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So when they come down one at a time with paintball guns, they are being heavy handed? I think the guys beating the soldiers with iron bars and tossing them down an extra deck or two were the radicals..Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Israel would deserve full condemnation if they did what the North Koreans do, just torpedo the ship. Instead, they had a/c in the rooms they planned to hold anyone in if they captured anyone.
Sometimes a fiasco starts with the fanatics.....
This latest bit wont help Isreal, but as the facts come out, it is clear the people on the ship wanted something to happen and they provoked the soldiers. The blockade has been around for a while, and this a provocation to start something, and Israel, naively I say walked into it in a sense.
As for the Turk's, they know damned well Israel isn't the problem in the Middle East, and were allies with them for years until the current pro Muslim leaders came to power. This ship and its people shouldn't have 9 dead, but when the Israeli soldiers board the ship the way they did with PAINTBALL Guns...it was clear that this was NOT to be some human rights issue....but somehow things got out of hand...
According to the peace activists, the "iron bars" claimed by the Israelis were wooden sticks. You can't tell a difference between an iron bar and a wooden stick in an Israeli shot Youtube video. "Tossing soldiers down an extra deck or two" is also only an Israeli claim. Besides, those soldiers had no business to be on the ship anyway, so they can blame themselves if the peace activists defended themselves. And paintball guns don't kill at least ten people, so the soldiers had hard bullets as well. If there was an independent investigation, which there won't be, it would show that those people didn't die by paintball guns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
Stupidity has just rewards, and the activists got just rewards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
\Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
No business? International law allows naval vessels or units to inspect ships heading to lands with legal blockades. Careful now...
Your opinion is noted, but your proof is just your opinion or that who would oppose this no matter what. AS for them having real guns, well duuh...they did have those when their guys were getting beaten to a pulp. At some point, the gloves would come off. You cannot escape though the reality the people on board thought nothing of attacking these guys with clubs and sticks and bars so they didn't come down the rope with guns drawn and shooting.
AGain, if Israel is the evil entity you think they are, they just would have sunk the ship....I am still waiting your condemnation for sinking that South Korean frigate...or for the condemnation for the massacre of Muslims by radical groups in Pakistan...
The blockade of Gaza is not legal, it's a "medieval siege", like the UN called it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
So, why do Americans make such a big fuss over their own military deaths?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Did you post a condemnation somewhere? Well run for the hills! Mark's a North Korean sympathiser!!!!!!! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
You could say the same about the American military deaths.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Eki, Don't look at these videos if you want to continue thinking it's all lies. These soldiers were beaten half to death. The soldier thrown from the deck is a major and a squad leader in that force. He was stabbed in the abdomen and then thrown two stories. After that he just plucked the knife out and jumped into the water so they couldn't kill him. I want to know how you would react had you been beaten and stabbed by a mob like that. The soldiers were so unprepared for things to get so violent they only started defending themselves after eight of them were very close to being killed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
The videos Eki shouldn't see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buzOWKxN2co
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwbCt...eature=related
Not related to the topic, unless one is trolling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Only if one is a complete idiot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Was West Berlin under the control of a terrorist organization like Gaza is? I must have missed that in history class.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camelopard
The people within Gaza are not "surrounded by a brutal army" but surrounded by a hostile nation and under the control of two brutal armies who at various stages have also waged bloody battles within their own streets (Hamas and Fatah).
Actually, the ability to read and comprehend the specific authority of member nations outlined in the numerous cease fire agreements led me to that very simple conclusion. People that read between the lines might find another answer to the question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Your entire argument seems to be that since the Israelis shouldn't have been on the vessel, any actions regardless of nature were ok.
Based on that train of thought, Roamy can start identification of illegals in his area so a mob of US citizens can beat them down and stab them, then throw them off a small building or something. Would that be justified to you Eki?
Actually Air we just want them to stay at home and immigrate legally. George Bush asked for a worker card whereby Mexicans could come and go legally but NO we need their fcuking criminals and lame. Try to go work in Mexico and see how far your get. Why the double standard?? I don't have to do sh!t except support Joe Arpaio who is a "hitter" and just what arizona needs.Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
Are we talking about Roamy's neighborhood or international waters? On international waters, it's not justified in any way. If it's in Roamy's neighborhood, it's legally justified if local laws allow it, but not morally justified. In any case Roamy is morally justified to defend himself with necessary means if those illegals attack him or his house like the Israelis attacked the ship (which was comparable to Roamy's house and were turf of the activists). It would not have been justified for the activist to follow fleeing Israelis to the international waters, which they didn't because everything happened on THEIR ship that was sailing on INTERNATIONAL waters and NOT on ISRAELI waters.Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
I remember when Iran snatched some British soldiers they claimed were on Iranian waters and the Brits claimed they were on international waters. If we had it the Israeli way, that would be a moot point. It would be OK to snatch foreign nationals on international waters. Oh sorry, I forgot the Israeli way is that they can do whatever they want even if others couldn't.
The moral of the story is "Whatever floats your boat" But don't float it in my neighborhood if you don't have ID.
Now with respect to the embargo. Based on actions they have declared that they are under the "War" doctrine. This is what I understand. So I don't know the mile marker they took on the ship but the hard part is that if it is within the boundary of the country it is one thing if it is in international waters it is another and I will accept the fact that Israel right or wrong doesn't give a sh!t. What I think most of you fail to understand is that in the scheme of Nuclear power Israel ranks probably 2 or 3 which means they can do some major damage to the entire region. You guys want to play fcukaround with a power that will do you under. Do you think Lebanon or Palestine is going to blow up Europe - not hardly but Israel can at the drop of a hat. The trouble with you guys is that you are supporting a pig in a horse race. and the fact is if you continue down this path you ain't gonna win. Do you think that in D day for Israel they don't have a few missiles pointed at Germany. Ha get off the dope. You Tires are responsible for your own demise by supporting the wrong side and ultimately you are going to pay the price. Simple as this - If Israel gets attacked big time you die.
Do the research do the math your ass is grass if Iran nukes Israel and you guys just sit on your lame ass criticizing Israel and letting N. Korea go free. And N. Korea is helping Iran get the bomb that goes to Israel who in-turn blows the sh!t out of the middle east and much of the EC. It is apparent when the Muslims are taking over much of your country you are just not the "sharpest knives in the drawer"
I think that is very far-ferched. Why would Israel want to aim anything at its allies (Germany, Italy, etc.)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Roamy
Unfortunately, Israel knows how to fight wars but not how to portray itself in world media. This has become equally important in the global stage and it has gotten to a point people will justify any move agains Israel. I regret that and invite anyone to open their mind and try to look beyond propaganda. I think that anyone has to visit in the middle east if he/she is to have an unbiased view. The media just doesn't do us justice. Of course a big part of that is our fault.
Concerning the flotilla, I think it was a disaster for Israel. In this current day all media will be biased against us but we walked right into this disaster. Huge faults in the intelligence (they should have known those on board were looking for blood), PR (we only responded long hours after the incident) and the action itself was taken all wrong (coming onto the boat right into those savages' hands and getting into a situation people need to be killed in order for the soldiers to come out of it alive. In public media interviews the soldiers said they weren't prepared to anything close to this. They came for a quiet political protest which ended as a full out attack on them. Anyone would have acted as they did to save their own lives.
You can say that again. Stop lying, giving excuses and covering things up, then people might believe you:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rani
http://en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2009,1001.html
Quote:
Israel: operation media crackdown
Operation Cast Lead, Israel’s military offensive against the Gaza Strip, had an impact on the press. As regards its internal situation, Israel sank 47 places in the index to 93rd position. This nose-dive means it has lost its place at the head of the Middle Eastern countries, falling behind Kuwait (60th), United Arab Emirates (86th) and Lebanon (61st).
Israel has begun to use the same methods internally as it does outside its own territory. Reporters Without Borders registered five arrests of journalists, some of them completely illegal, and three cases of imprisonment. The military censorship applied to all the media is also posing a threat to journalists.
As regards its extraterritorial actions, Israel was ranked 150th. The toll of the war was very heavy. Around 20 journalists in the Gaza Strip were injured by the Israeli military forces and three were killed while covering the offensive.
:rotflmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rani
How about a warning when you're going to make a REALLY funny joke? The way I see it, you now owe me $613 for a new HD monitor - this fruit juice will never clean up! Should I just put this on your (multi-billion $) tab, or would it be possible for me to get a check?
You can swing by the house with the check. We could discuss this in a civil manner. Just don't jump on my roof at night with a paintball gun (or any other kind of gun). To me, a man on the roof with a paintball gun, toy gun or real gun would cause me to begin squeezing the trigger on my AK. And that's no good for anybody. Just bring the check and some beer. We'll chew the fat, and some deer jerky, and work this out.
And no, I will not loan you the $613 so you can pay me the $613. That's the kind of thinking that we're trying to get away from, right?
WOW you actually have your own private AK47 (or 74)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
How manly must you be. :dork:
I bet you've used it many times for personal safety reasons. Real men carry automatic weapons, that way if someone you work with gets on your nerves you could go over and settle the score.
Have you been to this area in the last 5 years?
If not than how could you know if the media is judging us fairly or not?
You'll just have to enjoy your fat by your own, or you'll be owing me a pair of shorts. :laugh:
Funnily enough JW doesn't need his nations army invading neighbours because to the credit of the US they don't go out pissing off the neighbours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rani
You're totally correct. They don't invade their neighbours, they invade countries thousands of miles away. They are responsible for anywhere between 50000 and 600000 civilians in Iraq ALONE (not counting Afghanistan).Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
http://usliberals.about.com/od/homel...raqNumbers.htm
I believe that is more than the total number of people (counting soldiers lost in war and civilians on all sides) lost in the Arab Israeli conflict over the last 60 years. You're so ill informed it never ceases to amaze me.Quote:
Iraqi Civilians Killed, Estimated - A UN issued report dated Sept 20, 2006 stating that Iraqi civilian casualties have been significantly under-reported. Casualties are reported at 50,000 to over 100,000, but may be much higher. Some informed estimates place Iraqi civilian casualities at over 600,000.
Real smart post Daniel.
You make a good point. But at least the US is smart enough to do its opression outside of missile range.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rani
Face it, you govt is full of morons. If you're going to pick on someone then don't pick on the kid next door even if he is weaker than you.
When you'll have your malls and buses exploding, your town being in a shower of rockets, and facing neighbours with about ten times the population and enough oil to buy all the weapons in the world that don't want to co-exist but to wipe you off the face of the earth, maybe then you'll have the right to judge or have the ability to comprehend things you so arrogantly seem to think you understand better than anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Good luck with your boycott, I'd start here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saeky9I5T9c
Watch it till the end so you could do real damage. :idea:
Good advice. That way you could find your mailbox blown up, a bag of doggy-do on your porch, your car scratched, your house egged or toilet-papered, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
**** me Israel invented EVERYTHING
That's the most ridiculous video I've ever seen.
Try not to laugh too hard or you'll we needing one of these http://www.ptca.org/devices4.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
We all know you aren't excercising as much as you should with you thousand posts per day. I wish you the best of health, boycotting Israel by not using your computer with your chip from Kiryat Gat will probably help that cause. I say go for it.
You can get an equal chip from Taiwan, South Korea or elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rani
How do you explain the fact all those things haven't happened to you then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
I am sure mossad is monitoring this thread and biding their time when to strike your porch with some fresh doggy poo.
Neither of the Intel chips in our PC's here were fabbed in Israel :wave: :kiss:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rani
We are not messing with our neighbors (Russia, Sweden and Norway) and they aren't messing with us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rani
I wouldn't be surprised one bit. Except if it really were just doggy poo and not some high-explosives disguised as doggy-poo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rani
I'm afraid I must protest. I'm sure an Israeli invented surprise, therefore you're not allowed to be surprised.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
MAK-47's in a couple of different configurations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rani
I sure am, and cute too... my mom told me so! :)Quote:
How manly must you be. :dork:
No, thankfully I've never had to pull the trigger on a human target with any weapon I've owned - and I hope that I never have to. I'm not John Wayne or Clint Eastwood and I don't want to be. There are two weapons that either by sight or sound usually convince a perp that it's time to move along: the pump shotgun, when the slide is racked, and the (M)AK-47 (or 74) with a fat drum hanging out of the receiver. On two occasions I've had to show my AK, just so that all interested parties understood where I was coming from. Ya see, meth heads and dope users sometimes have trouble with reality. The sight of a scowling man holding an AK with a huge drum magazine somehow tends to snap them back to reality. Go figure. :dozey: If someone is poor and they need food (deer meat) or firewood, then ask me for it. Like my father and grandfather, I believe that if a man is (truly) down and out, and I can help him, I'll do what I can. But if you come on my family's land and try to steal from me or take what's not yours (or shoot my deer and leave most of the meat on the ground)... yeah, it's very likely that some sh## is going to get stirred. I'm not unique in that belief - and it doesn't make me a "bad dude" or a "manly man". That's just how people are where I live. Mind your own business. Don't f### with others... and don't let them f### with you. Most of the "natives" get that, so we have a very low crime rate here. It's the outsiders who tend to get themsleves into trouble. Mr. AK just holds their attention while the rules get explained to them. When all a doper/firewood thief can say after hearing the riot act read to him is, "f###in' eh, man... that thing is the sh##!!! nah, you ain't gonna see me again!"... I guess he gets the point.Quote:
I bet you've used it many times for personal safety reasons.
Whether it's a country or a man, people have to learn (one way or another) to abide by the rules. That applies to your country and your Middle Eastern neighbors. You boys & girls need to learn to play nice together. You stole their land, just like my people stole the Indians' land. OK, that's done now. We're not going back in time in either case. Draw a line in the sand. You stay on your side (and stop building houses on disputed territory) and they stay on their side (and they need to stop shooting rockets at you). Both of you need to get over yourselves before someone with my mindset becomes President and beats the living crap out of BOTH of you... just to have some peace and quiet for a change.
I'll keep that in mind. If I can find one at a decent price, I may someday get a Class III license or tax stamp and buy an H&K MP5 (man, I love those things!). But for now, I'll just stick with my semi-auto toys... and my size 13 foot. :DQuote:
Real men carry automatic weapons, that way if someone you work with gets on your nerves you could go over and settle the score.
No, I've never been there. I thought you meant the global media outlets (or specifically the Western media outlets). Israel gets treated with kid gloves over here by the media (IMO). "Fair & balanced" it ain't.Quote:
Have you been to this area in the last 5 years?
If not than how could you know if the media is judging us fairly or not?
You don't know what you're missing out on. My spicy deer jerky and a 12 pack of good beer (you choose) is like Heaven on earth. The offer remains open. Just don't land on the roof!Quote:
You'll just have to enjoy your fat by your own, or you'll be owing me a pair of shorts. :laugh:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
It's the ones with the forged passports that you have to be really worried about..... :)
You totally misunderstood me. Of course Eki can be surprised (even though he shouldn't be because he didn't understand my earlier post). Every one can be surprised. It'll hurt your boycott though. BTW This is the time to throw away your portable storage devicesQuote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Systems
Forget the fruit, I say go after the big dogs!
I have wondered why that hasn't already happened, but the US always sides with Israel whatever they do. Obama's regime doesn't seem to be any different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
I'm pretty sure we already had someone like that in office. Not so long ago actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
Maybe I'll drop by then. About the roof thing, You have nothing to worry about, I don't pack weapons and usually knock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
Nah. The closest the U.S. has come to having someone with anything even a tad close to my mindset is Ross Perot in 1992. These mamby-pamby types we've had running our foreign policy for the past 50+ years make me sick. They're like $5 hookers. Any foreign lobbyist with a bag of cash can bend them over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rani
That's cool. Just let the dog sniff you a couple of times and she won't bite you then. :DQuote:
Maybe I'll drop by then. About the roof thing, You have nothing to worry about, I don't pack weapons and usually knock.
The truth is the first victim, and maybe also the last:
http://en.rsf.org/israel-at-least-60...010,37646.html
If they have nothing to hide, they should have let the journalists report freely and tell what really happened.Quote:
At least 60 journalists were aboard flotilla, most still held
Published on 2 June 2010
Reporters Without Borders reiterates its urgent appeal to the Israeli authorities to release the journalists who were accompanying the Gaza-bound humanitarian flotilla that was intercepted on 31 May. According to the latest information available to the press freedom organisation, at least 60 journalists were aboard.
“We point out that the journalists were there to do their job, which was to cover what happened,” Reporters Without Borders said. “They should not be confused with the activists. Three hundred of the flotilla’s passengers are about to be deported but journalists are still being held. We call on the Israeli authorities to free all the detained journalists and return their equipment, which was seized by the military.”