bigger engine block, that all at least is heavy. Another thing is engine configuration. If You look at bore x stroke numbers, Subaru is completely different to any other car. They have large bore but very small stroke. It would be good for hi-rews engine in my opinion but hi-rews are something impossible with restrictor. All opponents are using much bigger stroke giving them huge torque in low rpm.
Of course it is possible but everything Subaru engineers can do in that respect is something that their counterparts in Ford and Citroen can do as well - plus that their engine is further back and tilted backwards. So, it is an advantage that no Subaru effort can nullify, meaning centre of gravity on Citroen and Ford is more ideal (as close to midpoint longitudinally, as close to center laterally and as low as possible).Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Mirek Fric [Cze
I don't dispute the issue, just correct the facts. S1's weight distribution was at 52:48 compared to 58:42 of Sport quattro and even worse in Group 4 quattro A1/A2.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Mirek Fric [Cze
I couldn't be all due the engine. Remember the "snake incident" ?? What was the reason for that? For a long period of time with the 2006 --> model, the handling was worse than bad.