another school shooting in U.S. of A. :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starter

Ask me if I care how well we are liked or not. I'm pretty sure I won't lose any sleep over it no matter whether we're liked or not.

---

Well, I'm glad you're happy with years of belligerent foreign policy, and with the typical view abroad of the equally bellicose, poorly-educated American, ignorant of goings-on outside their own country's borders. Easy stereotypes, yes, but not without a grain of truth in them, and neither exactly something of which to be proud. If anyone is in any doubt as to why outsiders seek to tell you how we feel you should live your lives in terms of gun ownership, this impression of Americans is directly relevant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starter

True, but failure to know and understand history leads to many missteps, both in a micro and macro sense.

---

There is a difference between knowing and understanding history and allowing it to shape policy unnecessarily. And, surely, if one claims to 'understand history', one thing it tells you is that guns, in a practical sense, do not represent a 'force for good'?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BDunnell

While I can well understand why shooting is an enjoyable activity for those who practice it, I am delighted that none of my day has been spent doing anything connected with protecting my own safety.

---

That thought makes me sad for you. I sincerely hope you have no friends or family that would ever have to depend on you for protection.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BDunnell

Why can't I see any of this? Because nothing anyone has said will ever change my view of guns.

---

That's fine and dandy. Now tell me why you must continually spout your "morally superior" attitude as if we Americans must somehow see that as the right answer for us? Clearly we do not, as evidenced by the many pages on this thread, the thousands of others on other similar topics, and the 200+ years of your detested "gun culture".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BDunnell

And because, when all is said and done, it is very easy for many a European to feel a sense of moral superiority over many a gun-toting American, a breed most vividly represented by the likes of anthonyvop, someone with whom any right-minded person ought almost always to find themselves in disagreement.

---

Why do you feel a sense of moral superiority? Isn't that exactly what you always claim makes the "typical right-wing American" so distasteful in your mind? Remind me again why you are trying to force us (sure you'll say suggest) to legislate your morals? Why can't you just let us live the way we feel is right for us?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BDunnell

As for the last two sentences of the quote above, you seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that I have some sort of authority over you, when all I'm doing is voicing an opinion with which you happen to disagree. This is not a case of 'forcing my morals on you'. It's merely a suggestion that lives might better be lived without guns.

---

It sure is forcing your morals on us (at least in the internet forum sense). 48+ pages of mostly you belaboring the point that if you had your way, you would outlaw all guns. For you to not be forcing your morals on us, you would simply say something to the effect of "What a horrible tragedy, my thoughts and prayers go out to the families of the victims. I wish these type of things wouldn't happen again", and leave it at that.

Thank God you do not have any authority over us.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BDunnell

Well, I'm glad you're happy with years of belligerent foreign policy, and with the typical view abroad of the equally bellicose, poorly-educated American, ignorant of goings-on outside their own country's borders. Easy stereotypes, yes, but not without a grain of truth in them, and neither exactly something of which to be proud. If anyone is in any doubt as to why outsiders seek to tell you how we feel you should live your lives in terms of gun ownership, this impression of Americans is directly relevant.

---

And you have done nothing to dispel the stereotype of the typical snobbish, self-centered, pseudo-intellectual European that looks down their nose at anything American.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BDunnell

There is a difference between knowing and understanding history and allowing it to shape policy unnecessarily. And, surely, if one claims to 'understand history', one thing it tells you is that guns, in a practical sense, do not represent a 'force for good'?

---

Do I really need to start posting stories again? For every tragedy of a mass shooting there are probably hundreds of stories about a person or family saving themselves and their property from violent criminals by using a gun. How is that not a "force for good"?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starter

Thank you. I'll buy that. We'll be able to pull all our troops and aid programs home and save a whole bunch of tax money.

---

...and let all that lovely ME oil be controlled by the Russian mafia and admit that the 'War on Terror' is nothing more than the sham its opponents have claimed all along!! You Yanks and your obsession with tax :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

I was referring to the insurrections which followed the rather heavy handed rule of the Empire.

---

The Mau Mau 'rebellion' was hardly a coherent independence movement and the 'unrest' in India was nothing like an insurrection. (Though it may have turned into that had Mountbatten been less pragmatic)

Quote:

---

You should have done that, as your factories didn't "cotton" to the idea of paying more for raw materials. Or was it your fondness, as a nation, for our home grown drug tobacco?

---

Actually it was the first example of the US chucking its weight around. Seward implying that the US would support Scots and Irish independence movements if the UK showed any support for the Confederacy. As to the second point, it was more a fondness for US grain, without which the UK would have experienced a famine, that mitigated against Confederacy support. Still at least Lincoln had the good sense to resolve the Trent affair sensibly!

Quote:

---

It's our entrepreneurial spirit. Invest in something now for huge returns later. ;)

---

Britain's example has served as a warning to other countries ever since:
UK "As you're now in it with us and we've maintained opposition in Asia and Europe for 3 years how about some help"
US " Sure, that'll cost you all UK business assets and patents in the US and your gold reserves"
UK " Err, thanks (pause to count fingers after shaking hands)"

Anyway as this is not a thread on UK-US foreign relations I'll not bandy words further sirrah.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mintexmemory

You Yanks and your obsession with tax :rolleyes:

---

Yeah, we are obsessed with individuals keeping their hard earned money, providing for ourselves and own, and not being endlessly taxed by an overly intrusive government, onlt to see those taxes wasted on supporting corrupt regimes, unpopular and unnecessary foreign wars and wasteful dysfucntional domestic programs for the unmotivated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chuck34

And you have done nothing to dispel the stereotype of the typical snobbish, self-centered, pseudo-intellectual European that looks down their nose at anything American.

---

Oh, spare us the victim mentality. In no way do I look down my nose at 'anything American' — rather, I look down my nose at certain attitudes typical of a particular section of the American populace, just as I do certain attitudes typical of a particular section of the British populace. And is there nothing in your eyes between 'ignorant' and 'pseudo-intellectual'?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chuck34

Do I really need to start posting stories again? For every tragedy of a mass shooting there are probably hundreds of stories about a person or family saving themselves and their property from violent criminals by using a gun. How is that not a "force for good"?

---

Strange we don't need them, then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by anthonyvop

That thought makes me sad for you. I sincerely hope you have no friends or family that would ever have to depend on you for protection.

---

Makes you sad for me? Ought you not to be happy that I don't feel the need to, or are you really so desperate to feel insecure?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chuck34

Why do you feel a sense of moral superiority?

---

To be honest, it's not hard to feel a sense of moral superiority over a gun-loving American.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chuck34

Remind me again why you are trying to force us (sure you'll say suggest) to legislate your morals? Why can't you just let us live the way we feel is right for us?

---

Again, I say that all I'm doing is offering an opinion. If I had any sort of legislative power over you, you'd have a point, but I don't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chuck34

For you to not be forcing your morals on us, you would simply say something to the effect of "What a horrible tragedy, my thoughts and prayers go out to the families of the victims. I wish these type of things wouldn't happen again", and leave it at that.

---

Rubbish. Offering an opinion is not 'forcing your morals' on someone. I don't feel like you're forcing your morals on me, for example.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BDunnell

For an American to be critical of others merely for making suggestions relating to domestic matters will always bring about accusations of hypocrisy given the recent record of your country under successive administrations of both colours.

Any perceptive citizen or commentator ought always to consider, rather than reject out of hand on grounds of tradition, examples of policy from elsewhere.

---

Those are interesting words. I believe you should say them again, loudly and with unwavering gaze -- as you stand in front of a mirror.