WRC Driver Conduct On Road Sections - Case Tänak at Monte Carlo

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Originally Posted by drive

to keep it short - did you send other video to FIA? or just one video of Ott and asking to ban him?

That would clear loads of emotions.... or create a new ones... if you dare to answer. because now loads of emotions but not clear whatyou have done and what not

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Only the original video of Tänak and I haven't explicitly asked them to ban anyone. However I have told FIA to strongly consider taking some kind of clear action for the best of the sport, whatever that is. I have left no room for doubt that as a big fan of rallying I feel Tänak disrespects the sport in the video, unintentionally or not. It is up to the them what they want to do or not do. But I have absolutely no interest of sending them any other videos or incidents that I have seen so far, zero interest. That's enough from my part for now. I would rather concentrate on more constructive lines like Watson has been talking about. If you don't like it, you don't like it.

enough said...
if I would be you, and I wanted to make the point about unsafe driving, rally drivers as an icons for youth and others to follow, etc etc as you were writing - I would make a proper file of wrong doings... not ONE driver, but as we can see now - almost all drivers done some BAD things... and I would be complaining till the end to try make a difference....

You have chosen other path:
to blame one driver.....
drifting other drivers - thats fine...
using mobile (!!!!!!!!!!) while driving - so what....

do you still dont get why so many people are calling you names? cmon....

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Originally Posted by drive

enough said...
if I would be you, and I wanted to make the point about unsafe driving, rally drivers as an icons for youth and others to follow, etc etc as you were writing - I would make a proper file of wrong doings... not ONE driver, but as we can see now - almost all drivers done some BAD things... and I would be ng till the end to try make a difference....

You have chosen other path:
to blame one driver.....
drifting other drivers - thats fine...
using mobile (!!!!!!!!!!) while driving - so what....

do you still dont get why so many people are calling you names? cmon....

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I can forgive the people writing mindless babble targeted towards me like I said. They don't know any better and it's all done hiding behind nicknames. It's so very easy to do without any thought whatsoever. But I most certainly don't have a responsibility to justify myself or my actions outside this forum to anyone here. Are you kidding? If you don't like it, tough luck. I won't go down that road anymore. To be honest I have explained myself too much for you already.

And now we all see, its not about safety, not about how rallying is seen from outside, its about Tännak. You have made your point.

If I had some kind of vendetta against Tänak particularly, I would have already sent them the second video where he misbehaves. But really I'm not interested. One short video where the problem is presented very well is enough. You are talking now about something again that I have addressed pages ago.

While we're on the subject of Tanak, how awesome was he on the stages in Monte Carlo? Still think its a damn shame that he left M-Sport, but if he carries on driving like that I can't see it behind long before he becomes the number one driver at Toyota.

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Originally Posted by tbtstt

While we're on the subject of Tanak, how awesome was he on the stages in Monte Carlo? Still think its a damn shame that he left M-Sport, but if he carries on driving like that I can't see it behind long before he becomes the number one driver at Toyota.

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He adjusted to Yaris WRC very well, which clearly is there in the results too. He kind of is M-Sport driver, but same were Latvala and Hirvonen in the past too. And if there were any hesitations for Tänak about how good Yaris is, I'm sure he's quite confident now (and hopefully even more confident when he goes to bed after this weekend). Toyota is looking very strong for Sweden. Let's just not jinx it. Who comes out on top could be just a matter of details what happens in the rally. On paper both Jari-Matti and Ott could win it and to a lesser degree Esapekka too. Surely Ogier, Neuville, Mikkelsen will have a say on this too. In the end us the fans are the winners, at least.

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Originally Posted by Hartusvuori

He adjusted to Yaris WRC very well, which clearly is there in the results too. He kind of is M-Sport driver, but same were Latvala and Hirvonen in the past too. And if there were any hesitations for Tänak about how good Yaris is, I'm sure he's quite confident now (and hopefully even more confident when he goes to bed after this weekend). Toyota is looking very strong for Sweden. Let's just not jinx it. Who comes out on top could be just a matter of details what happens in the rally. On paper both Jari-Matti and Ott could win it and to a lesser degree Esapekka too. Surely Ogier, Neuville, Mikkelsen will have a say on this too. In the end us the fans are the winners, at least.

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Absolutely! Given the rather rocky development path for the Yaris, the fact it ran at all was a bit of a surprise, but it's brilliant that the car is competitive: and that the rest of the field (apart from the Citroen!) are so close.

I actually thought Tanak in the Fiesta was the most entertaining driver to watch of the 2017 season, which is why I was disappointed that he left M-Sport. He seems to have landed on his feet at Toyota though and, if he had stayed at M-Sport, it surely would have been difficult to have moved out of the shadow of Ogier. I think Toyota will give him a much better chance to really shine: I just hope he is as sideways as last year!

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Originally Posted by Mr C1412

I would hate to see you try.

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You come here, call people idiots, tell them to fck off and what not, yet as soon as you're met with a little resistance (without any name calling) you get upset? You're the one constantly telling everybody to man up. Funny, eh?

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Originally Posted by Watson

You come here, call people idiots, tell them to fck off and what not, yet as soon as you're met with a little resistance (without any name calling) you get upset? You're the one constantly telling everybody to man up. Funny, eh?

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I think it's just better to stop wasting time with this kind of people. If they can't discuss in a respectful manner towards other members, it's not really worth to pay much attention to them.

Ok now actually on topic. What I would suggest to solve this problem is a lot in line with what Watson has suggested earlier. Close the road a few hundred metres before the start wherever this is possible and feasible where drivers can warm up a bit. If it's not possible on some stages for whatever reason, then drivers have to do without it, no ifs or buts, it's the same for everyone. Also don't allow spectators to be walking around in that bit of warm up road. Nowadays it's normal for drivers to do warming up immediately before the stage start with public freely hanging around, with little kids running in between cars asking for autographs and it's not a pretty thing to see.

I don't know what is the regulation regarding liaison onboards right now, but those would have to be fully recorded. I am not suggesting someone should go through everyone's liaison onboards every rally, but if any problems or complaints arise, you can access the incident from onboard view as well. Obviously everyone's speed would be monitored as well. Drastic speedings would be taken immediate action against, always, without any ifs or buts. If someone misbehaves, no fines, 10 second time penalties or any nonsense like that, but you are immediately talking about a disqualification and rally bans the first time around. The second time it happens, you are banned for a year at least.

Things change and so does WRC, it simply has to in order to keep existing. Back in the golden 80s in most WRC rallies it was still common practice for drivers to have completely free reign to practice the stages as much as they liked. So you had professional rally drivers in rally cars doing rally speeds, practicing optimal lines for corners, on open public roads! There were no regulations regarding that whatsoever, before the rally or during the rally, everything was ok. For example Henri Toivonen went to practice stages in a long rest halt of Rally Monte Carlo in 1986 to be better prepared for the last leg. And of course as a result of this there were many injuries and even deaths involving innocent members of the public who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Just imagine if that was still allowed today! Nowadays that seems often forgotten, now we only mostly remember the Group B cars and crowd behaviour from the 80s. But If that practice wasn't outlawed by the early 90s and the modern recce laws implemented, WRC would have been long dead when writing this message.

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Originally Posted by AnttiK7

Back in the golden 80s in most WRC rallies it was still common practice for drivers to have completely free reign to practice the stages as much as they liked. So you had professional rally drivers in rally cars doing rally speeds, practicing optimal lines for corners, on open public roads! There were no regulations regarding that whatsoever, before the rally or during the rally, everything was ok. For example Henri Toivonen went to practice stages in a long rest halt of Rally Monte Carlo in 1986 to be better prepared for the last leg.

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Hmm, I think they used rally cars for recce/practice but not on rally speeds, there was still police around giving fines. Although many drivers preferred to practice by night to have less traffic and to see other cars coming the opposite direction by their lights.

Also, there's various stories about the Toivonen Monte 1986 thing, he was indeed taken by helicopter into the mountains but one story is that he went to a closed road test, other is that he went for another recce round with Harri Toivonen checking the pace notes. Also, Harri has told about Henri doing four wheel slides with the car going backwards into a hairpin on icy roads and Harri being really scared of that, but another version is that it happened already before the rally in tests.

Maybe there would be a possibility to create a system where you could insert the speed limit of any given point of each road stage and synchronize it with the telemtry data. If the programme shows apparent breaking of the speed limit the officials can take a closer look. This way you wouldn't have to monitor evey mile of every stage with a bunch of blokesditting in front of TVs all day.

I suppose this way you would also be able to monitor drivers sliding around most of the time since wheelspin is recorded in the telemetry as a very sudden increase in speed which could be detected by a logarythm.

Now concerning the penalties handed out I think disqualification and bans should only apply for really bad infrictions. If a driver goes on a motorway and is allowed 120 kph and goes 160 he poses far less of a risk than when he goes 90 where he is only allowed 50. That should definitly be taken into account and first offenders should get away lighter imo.

The teams could make the drivers' life easier by allowing the drivers to dial in speed limiters (similar to pit limiters) in their road engine managment settings. (Most commonly 40, 50, 60, 80 and 120 kph in Europe)

This would put an end to the drivers being rewarded for speeding if they had to spend time repairing.

As for the warm up zones I'm pretty much with you Antti. I actually don't think that closing stretches of road would be that much of a problem since it they don't need to be very long and it reduces the risk of casualties for the organizers. Maybe allowing drivers to carry heated blankets would also be a possibility if there is time for it before the stage. The drivers would turn up before the stage, put on the blankets and take them off right before they roll up to the start.

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

Hmm, I think they used rally cars for recce/practice but not on rally speeds, there was still police around giving fines. Although many drivers preferred to practice by night to have less traffic and to see other cars coming the opposite direction by their lights.

Also, there's various stories about the Toivonen Monte 1986 thing, he was indeed taken by helicopter into the mountains but one story is that he went to a closed road test, other is that he went for another recce round with Harri Toivonen checking the pace notes. Also, Harri has told about Henri doing four wheel slides with the car going backwards into a hairpin on icy roads and Harri being really scared of that, but another version is that it happened already before the rally in tests.

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Recces were not done on rally speeds, but I think it's fair to say they didn't always obey the speed limit either. For example that story that Timo Salonen tells at the end of the great great film "Superautojen aika" from recce of Acropolis '85 (?) doesn't necessarily sound like they've used normal road speed :D

Regarding the Toivonen story... seems like way too much time has passed to anyone remember it correctly. It's the same thing with his fatal accident in Corsica. Even the ones who were there mess things up.

I always understood the Toivonen story that Lancia had a practice rally car ready and waiting in the mountains and they flew Toivonen by helicopter to practice the stages. They definitely flew him there, but from there on the stories differ. Admittedly there's a lot of mythology and mixed up stories regarding Toivonen and 1986, let's not get started with Estoril. I remember Markku Alén telling how back in the 80s he would practice for 1000 Lakes as if the whole route was one long circuit. Practicing the ideal line for every metre of the route. The notes were very simple and just there as a back up for the memory in essence. It definitely wasn't driving from the notes. Back then drivers memorised the roads by driving them again and again and again. Nowadays the memorisation process happens much more safely through videos.

Apart from the aforementioned Salonen incident at Acropolis, of the top of my head I can remember a few other incidents involving famous drivers. Didier Auriol was in a recce accident for Rally Portugal some year which involved serious injuries for the other party, but I can't pinpoint the year now unfortunately. Practicing for 1989 Corsica Juha Kankkunen had an accident with a recreational vehicle (?) in which only apparently miraculous luck prevented serious injuries. Very promising French driver from the same generation than Mr. Loeb, Marc Champeau lost his life in 1999 while practicing a stage for the Mont Blanc Rally, the road was open for public and he hit a lorry head on with his WRC Impreza. Marcus Grönholm's father Ulf Grönholm actually also lost his life driving a rally car on a public road, but as far as I have understood it wasn't practicing but just a kind of a shakedown test for the car. I am pretty sure there were fatalities during the recce in 1985 Monte Carlo and the accident either involved Ari Vatanen or someone close to him, but I couldn't find more info on that with a quick search.

Ironically one time it actually happened the other way around for a famous driver. In 1994 Francois Delecour was slowly cruising in his friend's Ferrari F40 in France when a driver practicing for a local rally crashed into him head on. Quite serious leg injuries and the end of what probably would have been a serious Championship challenge to become the first French World Champion instead of Auriol that year. He actually never won another WRC rally after that accident.

Completely off topic, I have always been fascinated by the driving style of Francois Delecour in 1993 and early 1994 when he was at his very best. I don't think I have ever seen another World class rally driver drive so smooth and trying to avoid any kind of sliding as much as he did back then. Like night and day when you compare him to Auriol's style at the time.

You can get hurt seriously in a car accident driving 80 km/h, plenty for recce on a small gravel road. Meanwhile, the rally speed could be double that.

Ulf Grönholm (Marcus's dad) was indeed practicing/testing in the night time in winter, and crashed into the rear of a parked snowplow truck. The rally car also burned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGuS4cX4x00

Here's a good onboard video on this subject. Kankkunen practicing for San Remo 1988 and it looks like the Perinaldo stage to me. Note that the road is open for public and the amount of speed carried into the corners, a bit after 20 seconds a road car comes the other way. Jeans, T-shirt and no helmets of course either. :D

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

Ulf Grönholm (Marcus's dad) was indeed practicing/testing in the night time in winter, and crashed into the rear of a parked snowplow truck. The rally car also burned.

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And Uffe's accident, if any, was result of totally illegal (by today's standards) "testing" - carried out on the eve of Hankiralli (classic winter rally in Southern Finland) on a public road. There was nothing scandalous tough (in the press etc.), as it was more or less common practice back then.

Being a younger rally fan the one that sticks out to me was very recent, Alexey Lukyanuk's shakedown accident a few months (years?) ago, where he crashed head on into another car.

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Not sure what all the fuss is about here. Yes, a bit naughty and Tomi should have a word but... meh... asking for harsh penalties?
I hope you never become a cop or judge... you would shoot or hang people for farting. :$

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Originally Posted by Zico

asking for harsh penalties?
I hope you never become a cop or judge... you would shoot or hang people for farting. :$

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I am definitely for harsh penalties for this type of things, but in the sporting context. I have never talked about hanging people here. And rally organisers in WRC have taken action against these kinds of incidents all the way from the 1970s to 2000s, for much lesser infringements as well. Those instances have just usually necessitated a police involvement at first so there hasn't been any kind of consistency whatsoever, when it comes to giving penalties for this type of antics. Stig Blomqvist was disqualified from the 1975 1000 Lakes for speeding on a road section. Hannu Mikkola was given a five minute penalty in 1979 Monte Carlo for doing an illegal overtake, which he denies having done to this day. Retrospectively looking, that penalty ended up costing Mikkola the 1979 World Championship, the first Drivers' World Championship in history. Also Tommi Mäkinen was given a five minute penalty in 2003 New Zealand for speeding 50kph over the speed limit in an urban area. Colin McRae did have to go to the FIA court in Paris in 1996 for driving recklessly in service area in Argentina.

Let's take an F1 example. Please note this example refers to consequences caused by lack of action, in no way I am comparing this incident or the severity of it to Tänak's case. I am a great fan of Ayrton Senna, but that doesn't change my opinion that after what he did in 1990 Suzuka (deliberately ram into Alain Prost in high speed, in order to win the World Championship), the correct action would have been to strip Senna of his 1990 World Championship and he should have been banned for the whole of the 1991 seson as well. But no action was taken, none. Amazingly, some of the motorsport press actually heralded Senna and blamed Prost for disrespecting the sport for daring to whine about Senna. And what happened a few years later, a certain fella named Michael Schumacher brandished similar driving code in World Championship deciders (even if the Schumacher incidents weren't nearly as serious as Senna's in 1990). But if Senna had been strongly punished for 1990, I don't think Schumacher would have tried to pull his tricks later.

In Tänak's case I would just disqualify him for Monte and ban him for a couple of rallies. It would be a very harsh penalty given the history of extremely inconsistent dealings with this type of incidents and sure it would send shockwaves. But it could be the beginning of more consistent and clearer penalties for road section silliness that would keep drivers better in line in the future and when looking back, it could be seen as a very important decision for the sport.

Again, you see only Tänak's mistakes but Ogier and others you just leave out. Lets ban them all from Monte and ban them from couple of rallies. You cant select just one to be punished if others did same things.
Every post you prove, its about you not liking Tänak and not about what he or others have done.

This thing has been laughed out in most places, probably also by the FIA or we`d have already read their answer. Stop feeding it...

The only ones who complain are the Finns. Coincidence? What happened to you? where did the people of Simo Häyhä disappear? Now there is only complains and whining. O tempora o mores.

edit. And yes, i registered myself just to say that.

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Originally Posted by bandit12

where did the people of Simo Häyhä disappear?

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Ooh, now I feel so offended as there's nothing cooler than to be a sniper in the Winter War.

You're right. There is not nothing cooler.

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Originally Posted by AnttiK7

In Tänak's case I would just disqualify him for Monte and ban him for a couple of rallies. It would be a very harsh penalty given the history of extremely inconsistent dealings with this type of incidents and sure it would send shockwaves...

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https://media.giphy.com/media/l1l3Wn73VuOrK/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by bandit12

The only ones who complain are the Finns. Coincidence? What happened to you? where did the people of Simo Häyhä disappear? Now there is only complains and whining. O tempora o mores.

edit. And yes, i registered myself just to say that.

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I'm not Finnish and I'm with AnttiK7 eventhough I probably stand for milder penatlies. I don't think he is targetting Tanak specifically either, in his eyes his slide was a bigger infriction than say Ogier's looking at the phone while driving, which is debatable. Debatable as in a viewpoint you can disagree with yet not forcing anyone to take out the big guns for disagreeig.

Besides, Tanak after all still drives for a Finnish team, so I doubt he'd want to him see fail. It would make more sense for him to go after Ogier or Mikkelsen if he wanted to disadvantage non-Finnish championship prospects.

It`s quite obvious that it is more personal, but you believe that...

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Originally Posted by AnttiK7

In Tänak's case I would just disqualify him for Monte and ban him for a couple of rallies. It would be a very harsh penalty given the history of extremely inconsistent dealings with this type of incidents and sure it would send shockwaves. But it could be the beginning of more consistent and clearer penalties for road section silliness that would keep drivers better in line in the future and when looking back, it could be seen as a very important decision for the sport.

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You still haven't given us any sensible reason why Tanak should be singled out for such punishment instead of another driver.

You talk about the beginning of more consistent and clearer penalties and yet you want to pick one driver seemingly at random to make an example of with extreme punishment?

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Originally Posted by GravelBen

You still haven't given us any sensible reason why Tanak should be singled out for such punishment instead of another driver.

You talk about the beginning of more consistent and clearer penalties and yet you want to pick one driver seemingly at random to make an example of with extreme punishment?

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I think we've had enough of this thread already.

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Update regarding FIA's involvement in the case. Jean Todt's chief of staff Mr. Malenfer has informed me that the Tänak incident has been now reported to the Stewards. So the FIA is having a look into the issue at least and haven't turned the blind eye, which is good. We'll see where the case goes from here.

So we should start filing complaints about Ogier using phone and sliding, Mikkelsen sliding. And search for videos about other drivers too and after every rally, so we find out who won after half a year, when all complaints are looked over?

https://youtu.be/UT8pg0xEQ4I?t=44 Ogier shoul be banned from 2017 championship.
https://youtu.be/UT8pg0xEQ4I?t=122 Thierry to

https://youtu.be/5O-INzThaZ0?t=23 Ogier again in MC2018
https://youtu.be/5O-INzThaZ0?t=28 Mikkelsen in MC2018

As long as you don't report other drivers doing same thing your'e a butt-hurt finn trying to get Tänak out from this years championship because Latvala is getting his ass whipped by Tänak.
If you want fair game, then all those known misdoings should be reported by you, bus as long as you haven't done that, everyone sees that you are only trying to get Tänak.
You have said, that its not about Tännak and you being finn and you would report others to, but after you get proof that others do the same things you don't report them.

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Originally Posted by AnttiK7

Update regarding FIA's involvement in the case. Jean Todt's chief of staff Mr. Malenfer has informed me that the Tänak incident has been now reported to the Stewards. So the FIA is having a look into the issue at least and haven't turned the blind eye, which is good. We'll see where the case goes from here.

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Does that mean you have reported this incident to FIA? ? If so you should be banned from this forum imho, this forum is made for rally fans i believe.

Btw, have you ever driven a 4wd +300 HP car with studded tires on fresh snow? Quite impossible to not go sideways...

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Originally Posted by Adler

Does that mean you have reported this incident to FIA? ? If so you should be banned from this forum imho, this forum is made for rally fans i believe.

Btw, have you ever driven a 4wd +300 HP car with studded tires on fresh snow? Quite impossible to not go sideways...

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Indeed!

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Originally Posted by MartinMK

So we should start filing complaints about Ogier using phone and sliding, Mikkelsen sliding. And search for videos about other drivers too and after every rally, so we find out who won after half a year, when all complaints are looked over?

https://youtu.be/UT8pg0xEQ4I?t=44 Ogier shoul be banned from 2017 championship.
https://youtu.be/UT8pg0xEQ4I?t=122 Thierry to

https://youtu.be/5O-INzThaZ0?t=23 Ogier again in MC2018
https://youtu.be/5O-INzThaZ0?t=28 Mikkelsen in MC2018

As long as you don't report other drivers doing same thing your'e a butt-hurt finn trying to get Tänak out from this years championship because Latvala is getting his ass whipped by Tänak.
If you want fair game, then all those known misdoings should be reported by you, bus as long as you haven't done that, everyone sees that you are only trying to get Tänak.
You have said, that its not about Tännak and you being finn and you would report others to, but after you get proof that others do the same things you don't report them.

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Yes, you must act like a real rallye fan and twitter hero.

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Originally Posted by Adler

Does that mean you have reported this incident to FIA?

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Yes.

Regarding the other comments, I won't go anymore into the issue of comparing different incidents with the Tänak case and whatnot. That one I have explained in depth already and you will find everything I have to say about that within the confines of this thread.

But regarding the nationality thing, if I cared so much about that, then why on earth would I make such a song and dance about an Estonian driver, driving for an essentially Finnish WRC team. Toyota's WRC team is quite a big thing in Finland after all and if I cared about being nationalistic, I would be very quiet about anything negative involving them. FIA now looking into Tänak does much more harm for Toyota's rally team than it does good for the Finnish drivers, who drive for it. I highly doubt there is anything good about this thing for anyone in the Toyota team.

If you notice, I earlier said that in my opinion Ayrton Senna should have been banned from Formula 1 for a year at the very minimum, while I also stated that I am his great fan. I think it's healthy to apply critical thinking with everything in life. Just because you are a fan of someone, it doesn't mean you have to approve of everything they do or say either, no one or nothing is perfect. Or just because someone does something you think is wrong, it doesn't mean they are an all around horrible person with nothing to admire about them.

When it comes to driving on the stages, I admire Ott's commitment and speed. Comparing him directly to Latvala, I believe Tänak is actually an all around faster driver than Latvala at the moment. Who is more consistent nowadays is more up in the air though, as Latvala has become much more consistent since he joined Toyota. I would probably give a very slight advantage to Latvala on that criteria, as last year we saw the most mature Latvala we have ever seen, but he was very unlucky with mechanical failures. So at the moment I would probably rate Tänak and Latvala fairly even, with Lappi far behind them, simply because he is still way too inconsistent. I have no problem in saying that in my opinion so far Lappi has driven a lot more bad rallies for Toyota, than good ones. The slightly fortuitous win in Finland probably flatters his rating a bit to be honest. Apart from that rally he has mostly been either slow or binning it.

But like I have said already before, this topic is about driving off the stages, not on them.

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Originally Posted by AnttiK7

Yes.

Regarding the other comments, I won't go anymore into the issue of comparing different incidents with the Tänak case and whatnot. That one I have explained in depth already and you will find everything I have to say about that within the confines of this thread.

But regarding the nationality thing, if I cared so much about that, then why on earth would I make such a song and dance about an Estonian driver, driving for an essentially Finnish WRC team. Toyota's WRC team is quite a big thing in Finland after all and if I cared about being nationalistic, I would be very quiet about anything negative involving them. FIA now looking into Tänak does much more harm for Toyota's rally team than it does good for the Finnish drivers, who drive for it. I highly doubt there is anything good about this thing for anyone in the Toyota team.

If you notice, I earlier said that in my opinion Ayrton Senna should have been banned from Formula 1 for a year at the very minimum, while I also stated that I am his great fan. I think it's healthy to apply critical thinking with everything in life. Just because you are a fan of someone, it doesn't mean you have to approve of everything they do or say either, no one or nothing is perfect. Or just because someone does something you think is wrong, it doesn't mean they are an all around horrible person with nothing to admire about them.

When it comes to driving on the stages, I admire Ott's commitment and speed. Comparing him directly to Latvala, I believe Tänak is actually an all around faster driver than Latvala at the moment. Who is more consistent nowadays is more up in the air though, as Latvala has become much more consistent since he joined Toyota. I would probably give a very slight advantage to Latvala on that criteria, as last year we saw the most mature Latvala we have ever seen, but he was very unlucky with mechanical failures. So at the moment I would probably rate Tänak and Latvala fairly even, with Lappi far behind them, simply because he is still way too inconsistent. I have no problem in saying that in my opinion so far Lappi has driven a lot more bad rallies for Toyota, than good ones. The slightly fortuitous win in Finland probably flatters his rating a bit to be honest. Apart from that rally he has mostly been either slow or binning it.

But like I have said already before, this topic is about driving off the stages, not on them.

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Douchebag. Tanak and Toyota will be proud of you.

Let's hope that FIA have better things to do than work on your "case" and will forget about all. And then you can go crying in the corner.

Stupid people everywhere..

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Originally Posted by Adler

Does that mean you have reported this incident to FIA? ? If so you should be banned from this forum imho, this forum is made for rally fans i believe.

Btw, have you ever driven a 4wd +300 HP car with studded tires on fresh snow? Quite impossible to not go sideways...

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Agree 100% this person should be banned...what an I....?