Hamilton Stripped of Win - Official

Right, let me see... why do I ask the race director - who is not in charge of the decisions - if my driver has given up the position correctly (not once, but twice)? And why do I believe him if I know that it's not up to him to say that? And why, if I want my driver to win the championship, don't I tell him to calm down and not to take any risks just to pass Kimi at all cost (espcially when his direct contender is miles behind him)? And why do I feel aggrieved afterwards? And why am I so stupid?

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Originally Posted by HereIam

Right, let me see... why do I ask the race director - who is not in charge of the decisions - if my driver has given up the position correctly (not once, but twice)? And why do I believe him if I know that it's not up to him to say that? And why, if I want my driver to win the championship, don't I tell him to calm down and not to take any risks just to pass Kimi at all cost (espcially when his direct contender is miles behind him)? And why do I feel aggrieved afterwards? And why am I so stupid?

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I think you may have missed the idea of what racing is all about :D

Anyone that didn't enjoy that scap is no racing fan.

We're tired of seeing safe processions where nobody risks a pass. I applaud Lewis for what he did. It was great racing and that's what the rules should be there to promote.

For those of you obsessed with justifying the stewards and applauding their anal application of the rules, would you also be happy if they applied the rules against Kimi for his off track antics on lap 1 or his forcing Lewis off track?

No, I thought not.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

I think you may have missed the idea of what racing is all about :D

Anyone that didn't enjoy that scap is no racing fan.

We're tired of seeing safe processions where nobody risks a pass. I applaud Lewis for what he did. It was great racing and that's what the rules should be there to promote.

For those of you obsessed with justifying the stewards and applauding their anal application of the rules, would you also be happy if they applied the rules against Kimi for his off track antics on lap 1 or his forcing Lewis off track?

No, I thought not.

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I enjoyed the scrap very much, but Lewis will never be a world champion if he doesn't start using his brain... and BTW, Lewis never forced anybody off track? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Daniel

What a load of rubbish. If you serve the penalty at the next race then you send the message that drivers can just do this thing and come up with a good pit strategy for the next race and get away with it. If you penalise a driver for the current race then you should.

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Its not rubbish.

There comes a point when in-race penalties are not sufficient and may be unintentionally influenced by hindisight ie. would the stewards decision have been different if Hamilton had won by 26 seconds? No matter which way you look at it, in-race penalties after the chequered flag expose the stewards to accusations of race fixing or team bias and I don't think that the facility can be left as it is.

There are millions being wagered on every race and that money is traded in good faith. The terms of the sports betting market will read something like 'payouts will be based on the official FIA result'. When a decision is made that directly affects the result of a race, and it becomes protracted legally, it could mean that those millions are tied up in limbo until the FIA result is confirmed. This is a ridiculous situation and one that will only change through recognising the sport's shortcomings and fixing them.

If too many decisions like this occur then we could see a situation where betting markets stop recognising the FIA result and settle in favour of a driver or team that is contrary to the FIA view of its own competition. Would we then have a betting market endorsed drivers champion and an FIA endorsed drivers champion?

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Ferrari were not beaten on the day. Ferrari played by the rules on that day and finished 2nd to a driver who was deemed to have gained an advantage by cuttin the chicane and they were then given the win. Ferrari or Massa giving back trophies would be hilariously silly.

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Ferrari WERE beaten on the day as the only driver that had any legitimate claim on the race was Raikonnen and he kissed a wall.

I think that Massa swapping trophies with Hamilton would be a very sporting gesture and far from silly as you put it. Massa and Hamilton are hopefully destined to be one of those great rivalries that we see in F1 from time to time. With all the other non-racing BS that goes on it would be good to see something positive in amongst the dross. As a citizen of a great cricketing nation I'm sure you can appreciate that. ;)

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If there is any natural justice eh? You totally miss the point that the article makes in regards to natural justice my friend. Natural justice doesn't take into account the rules and as they say rules are rules and must be adhered to.

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Huh? Natural justice is sans rules or other influences. That's what makes it natural.

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Originally Posted by HereIam

I enjoyed the scrap very much, but Lewis will never be a world champion if he doesn't start using his brain... and BTW, Lewis never forced anybody off track? :rolleyes:

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Don't waste your time with that. This thread is not about logic and rules it's about winning. So any mean to achieve that is justified. I kind of like that, if it were to go both ways. But it does not. It only goes one way. In McLarea and Hamilton's favor and therefore unacceptable. So is the arguing end in sight? Not even close.

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Originally Posted by Tonieke

watch it Whyzars....views on things other than what certain people on here think are not tolerated...before you know....they will call on people to ignore you....or what you say or think is rubbish..a term I rather find disrespectfull.....

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Whyzars by name, Whyzars by nature so I'm really not too worried.

I don't think the few times that I've posted over the years have caused too much grief to anyone. If people choose to ignore me then that is a pity because they miss out on my unique insight. :)

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Originally Posted by Whyzars

There comes a point when in-race penalties are not sufficient and may be unintentionally influenced by hindisight ie. would the stewards decision have been different if Hamilton had won by 26 seconds?

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I don't think so, the stewards imposed the penalty that is prescribed in the sporting regulations.

If Hamilton would have won by 25.1 seconds than he would have still been the winner of the race after the 25 seconds penalty was given.

Here is what a group of HIGHLY specialized and F1 experts said about the Spa incident. Of course McLaren and Ferrari fans (and everybody else of course) can say whatever they want but we all have to have the honesty and modesty to admit our limitations and to give credit to what the professionals who live - not just talk - F1 every day have to say:http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/moto...ne/7611152.stm
Read it. You might learn something.

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Originally Posted by HereIam

Right, let me see... why do I ask the race director - who is not in charge of the decisions - if my driver has given up the position correctly (not once, but twice)? And why do I believe him if I know that it's not up to him to say that? And why, if I want my driver to win the championship, don't I tell him to calm down and not to take any risks just to pass Kimi at all cost (espcially when his direct contender is miles behind him)? And why do I feel aggrieved afterwards? And why am I so stupid?

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I am very stupid too. I guess it's contagious :) :)

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Originally Posted by ioan

I don't think so, the stewards imposed the penalty that is prescribed in the sporting regulations.

If Hamilton would have won by 25.1 seconds than he would have still been the winner of the race after the 25 seconds penalty was given.

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Exactly right, or they might also have said to themselves "What's the point." and be done with it, maybe even try to find Hamilton guilty of a slightly different offence that would provide a penalty at the next race.

The stewards imposed a penalty that had an effect on the result whilst presumably being aware of the impact of imposing it. It is a very difficult position to put the stewards in and must be addressed at some point. I think the only reason it hasn't come to light prior to this incident is that normally the leading cars are separated by greater distances at the end of a race and are trying to preserve engines and maintain their car etc..

I think I've seen a third of a race go by at times before stewards hand down a decision on drive-through's and stop-go's and that is just too long in my opinion - especially when we consider that the relevance of the penalty changes the greater the time away from the incident ie. If someone jumps the start and they are served a stop-go on the 10th lap that is a far different impact then if it was served on the 4th lap.

In my opinion, if steward's can't make a decision within 10 minutes of an incident then any penalty they hand down should probably be served at the next race.