Hamilton Stripped of Win - Official

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Originally Posted by tamburello

The teams have not always directed communication with the Race Director with regards to incidents that the Stewards look into.

The Stewards are well above the Race Director when it comes to deciding if they are going to investigate an incident and do not need the Race Director to forward it to them. They can decide to investigate if the matter is referred or not.

In laymans terms, the Stewards are the referee, the Race Director merely a Linesman.

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Actually, the Director referrs or the Stewards inform the director that they will investigare.

Usually, it is the former.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Actually, the Director referrs or the Stewards inform the director that they will investigare.

Usually, it is the former.

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Have you any evidence that the stewards didn't refer the matter to Charlie? Because I remember that it was shown that Lewis was being investigated during the race.....

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

It was after the race that Charlie referred it to the Stewards.

Those are the facts. Can we stick to them and not opinion and what you think should have happened.

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Originally Posted by tamburello

Do you have a link for that?

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I found the official release....

"To: The team manager, Vodafone McLaren Mercedes

The stewards, having received a report from the Race Director and having met with the drivers and team managers involved, have considered the following matter, determine a breach of the regulations has been committed by the competitor and impose the penalty referred to."

That doesn't say that Whiting "referred" it to the Stewards, merely that he gave them "a report".

A report is often requested. If the official release stated it was "reported by Charlie Whiting", then what you claim is true.

But it doesn't, so what you claim isn't fact at all.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

*sigh*

yeah guys can we stick to knock on's version of the truth and his assumptions rather than what we see as the facts and what we see as logical? :p

From what I can remember the issue of Lewis cutting the chicane was shown as being investigated by the stewards BEFORE the end of the race. So please can we stick to the facts old bean?

Like I said the race director is not responsible for the judgement so why ask him? When this sort of thing happens the drivers needs to concede the advantage quickly so as to avoid being penalised and not when the team has done the wrong thing and gone chatting to the person who isn't even in charge of making the decision to see if it's OK.

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Daniel, if you disagree with the facts, they can easily be referenced.

As for whether this was referred before the end of the race, I don't remember seeing it.

However, I also cannot remember where I saw that Charlie referred it after the race. It will come up in the appeal though.

Did it come up on screen before the end of the race as if it was being investigated, it should do.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Actually, the Director referrs or the Stewards inform the director that they will investigare.

Usually, it is the former.

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Which they did.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Daniel, if you disagree with the facts, they can easily be referenced.

As for whether this was referred before the end of the race, I don't remember seeing it.

However, I also cannot remember where I saw that Charlie referred it after the race. It will come up in the appeal though.

Did it come up on screen before the end of the race as if it was being investigated, it should do.

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From what I can remember it did. Sadly the Sky+ recording screwed up :p

I'll be honest and say I'm not 100 sure but neither are you so no one has the facts now do they? :p

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Originally Posted by tamburello

I found the official release....

"To: The team manager, Vodafone McLaren Mercedes

The stewards, having received a report from the Race Director and having met with the drivers and team managers involved, have considered the following matter, determine a breach of the regulations has been committed by the competitor and impose the penalty referred to."

That doesn't say that Whiting "referred" it to the Stewards, merely that he gave them "a report".

A report is often requested. If the official release stated it was "reported by Charlie Whiting", then what you claim is true.

But it doesn't, so what you claim isn't fact at all.

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A race report is always submitted.

I will have a little dig around and try and find where it was that said CW referred it.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

However, I also cannot remember where I saw that Charlie referred it after the race. It will come up in the appeal though.

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You mean you hope it does?

Until it does, sorry, but it isn't as factual as you claim.

There is this report from the Guardian - "The race director, Charlie Whiting, had reported Hamilton to the three stewards employed by the FIA", (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008...d=networkfront) but since it isn't citing an official FIA release as its source, it doesn't make it a fact.

After all, Mosley has already showed that Newspapers don't always use reliable sources, would you not agree?

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Originally Posted by tamburello

You mean you hope it does?

Until it does, sorry, but it isn't as factual as you claim.

There is this report from the Guardian - "The race director, Charlie Whiting, had reported Hamilton to the three stewards employed by the FIA", (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008...d=networkfront) but since it isn't citing an official FIA release as its source, it doesn't make it a fact.

After all, Mosley has already showed that Newspapers don't always use reliable sources, would you not agree?

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Well, seeing as the FIA have been like a closed shop regarding all this, then you will never accept anything.

So, whatever you want to believe is up to you.

The Swedish commentators said the incident between Lewis and Kimi would be investigated after the race, before the race was finished. I am also quite sure I saw one of those on-screen information things.