Seb Loeb quits. This time for good, probably - Interview Lionel Robert - Paris Match -> http://www.parismatch.com/People-Mat...quille-213131/
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Seb Loeb quits. This time for good, probably - Interview Lionel Robert - Paris Match -> http://www.parismatch.com/People-Mat...quille-213131/
Ah, did you read the posts just above yours on this thread? ↑Quote:
Originally Posted by danon
[quote="Seb Loeb"]Quote:
Originally Posted by noel157
PM: Si Sébastien Ogier, votre coéquipier chez Citroën et l’]
PM: If Sébastien Ogier, your teammate at Citroen and the man on the rise currently in the rally world, would beat you regularly, would it incite you to stop?
SL: Yes, I think. I would say to myself it is not worth to take inconsiderate risk to try to match him. But it's not him that will end my carrier. It's me who will take that decision, and it will be probably by the end of the 2011 Season.
He may still have a last exciting challenge : to win the 1st championship of the new WRC era.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
No problem, that's only if SO beats him on regular bases (every rally)..
Thanks Xavier.
I didn't understand this part:
PM - Etre gaucher et avoir 14 sur 10 aux deux yeux, ça aide ?
SL - Sûrement, car pour le reste... J’ai besoin de bouger, mais je déteste le jogging.
Left handed and 14 out of 10 with his eyes? What has jogging got to do with being left handed ?
Can you explain? Obviously something has been lost in translation. Thanks.
Surely, but for the rest... I need to move, but i hate jogging.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seb loeb
heHe is probably scared in case he starts being beaten..........after all he has'nt had much competition the last few years yet he is classed as the best driver ever..............lol lolQuote:
Originally Posted by OldF
Loeb scared of being beaten? Have You lived on the moon in last seven years?
indeed during his reign he stomped throughQuote:
Originally Posted by ste898
Sainz
Mcrae
Burns
Gronholm
Hirvonen
Latvala
Makinen
Solberg
Martin
Panizzi
and some others....so not much competition indeed....only the last 2 years he faced much inferior opponents..and treated them like dogs without owners....
He is the best ever and will be for some time.....
you are spot on, and people who knock him as he only drove Citroen, remember how much devolopement he did for Citroen, he is the man that worked with the team to make them what they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
I agree..
Dont get me wrong Loebs a great driver, but suggesting he stomped through that list of drivers. Stomped is a bit of a exaggeration.
Sure he got the best of Gronholm and Hirvonen fair and square.
But during Loebs tenure:
He beat an ageing Carlos Sainz who was in his winding down years? Was that the Carlos of the early 90s or 97-98?
Colin Mcrae who had one year with a Citroen team he struggled to fit in to. Then two rallys for Skoda.
Burns who was up against Loeb for one year before his illness.
Makinen who was winding down things. Not the Tommi we saw from 1996-1999.
Panizzi? - Come on!
Petter had a good car for one, maybe two years (03-04) then the Subaru wilderness years. And now hes got a car with Citroen 'hand me down' bits on it.
You cant compare Loeb with Colin, Carlos and Tommi. They were from an era where the best drivers got the best drives. Not because your dad was Malcom Wilson or your Spanish investor put the money up.
Different cars, different eras. You cant compare Colin with Salonen or Toivanen. Nor Salonen with Timo Makinen.
Loebs a great, one of the best. But I just dont think you can say the greatest.
It probably wont happen. But to see him up against a Latvala with the 'Wilson shackles' released, or a Ogier in his prime. Now then rallying would be back!
for every win there are 100 excuses and for every loss a million.....
incompetence of the human race never fails to amaze me....
the fact that he managed to DOMINATE for almost decade shows he is the best ever..
you have 2 posts too many.
Everyones entitled to there opinion. I didn't realize i had to reach my 10,000 posts quota for my opinion to count. No need to start slagging someones viewpoint.
Welcome to the forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwitahi
Next year i think Ogier could end up champion, less tarmac events, so it should be great. Really depends on any mechanical issues with the DS3 and Focus
its not about post count..its about post intelligence....Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwitahi
to come in here and diminishing EVERY opponent Loeb has ever faced its just shows bias...
He is the greatest...either you don't want it....disagree with it....pose against t...or not.
I think he had some good points, and there`s always two ends on a stick. Loeb is the gratest, no competitiion there, but N.O.T must admit that he was very lucky to be in the right place in the right time.
Well, Loeb is ONE of the gratest, no doubt. But his superior is not bigger than the old drivers named from other eras. That´s also for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
And N.O.T you should win a great deal of respect if you talked more humble.
Wait, i just don't understand ... Loeb being lucky? Lucky for being the best driver that rallying has ever seen (by achievements)?
What about Mäkinen's 4 championships in a row? The field of top drivers was even narrower at his peak time. Somehow he was never so dominating as Loeb.
Or maybe Kankkunen was lucky cause he could beat other drivers 4 times?
C'mon guys, Loeb has destroyed every opponent by a margin. Drivers have come and gone but he has been better than the rest by huge difference. Some say it's the car, some say it's the opponents - we never know because he has destroyed every driver there is.
If you think that being lucky is to have that kind of talent, then YES, i agree with you. Loeb is the best driver in rallying EVER! If you do not believe it, then look at the numbers. Times change, cars change, rallys change, drivers change, but nobody in rallying history has been so dominant.
that quite an aggressive response, Kiwitahi was only expressing his opinion. plus he is new to the forums, and is a fan of rallying, so I really think you should try and be less rude in your posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
I do think you might be being a bit harsh on Tommi there. Colin in the Subaru, Carlos and Didier in the Corollas and Burns, Eriksson or Kankkunen sure would of scared me more than Mikko and co.
Its not luck that hes a champion. Its not luck that he never ever makes a mistake while at the same time setting fastest times. No ones downplaying what Sebastian has done or trying to upset the Loeb fanclub. Records wise he is the most successful.
I just don't like comparing statistics across generations. Theres too many complications.
I'm not Loeb fan by any means, but somehow somebody seems to forget all the record he has broken over the past 9-10 years. I'm just all down to numbers and they don't lie. Loeb is the best ever according to numbers (by a mile), we can all argue about who has the most talent which is more down to individual preferences and therefore irrelevant :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwitahi
I'll agree on your last sentence, too many complications for comparing different generations.
Shame, but this time i have to agree with N.O.T. about Loeb :)
About Tommi's titles, i can also put up a wordfight with you :) , this is my opinion (don't take it too seriously though cause everybody vcan find excuses):
Carlos - too unlucky, could've had at least 1-2 titles during that period
Colin - too unreliable, crashed a lot, otherwise phenomenon
Didier - was past his prime
Eriksson (???) - not a contender by any means, down to at least one level if we compare him with Tommi, Carlos, Colin, Juha...
Kankkunen - almost past his prime
Burns - was just a "schoolboy", his prime started during 1998
Loeb has been up against almost all of the mentioned drivers + Grönholm, Petter, Märtin, Panizzi (tarmac), Hirvonen, Latvala, Rovanperä, Galli and more.
You are right, there is really no other way to measure, but the results, everything else does not mean anything, because his job is to win, first Championships then rallies.Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
I do not see much news or rumours in the last coupe of posts, even more we had the same ""who is the greatest rallydriver"" discussion many times before. Go start up a new treat for this never ending discussion and leave this one for news and rumours.
thanks :)
Stoneacre Ford Rally Roadshow:
http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/y...d_rally_event/
http://www.m-sport.co.uk/index.php/n...rally-roadshow
The roadshow will be held at the Stoneacre Ford branch on Seamer Road in Scarborough (on Thursday 23 September and will run from 5:30 – 8:30pm).
Cali - how old are you. Where you just a playing kid when Makinen, Kankkunen, Burns where fighting?Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
You must have been because you just don´t seem to have all the facts. Makinen lucky? No. Sainz unlucky? Yes one time. Burns? - 0ne of the greatest. He was the best ever driver driving in fog. And was unlucky when he signed the frog team in 2002. And of course went ill and sadly died. He would have proved a lot if he´d lived on.
So Loeb who won most of his titles when all these master was gone is one of the best but please don´t give him the skies. He´s just one of them all!
Sorry, I'm old enough to remember even H.Toivonen driving though i was a kid back then. Like I said in my previous posts, you can find any excuses you want, but the number will speak for themselves. Maybe our kids will remember Mikko and JML as masters, generations will change but facts will remain the same :) Enough OT from me ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
It's quite pointless discussion. Talking about what would have been if... leads nowhere. In that point every possible statement has dozen adequate replies.
Just an example... What would be if Loeb stayed in gymnastics? Would we call after some time Latvala, Sordo or Hirvonen legends like Sainz, McRae or Burns? Most probably yes because they would have epic fights for titles. Unfortunately for them Loeb came in and gave others no chance.
Telling that he kept winning for almost a decade just because there weren't any drivers like in good old days is short-sighted. There is no reason why good drivers would have suddenly been missing in the world.
As some here already stated, what matters is facts and statistics. In achievements Loeb is by far the best driver ever. There's no discussion about that as it's simple fact. Alternative histories are good for movies but don't count in reality.
By the way a sentence saying that "the good old times will never return since present time is just messed-up" is as old as history of man kind, it was found written on five thousand years old ancient column :)
Point and statistics is true yes - for the number man. If you have a heart and been aware of the drivers thrue the centuries you will never say LOeb is the one and only. There are more drivers obviously.Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
Can this discussion be moved to a sepperated treath? This has nothing to do with news or rumours. Except the rumour that Loeb is supposed to be the better rally driver, but that rumour is not news, it is old news :)
:)
QUOTE=alleskids... This has nothing to do with news or rumours. Except the rumour (rumour?!) that Loeb is supposed to be the better rally driver, but that rumour (make your mind - rumour or news?!) is not news, it is old news (it's not news at all, it is eyes-popping fact!)Quote:
Originally Posted by alleskids
Ford and Citroën teams and WRC top drivers have sent a letter to FIA rally commission to show their concern towards proposed one minute interval. All top drivers are opposed to the new rule.
Letter was written by Jarmo Lehtinen who represents drivers in the safety commision. Lehtinen and Mikko Hirvonen pointed out several things that have been discussed in this forum as well about the one minute running interval: dust issue, competetive issue if car behind caught the car in front and also the safety issue in cases of going off.
Lehtinen, interviewed by Finnish news agency STT, said that after the heavy crash in Finland this year, his first recollections after the crash starts around the time Petter Solberg passed them - which was four minutes after the crash. In case of car stopping upside down in a stage in a place with only few or no spactators, one minute interval can prove unnecessarily dangerous.
STT also interviewed Rally Finland's clerk of the course Kai Tarkiainen who didn't want to take a stand to one way or another at this time. The new rule would leave it to organizers whether to run cars with one or two minute intervals. Tarkiainen said that the dust won't be an issue in Finland, but caughting the car in front could be, when the stage is long and fast and if drivers starting one after another compete in different experience levels.
STT's story here on MTV3's site. Google translate.
Why hasn't Lehtinen and others been concerned about this earlier? Two minutes interval has been only for top drivers, rest have had one minute intervals and I don't remember Lehtinen or any other top driver been vocal about the issue before....Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartusvuori
Excuses..
It is the same with gravel crews and many more things. They were so concerned how dangerous it would be without them, but the FIA asked how can all the non factory drivers survive without them and then the drivers accepted (only in tarmac rallies now gravel crews still allowed)Quote:
Originally Posted by DonJippo
In national championships there's no 2 minutes gap so that's not dangerous?!
In autosport printed magazine (dont know if its on the .com version)published in UK today there is a story that Dr Helmut Marko, Red Bull's driver consultant considers the Kimi / Rallying experiment a failure. All the publicity is negative from the crashes and Kimi's public attitude. David Evans' editorial comment is against this and says that you only need to see the crowd around the Kimi service area to disprove this theory. Kimi linked to Monster Ford with Ken Block in the same story.
Also rumors that Monster wants Kimi in a Mini.... sounds nice Kimi Mini :DQuote:
Originally Posted by MJW