Sounds familiar; continued, and maybe improved support, but not the 'kitchen sink'. If they require any pay drivers, then it's not a full factory effort! What will it take for them to fully back M-Sport??
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Sounds familiar; continued, and maybe improved support, but not the 'kitchen sink'. If they require any pay drivers, then it's not a full factory effort! What will it take for them to fully back M-Sport??
Yep. Plus none of the top 4 drivers would've been able to test the Ford until December, whereas Tanak/ Neuville/ Evans/ (maybe) Ogier will be testing the Hyundai and Toyota throughout the rest of this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
That's why I can't understand Malcolm didnt sign up a proven driver this year like Lappi/ mikkelsen etc to provide a benchmark for Fourmaux/ Greensmith, and also to develop the 22 car so they have a better driver ready to hit the ground running at the start of next year.
I wonder how much smoke and mirrors there'll be, with what could look like extra financial support from Ford actually being M-Sport just being in a better financial position itself this year, with the rebound in sales, service and support to the Rally 2, 3 and 4 categories.
This year I can partly understand it since it's last year of the current car and specially at start of the season it wasn't clear how much of MSport business (other rally classes) will run.
It cost them any chance of getting the top 4 ( personally I was really expecting Tanak to go there).
But if it goes again like this lineup next year, it sounds like another season with 2 teams and "also participated".
I totally don't agree with what for example AntiiL says...that if you can't get "top 4"/championship challenger it doesn't matter who you get.
2019/2020 vs 2021 shows this. 2019 they had Evans who sometimes could fight for wins (Corsica/GB), 2020 Lappi did that in Monza. 2021... nothing, not a single rally with real podium chance.
As mentioned before until 2020 Evans was a perfect example of "2nd best" that never would be able to fight for championship. But he was still a WRC winner with numerous podium finishes, not someone that never was near podium and is doing one of his first WRC rallies.
Been reported on here before, but here's an article.
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/m-spo...ne-up-in-2022/
Don't like the sound of that to be honest, Fourmaux may be a future star (probably at another team like Neuville, Tanak and Evans before him) and Greensmith has improved but still off the pace, Suninen is still very inconsistent... To not have at least one experienced driver doesn't look good. They can do the PR talk as much as they want, the fact that they are barely doing any pre-event testing is the biggest "crime" against their performance in my opinion, no matter how fast the car is next year if they continue like this they can only hope for some out of the ordinary rallies to get some surprise results.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
Based on Millener's recent comments, I was right.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
There's no marketing value in "sometimes fighting for wins". There might be some in winning single rallies, if championship is not possible. Otherwise you're as good with someone who just brings budget.
Just to clarify, this is not my personal opinion, I would want to see drivers who can actually drive at M-Sport, but I'm trying to think from the position of M-Sport. It's raw business for them.
But that's a huge difference! Winning single rallies or even getting on podiums vs 5th+ in case enough people retire.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
What really made me smile in Milleners comments:
(talking about current lineup):
“But we need to see speed and consistency and development, and I think they’re all doing that in their own separate ways.”
Totally lines up with what he said about Suninen after Sardinia.
I think (i) Millener is not in a rush, now haat other teams have lockep up their drivers. Only the half Toyota seat is available and any driver would probably prefer to get this one than opne at MSport, considering that Ogier will slow down even further or maybe call it quits after 2022 ... So in essence, all the remaining drivers will be begging for the +MSport seat(s) come december, so no rush ...
On another topic, I am curious of what Latvala will do, his heart probably calling for a (fast) fellow finn (Lappi, Sunninen) while his brain may have him lean towards a Mr.consistency fro the manufacturers champiosnhip, aka Sordo, Ostberg, Mikkelsen ... (Ogier being part of both categories as we know)
Lappi makes sense for Toyota having already been there, plus the events like Sweden/ Estonia/ Finland (if it's on the 22 calendar) will be events Ogier will not do (and fast rallies are some of Lappi's strongest events). Sordo makes no sense for this reason. Breen could be a decent option too, if Hyundai go with a Sordo/ Solberg car share.
I can only assume David Evans lurks at the forum :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
It's quite normal that Dirtfish writes on same topic we talk about a few days beforehand. I'd say it's a combination of reading this and us typically talking about the most pressing topics.
Breen could indeed become available since Solberg is good on same type of events. At the same time he is more risky choice than Lappi or Mikkelsen since he has never really had good result on other types of rallies and almost never drives them either (at least in WRC). Most importantly Malcolm never really seemed interested in him in any way. But it's hard to read Malcolm.
What kind of surprised me is that Dirtfish didn't even mention Gryazin.
Fourmaux+Lappi/Mikkelsen + Gryazin looks interesting. Malcolms authority might teach him to stay on the road and he has some money. But Fourmaux+Gryazin+Greensmith on the other hand might be both expensive and very unstable on results.
At least David Evans also added some history and context of their previous drivers and the one-off outlay on Ogier when he became available.
But now there's no guaranteed rally winner available and their budget is tight after the loss of R5 car sales in the pandemic. Therefore it seems clear that any 2022 driver must bring some sponsor support.
he has thick skin if he doesQuote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Bottas could be a decent option for M-Sport.
Yeah no. The car is already bad enough, lets atleast have proper rallydrivers.
doesn't matter who drives if the engine overheats after 3 stages
As a 2nd driver why not lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Got Mail
Greensmith seems to be quite optimistic about season 2022:
“My immediate focus is on continuing the upward trajectory – I need to maintain this over the next three or four rallies and we’ll see where we are. If we continue like this, I don’t see why we shouldn’t be in a World Rally Car on merit. I just need to focus on keeping these improvements, take a few stage wins and then, by the end of the year, we could be fighting for a podium.”
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/green...-for-big-push/
Well he's been reading Colin Clark's ratings too much I guess :D based on that alone he's championship contenderQuote:
Originally Posted by trykmann
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Ammu pole niimoodi naernud :DQuote:
Originally Posted by cali
That was a good one!
Is Suninen doing enough ?
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/is-su...-m-sport-seat/
Fourmaux staking a claim for the second WRC seat alongside Fergus in Finland
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/fourm...lly-car-drive/
He definitely needs to find a big performance from somewhere, the pressure is mounting and opportunities diminishing.
Millener's comments are interesting, with a different tone than David Evans suggests...Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
“It’s fair to say this wasn’t the result or performance we were hoping for after Safari Rally Kenya,” said Millener, “Before the start we would have been happy to have one car in the top six, but we all know it could have been better.”
“It was frustrating for Gus and Teemu that engine-related issues meant they weren’t part of the fight,” added Millener. “Despite the setbacks, they both gave everything and got lots of important kilometres under their belts, which is what we always ask of them.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
;)
It's strange that Breen hasnt ever been strongly linked to M-Sport despite his very early days with their Fiesta ST & S2000.
I spoke to him at Rally GB in 2015 and said I hope you get a drive next year and hopefully in a Ford and he looked totally blank like it was something offensive. I wonder did he have a falling out with them ?
Breen makes sense for Msport. He deserves a full season, in fact two full years before we can properly judge where his peak actually is. He's also a driver who doesn't have too many major shunts, which is a good reflection on his mentality because he has effectively been driving for his career every time he does a rally in the i20.
If I was Malcolm, I would give Breen and Fourmaux 2yr contracts. Give them the security and the confidence needed (look what happened to Evans after Toyota secured his future), and it also protects Msport from losing either for free at the end of next year if they have a very impressive year.
Fourmaux brings backing too and Breen wouldn't be too expensive (especially compared to the salary one of the big 4 wouldve wanted), so it could hopefully mean they might be able to run a proper 3rd driver ( rather than just Greensmith fully paying for a 3rd car, instead of a 4th car).
I think Fiesta was lagging behind in development by that time, similarly to current one now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Difficult to say if Rallye-Magazin has just read discussions from this forum or David Evans's speculations or if they actually know something?
Having Breen as main driver and then shuffling Suninen, Fourmaux and Greensmith in the two remaining cars? Or Greensmith driving "fourth car" with own livery? Or Suninen dropping out to WRC2? What does Mikkelsen do?
So: Mikkelsen Breen Formaux full time; Greensmith payed 4th car (does he still have budget behind him?); Suninen to WRC2 ? That would not look bad at all.
Apparently, Breen is close to deal with M-sport 2022.
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I find it very strange anyone would sign Breen before he gets a decent result on anything else than a fast loose surface rally. So earliest after Ypres.
But stranger things have happened.
I think Breen has showed most of all drivers this season that would deserve a full time WRC drive.
I would choose him or Lappi (giving that the big 4 are not available)
I wonder what makes you think that (deserving full time WRC drive).Quote:
Originally Posted by dupanton
In Citroen in the past he had great results on some fast loose surface rallies, meh everywhere else. Especially on tarmac (when C3 was good on it 2017-2018), it was kind of strange.
In i20 he has good results on fast loose surface rallies, and bad result on the only different round he has driven so far (Croatia). Latest he confirmed this in Estonia by doing well on fast gravel rally where he did well last year.
So I don't get the implication "good on fast loose surface rallies" => should be good elsewhere.
Comparatively few people will automatically expect Sordo to be great in Finland/Estonia, based on him being good in Sardinia or Portugal. The difference is that in Sordo's case he has driven those other rallies lots of times, while Breen has driven other types of rallies only few times. Therefore Ypres should be very important for him, specially since he has driven a test rally in Belgia in the WRC car last year and also did drive there earlier in R5 Polo.
----------------
Anyway it seems this "Breen to MSport" is based on people asking Malcolm if he is of interest and Malcolm saying he is one of the drivers on a list they consider. That is perfectly normal at this stage and correct line of thinking by MSport. Actually signing Breen at this very point would have been something else and a bit weird, which is why I reacted to it.
If he does very well in Ypres (faster than any of the other 5 Toyota/Hyundai), MSport might considered signing him "before" Hyundai to "steal" him. Interestingly Solbergs and maybe even Huttunens performance will also play a role.
If Solberg does very well Hyundai will be less interested in Breen (so MSport doesn't need to hurry to sign him).
If Solberg does bad and Breen bad there is no hurry for anyone.
MSport said at one point they would want to get a driver early to drive the car and adapt as soon as possible. But the only driver really available for that is Lappi, and it seems he is signed at Toyota (most notably cause he didn't come to Estonia). Suninen is off course also available, but MSport interest in him has faded. Breen is earliest available after Finland (so mid October), maybe later depending on how his contract with Hyundai goes. After Safari and UK+Chile cancellations Mikkelsen isn't available before end of October or later either.
As a side note there are news saying MSport wants to run 2 cars next year........so in the end it might end with Fourmaux+Greensmith only.
I agree that Breen has been a bit disappointing on other WRC drives than in Finland, Sweden and Estonia. And in three last years, he hasn't had many starts elsewhere. Wales and Croatia were not really impressive.
If you look at Breen's stage win list, his only stage wins in Germany are from exceptionally fast stages and same thing for one Australia and one Portugal stage win. He only has two stage wins from technical gravel stages, one in Portugal and one in Turkey. His best result in a technical gravel rally is 5th in Portugal 2017 and best tarmac result 5th (many rallies)
I don't say Breen would be a championship contender.
I see him as "best of the rest", capable of winning rallies and finishing high(ish) in other rounds.
If you combine him with Fourmaux who will be getting quicker on Tarmac, his prefered surface, I think that is the best 2 car line-up in middle long term they can go for.
Think they really need to change test/development drivers , Matt Wilson regularly in cars but was over a sec a km slower on the british championship round could only manage 5th overall
Hearing a lot of lads leaving msport at the minute not enjoying the working conditions , got rid of 90 people and expect the people left to do the same work load , as rumour is they are busier than pre covid