And you were right. Grzyb was 5th, over 2 minutes behind Kopecky. How did you know it? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by liposh
http://www.autoklub.pl/news/foto/201...618_68782h.jpg
Printable View
And you were right. Grzyb was 5th, over 2 minutes behind Kopecky. How did you know it? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by liposh
http://www.autoklub.pl/news/foto/201...618_68782h.jpg
Do You know the reason for these changes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
I have no other idea than performance.
What to say-thanks to Mirek for his report and congratulations to Kopecky.
Spectacular video from JNK with a lot of driving mistakes: https://youtu.be/BFwOCp7X2Wk
Mot every day is seen Porsche with tarmac spec on such bumpy roads. The performance @4:50 is unique:D. Night shots are amazing....Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
A spectacular off by Kopecký from first leg: http://www.mediasport.cz/rally/ceske...ardy/9130.html
Accident of Kopáček (no damage): http://www.mediasport.cz/rally/ceske...ardy/9135.html
Černý spinnng at the place where Odložilík went off: http://www.mediasport.cz/rally/ceske...ardy/9137.html
Two big moments in 20 seconds for Zpěvák: http://www.mediasport.cz/rally/ceske...ardy/9142.html
Růžička hitting a stump: http://www.mediasport.cz/rally/ceske...ardy/9147.html
Adolf off: http://www.mediasport.cz/rally/ceske...ardy/9144.html
wow Kopecky was very lucky to spin with such a speed.
Thanks for the CZ Gt rules Mirek. Apparently there's something wrong with my PM definitions as I can't send them.
Btw, what's your, and the other forum mates, estimation of a fairly dimensioned restrictor for a 3.8 911, having in mind that with 39 (FIA) or 42mm (RFEDA) they can’t match R5’s? Could 50mm be too large?
I don't think that it is possible to somehow match GT cars and R5. If GT's shall be competitive against R5 for example on our stages than the very same cars will be completely dominant in Spain as the roads are generally very different (and vice versa). Anyway 50 mm restrictor is nonsense. You have to consider that what matters about restrictor size is its area and that depends on diameter squared.
39 mm - 1194 mm2 - let's say 100%
42 mm - 1385 mm2 - 116%
50 mm - 1963 mm2 - 164%
As I said many times first of all I don't see any reason why to even try to push for GT cars when their manufacturers don't give a shit about rallying. For me it's complete nonsense to push for them against manufacturers who are actually active in rallying and who keep the sport going.
I welcome with open arms every possibility to make rally sport more exciting than it is now. It was great to see the Porsches when I was in Belgium a few years ago. It was great to see such drivers as Duez, Snijers, Van Parijs, Delecour or Dumas driving Porsches in WRC and ERC. And it is great to see the videos of Pech that you posted. The cars are beautiful and the engine sound is unforgettable. Would you prefer to see another boring group N Mitsubishi Lancer instead?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
On the flip side of the coin Mitsubishi are also not interested in rallying manufacturer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
For Your list I can add the German and Spanish (until this year) drivers with those cars. Not speaking of other more open classes in different parts of the world N5+ in Spain, Maxi rally class, NZ open class, etc, etc. All these add great variety to the sport and manufacturers are not interested in them as well.
You are right.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
I understand Your point of view but rallying like any other motorsport is primarily a business activity for the manufacturers. There is no point helping someone who doesn't contribute in any way at the expense of those who do. It's not fair after all. To allow them running? Why not but to allow them fighting with those who contribute? It's giving them promotion for free and in the same time making the traditional manufacturers angry. Why would anyone sane do that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
And I also said Pech will struggle with his Porsche much more than in previous rounds.How did I know that? I am simply fabulous. :) Sometimes it seems to me some people and especially Mirek are little bit underestimating me, which hurts because I respect him :D And now seriously: I know that region very well because I live there and I know a lot about rallying. Simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
How do You know that Pech struggled more? He had three punctures but also managed to be faster than R5 cars on some stages.
And here we go again. He had three punctures, so he struggled more. Why do You do this everytime? I say something and I am right because I had good info and it is not a coincidence, but you just have to argue with me whether first was chicken or egg.
Whatever floats Your boat.
of course they can compete. With RULES,as everybody last decades at rallies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Nobody said to dont compete.But not with 150bhp more.
Big restrictors are used as a BoP tool in several GT racing series; it’s a shame, and a waste for the sport, only allow Gt’s to rally when undermined by small restrictors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
About Porsche being uninterested in rally: for sure that’s the case in Stuttgart headquarters, but importers and dealers can see it differently. In Spain, Ares is backed by an official local Porsche Centre, like Vallejo and Fuster were in the past, and even the importer gives him some support.
But the main point, like Jarek and Stefan have mention, it’s not Porsche’s case; it’s the diversity of eligible cars in rally series. With the current FIA rules every driver or team has to buy a car from the official manus tuners, even on the lower classes! The problem is that some brands involved in rallying are no longer paying attention to privateers (take VW case) and the number of homologated cars under the R Group classes is ridiculously low.
So, if local ASN’s decide to spread rally car options for their drivers and teams, that’s quite encouraging and rally fans will certainly appreciate that diversity on the stages.
why the restrictors are ''small''?????Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
even with these ''small'' restrictors are more powerfull from r5 cars.
My photo gallery from XII. rally Hustopece: http://img.gg/T9s81jV
Honestly I don’t get why you’re still resuming these R5 vs GT on the 911’s max power. What about R5 rally purposed design, superior handling, 4wd transmission and turbo engine? They’re different concepts, each one has their advantages and weaknesses and it’s possible to make them rallying without undermine them.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
because this was the reason they won.Not from driving.As you see at Spain ,they are still faster at starights,but cant win,another car that dont follow fia rules.is that normal for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
all these you wrote about ''purposed design'' ''superior handling'' etc are inside the rules.Nobody of any r5 car choosed to have 150 bhp more than another r5 car.,nore fatter tyres.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
if they want to compete are welcome,but not to steal the glory from the players that follow the rules.
Really cant understand why you want to compete 911s with power advantage that they use at straights.Is this rallying?
whats the problem to compete with same weight/power as r5 cars? they still oversteer,there are sideways,and the engine sound is present.
Really cant find one reason why they have to compete with 150 bhp more,and still nobody has give me his opinion here after so many times we have discussed to death.
Ok dimviii, it’s pretty obvious we’ll never agree on this one. Just one question: have you ever seen one of these modern 911's driven by a top driver on a rally stage?
And what is rallying?Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
So it seems You believe Group B was a mistake? I still see people (including me more or less) are a bit of nostalgic of those times....Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
no because all cars were running under same rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
and some others are nostalgic about volvos and rwd escorts.So what?Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
i ve drive plenty of 911s,but no i dont have seen at rallies. But will not impress me a slower car at corners,that take advantage at straights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
try to find out.As you find,you will not ask for competitors with 150 bhp advantage at cars that are not suited for rallies.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
Really? Did they had any restrictors?Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
These are still rolling the rallies around Europe. The point is there is a place for every fan or whatsoever. Some prefer Porcshes, some prefer R2 & R1 and whatsoever.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
I thought I knew, but modern times are confusing me a lot. For sure any kind of restriction wasn't a concern in 1911.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
You’re luckier than me; I’ve only driven an old SC a couple of times (with the owner shouting to slow down) but since ’08 or ’09 I’ve been able to attend some of the Spanish champ rounds on the beautiful Galiza region and believe me, modern 911’s cars are great to watch on a rally and their top drivers are much more than “drag racers”.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
To be frank, the first time I was a bit shocked to see those bulky machines running on such narrow roads (there was also a 360 GT…) and the spectator’s reaction seemed a bit hysterical, but year after year one get to know what drivers really can take all from those magnificent cars and how entertaining they can be on a rally stage.
I won’t exaggerate like rallyes.net guys titled about last Spanish event “The Porsche’s have comeback; the spectacle has comeback”, because in every category there are great drivers delivering amazing performances (like in R2), but there’s no doubt Gt’s are a plus in tarmac rallys and their top drivers should be praised as all the others.
Videos don’t make justice, but take a look at Ares 911 (0:04 and 5:07) on this nice video from Bunnings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JqvrqEW12Q
I agree, You can see great driving in every category allowed. I also don't see a point arguing between (R)GT & R5 classes, these are just different classes in rally as any other, be it R(N) or not. If some category has its supporters, then why not? It just promotes rally as a motorsport, is it not?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
What kind of argument is that? All gr.B cars run under same rules. It doesn't matter what exactly was in that rules if those rules were same for all.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
Here we are arguaing that according to You or some other members it is unfair when R5 car run with huge 32 mm restrictor against poor GT cars whose tiny restrictor has only 42 mm diameter. How incredibly unfair from R5 cars to have as much as 58% of restrictor size of Spanish GT cars. According to Rally Power that is unfair as those Spanish GT cars can't compete with R5 cars.
And some prefer fair competition. Simple as that.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
How then You compare Lancia 037, AUDI Quattro and Peugeot 205. Which rules make them equal?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Don't be angry, I just point out every class has its supporters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
How fair is R1 vs R5 competition, are You serious?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Gr.B rules. All of those cars were built under SAME rules. Feel free to prove me wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
OK. Let's say I am a fan of R3 cars. Now tell me why I can't get 40 mm restrictor for my DS3 R3? I'm pretty sure I could defeat R5 cars on dry asphalt with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
Completely irrelevant and pointless example. Try harder.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
And what are the common rules that should make R5 and GT cars equal. Aren't these completely different classes (Which makes Gr. B the most free class ever made).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
That just points out classes difference, what of it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Oh yes it is relevant. I'm not fighting GT vs R5 war. It is just a simple example of different rally classes, may be little bit extreme, but still relevant to my posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
I won't continue this gymnastics You show here. You wrote a nonsense, I pointed it was nonsense. Period. Everyone can read the discussion. Don't try to twist it.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
Since when is any class allowed to have 100 Hp more than the top class? Show me any kind of motorsport where any private class is allowed 100 Hp more than the best works cars and where its fans still cry that it's not enough. This is exactly the case of GTs.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
No, it was irrelevant nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
It is You started this discussion, I already knew it is pointless, but here we are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Anyway I don't agree with Your points. You enjoy R5, I enjoy diversity, isn't it personal choice?