Abbring's time in the Peugeot will be of some value too I guess. Everything he has seen there, should not be copied to the i20. :D
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Abbring's time in the Peugeot will be of some value too I guess. Everything he has seen there, should not be copied to the i20. :D
Is it possible that they will cram 9/12/18 months' worth of test outings into 6 months?
from what we have seen from previous projects,no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack4688`
It is not just the testing miles. There needs to be time to understand any problems and improve the car and deal with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack4688`
It does seem very opportunistic. Besides the R5, they will need to develop the '17 WRC and keep developing the '16 WRC.
Realistically I can only see the car in Ypres being the 0 car like both the Fiesta and 208 back in 2013.
While the Hyundai i20 R5 begins to take its first steps and Citroen / Peugeot, like M-Sport prepares his great evolution to stand up to Skoda Fabia R5, another brand is planning the arrival of their own version of which is currently the second category of the World Rally Championship (first in cases such as the ERC and various National Championships). Toyota finally seems determined and after delaying the development of a version of the Yaris R5 repeatedly seems to already have date for its debut: 2018.
Until then there is much work ahead for the men of Tommi Mäkinen, who should be responsible for the development of the first World Rally Car version for the upcoming season. It is not excluded that TMG help in this project to make a R5 intended customers, nor that Mäkinen decide foguear the Japanese pilots, Hiroki Arai (son of Toshihiro) and Takamoto Katsuta, which has under its wing in the development of this new Toyota Yaris.
As soon as we have time to focus on that will. We are studying different areas anymore. We talked to people from TMG and of course with Toyota Motor Company for its Merca and the overall situation. This definitely will not be for 2017, expected to be 2018. If we could start now, we might have a car ready for 2017, but I see no sense in bringing the car into production if not fast enough.
http://www.diariomotor.com/competici...objetivo-2018/
Gambling? Didn't Lemmy (R.I.P.) say that gambling was for fools? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/motor...des148708.html
It'll be always more than 6 moths. The news said they want to get it ready at the end of the summer (late September) and that their main aim is to get units available for 2017 costumers programs. Having these in mind, it seems reasonable to expect homologation to happen only at the end of the year, or even at the beginning of January.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack4688`
The joker's limitations gives manus greater responsibility to get things properly done, but R5 rules are stricter than WRC, with the use of control and even stock parts. Also, they can use the body shell/roll cage work from the WRC version and probably the R5 engine development is outsourced. 10 to 12 months can be enough to sort out a competitive car.
We all have in mind Skoda's long and great development work on the Fabia, but as far as I remember their testing calendar was also extended because of delays on the road model launch/start of production. That's not an issue for the i20.
I think Skoda were testing for about one and a half years in total.
I wonder whether the next iteration of the R5 rules will give an 'upgrade' in order to maintain the gap with the new 2017 World Rally Cars?
I think that is the point. The gap must be bigger and that is partially why WRC2017 will have new rules. Moreover you can´t make R5 faster with same price without reliability loss. Maybe better sound would be appreciated, but I don´t think producers would like it, because sound is also wasting of energy.
There is absolutely no need for more power in R5 cars. They are already around the level of first WRC cars in late 90'. And as Liposh said any further increase won't be for free.
Good thing: the 32 hp extra power that has the Ford Fiesta R5 Evo allows you to move from one end of 178 km / h to 189 km / h.
Iván Fernández @fernischumi
Buen dato: los 32 CV de potencia extra que tiene el Ford Fiesta R5 Evo le permite pasar de una punta de 178 km/h a 189 km/h. #WRC #ERC
I wonder what will be the technical updates of DS3&208 R5? I didnt have the press release yet about it..
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We have the power curve from M-Sport. Those +32 Hp is not at the peak power and therefore had no direct effect on top speed. That huge rise of power is around 4000 rpm only. The peak power grew around 7 Hp. Anyway M-Sport didn't use any joker for gearings and they have the same two top speed options as before. The longer gearbox existed since early 2015 I think but was rarely used due to already mentioned lack of torque. Therefore I would say it a bit different way. The stronger engine doesn't bring higher top speed itself but allows to use already existing long gearbox effectively.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Br21 may correct me if anything what I wrote is wrong :)
havent see the dynoplot,but if they have just 7 hp at high revs yes,would be difficult to raise the top speed by 11 km/h.
Here is the dyno from M-Sport:
http://www.autosport.cz/img/clanky/b...a57082d6da.jpg
Anyway the top speed isn't limited by the power but only by gearing as the top speed is always on rpm limiter (given by rules). Otherwise I managed to make over 190 km/h GPS even with 1.2TSI 63KW Rapid which I once got for a business trip ;)
Toyota will not start their R5 project until after their WRCar is launched according to eMotorsport.se
didn t know that from the rules the top speed must be on limiter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
So in this occasion yes not higher top speed with same gearing.Only faster to reach the top speed.
Mirek is right of course. Already with normal engine in some situations longer gearbox was not worse than shorter one, so now with stronger engine it should be main option.
Regarding the PSA cars update is expected in March and will cover most those known relability problems (cooling, etc) plus some suspension, engine, steering things. Also Fiesta should receive some suspension upgrade in March probably.
No, I may have written that in a confusing way. The top speed may be wherever on the curve but it can hardly happen that the power on rpm limiter is so small that it's can't be reached on top gear ;) What is given by the rules is rpm limiter at 7500 rpm.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
do You know why such rule exists?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Now I am confused. The original post made more sense to me, considering You meant by the power - bhp, but not torque and there is actually someone who really believes the top speed depends on the power?!?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Of course the top speed depends on the power if it's not limited by the gearing. Nearly every stock car under let's say 200 Hp is limited by power on it's top speed and You can reach higher speed driving downhill or with a wind from behind. Speaking about torque when considering top speed is very missleading and can be considered even irrelevant as torque values transform through gears while power not.
Torque is a lot harder to understand because there is no direct dependence between torque and performance. Without knowledge of the whole curve and the gearing You can't say anything about the car while the peak power says quite a lot. When driven on straight diesel car and petrol naturally aspirated car both with 200 Hp will accelerate same way (when they have same weight) while when You do the same comparison with diesel car with 300 Nm and petrol naturally aspirated car with 300 Nm the later would be a lot faster and most likely have even higher top speed. The reason is that it must have a lot higher power.
Most likely to keep reasonable durability and reliability. It's same for WRC cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
Yes I know at some point the power will have influence on the top speed, but that seems irrelevant with the current WRC/R5 cars considering the dyno curves and limited RPM to 7500. In my understanding power overcomes the friction forces of the tyres with road, various bearings and stuff, which increase as the speed also increase, while torque is more relevant to the traction, as on low speed and cornering, thus torque is irrelevant at these high speeds, and seems this engine is well optimised about these figures. Anyway diesel car with same power probably would accelerate faster at low RPM as it would have higher torque, but that's just for a short period of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Hmm interesting, In f1 there are no such restrictions I believe, at least while I was still following it, and that was long time ago. AFAIR back then Ford 8-cyl Ford engines reached the cosmic 18K RPM, now they could be above 20K, I'm not aware. But of course these are N/A engines, as turbo were forbidden soon after introduced in 70's. Were the same RPM restrictions applied also for the N/A S2000 cars?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Yes it exist in F1 as well, the last v8s were capped at 18k RPM and now the v6 turbos they are capped at 15k. Not sure about other motosportsQuote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
You don't have steel con rods and valves in F1. It's not allowed to use titanium in WRC/R5.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
You are right with WRC/R5 as the power is always enough to accelerate up to rpm limiter. The main contributor for top speed when limited by power is drag as it is a squared function of speed. Other contributors are very minor in comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
The example diesel/petrol car was of course simplified. Let's say to a situation when both use continuous variable transmission with which they operate all the time on peak power ;)
Nice!! But I hope that was at the Autobahn ;) ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Ja, natürlich, es war an A6 zwischen Tsechische Grenze und Nürnberg :p
Yes, it was on A6 between Czech border and Nürnberg.
I used to have a 1.2tsi 63kw Rapid, fairly sure it had a lot more than the quoted power and torque figures!
Warum nicht Nürburgring? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
2 Mitsubishis R5 in the first round of British championship:
http://rajdy.autoklub.pl/news/trzy-r...er-sport,65929
http://spencersport.co.uk/3-cars-for-brc/ - in english :)
and more info on Mitsubishi R5 http://spencersport.co.uk/mitsubishi-r5/technical/
wish that mitsubishi R5 work not stay at national work and get some support from Japan and get global.
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Unfortunately, Mitsubishi support seems unlikely at the moment, but I hope they might change their minds later.
japanese... never change their minds
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But the Brits are normally very good in persuading people, so lets see.Quote:
Originally Posted by TWRC
It might be that Mitsubishi would like to see some more results, and that it is fighting up there in the R5 crowd, before they give it their blessing.
It seems that Al Kuwari is the first one to destroy Fabia R5 bodyshell...