Ogier wasn't handed the win at all, at the end of the day he was the one who had the quickest time card over all of the rally and he won, you got to be there at the end to win,neuville wasn't...Quote:
Originally Posted by SlyFox
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Ogier wasn't handed the win at all, at the end of the day he was the one who had the quickest time card over all of the rally and he won, you got to be there at the end to win,neuville wasn't...Quote:
Originally Posted by SlyFox
She had Fiesta R2 at Neste Rally Finland 2016 and is in Rally Sweden entry list with R2.Quote:
Originally Posted by macebig
Hi and welcome to the forum. It depends what you mean by "handed". Yes he was 2nd when Neuville crashed but Neuville crashed by his own fault. On of the challenges of rallying is getting to the end; so I wouldn't say Ogier was handed anything. He simply had the best pace and finished the rally in the shortest time.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlyFox
I think instead that the analysis is not a problem. On the contrary I really love to analyse everything that I'm interested in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
The problem is how it's done. Overanalysis is bad (I think you're referring to this maybe), as is bad to give conclusion without analysing enough. Imo.
Let's hope Sweden will be less schizophrenic.
Of course we know where is Barbados! Or at least me :DQuote:
Originally Posted by SlyFox
BTW, I don't believe the victory was handed. Neuville made a mistake, Ogier don't. Maybe Ogier has been a bit lucky to escape some little mistake he made but that's rally and it doesn't mean his victory was handed.
I do remember a few people on this forum saying Mikkelsen was handed his first win by Ogier crashing out, if they're consistent they would say the same about this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by markpcym
I agree with you though, they'd be wrong on both counts. A win is a win and as someone once said - to finish first, first you have to finish.
I think Ogier was lucky to get away so light with his few mistakes (Neuville's damaging mistake was smaller than Ogier's but with much worse consequence), but luck is part of rallying too and you have to accept it.Quote:
Originally Posted by AL14
I think the only driver I didn't see* any mistakes from was Tanak, and his car had a 'mistake' instead!
*He might have made mistakes too that I didn't see...
Didn't he not damage his suspension and as a result have a flat tire?Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
what problem did he have and damaged his suspension ?Quote:
Originally Posted by SlyFox
Guys, I think you're in the wrong thread with all the Monte Carlo talk.
Latvala had problems with Ogier in VW-team. Ogier didn´t share his experiences/settings to Latvala.
No team spirit that is. (My personal comment) From MTV Sports.fi
But to be a champion you must, on occasion, beat the best of the rest fair and square across the range. I see the 2 incidents you're comparing as essentially different. In Spain Mikkelsen was nowhere in contention for 1st and entered that last stage fully hoping just to hold onto 2nd place. The only win that is less valued in recent times was Ostberg's when Hirvonen was disqualified. In France Neuville would have been aware that he had less than a minute in hand over a driver who preserves his tyres, knows the roads and was getting quicker as the rally progressed. Under that pressure he got it wrong, as opposed to being so far ahead and losing concentration. There is an optimum level of driving effort, slip off it too soon and mistakes happen, I think Neuville didn't want that to happen but didn't follow the pace note well enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelBen
Generally the 'Ogier luck' issue follows the 'Loeb luck' previous edition. The notes quality, the position the car takes on the road and the ability to respond effectively to any error means problems either dont translate to punctures / suspension damage or the avoiding actions are planned for in any case. A famous golfer once said 'The harder I practice the luckier I seem to get'.
Latvala reply: @rallyparadise Never said it was a problem! Don't change my words. I said that it was another way of working of what I was used to before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Yeah, saw that afterwords. Was alternative fact, first published. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
However no smoke without fire.
I had read somewhere that all VW drivers shared their data instead. What Latvala meant to say at the end?
T.Neuville: "Seb will be catchy this year"
https://translate.google.ee/translat...%2F&edit-text=
"This will be the man to beat this year as usual. But with the Fiesta WRC, it will be possible, the car will surely not allow him to achieve the exploits he has accumulated the past seasons even if he keeps his qualities as a driver. The Fiesta will be less efficient, it will evolve less than a factory car. It will be harder for him. "
Given the difference in style between them, Ogier's data given to Latvala would have been as effective as giving a fish a bicycle!
Monte showed a new JML approach, I think. In a year when the top guys may cause each over to go over-limit and cars may fail then being the consistent tortoise may pay off (as long as it doesn't become a snail!)
Just keep telling yourself that, Thierry. Who knows, you may end up believing it!Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Monte was the other driver's best chance to beat Ogier (late seat swap, new team, new car, little testing)... but he STILL won.
This doesn't bode well for when he has fully settled-in... ;)
Neuville the dreamer
Everybody (exept breen) was in a new car no?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Don't exaggarate please. It's Ogier, he settles in quit quick (remember the first rally's with the VW, first drive in Peugeot 207 S2000 => victory, first drive in DS3 WRC => victory).
We will see.
Still i think Thierry will be a real contender for victory on nearly every rally this year. Although he made a (what i read little) mistake in the Monte, i got the feeling he was very confortable in the car up to that point, and fast! Also his powerstage win says something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintexmemory
I agree with this, except for the powerstage. It doesn't say much because Ogier was nursing the win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duvel
But yes, if we don't take into account Ogier's off, up until Thierry's mistake, they both had almost the same times.
Yes, another title for Ogier is possible, but he must deploy all of his skills and work a lot harder to get it. Ford surprised me (I have to admit), but still think Huyndai have a better car for 2017.
I tend to agree except for the Power Stage, because that meant nothing with the changing conditions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duvel
He didn have a victory in his first event in the ds3Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper
New car, yes, new car !!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper
All had new WRC cars but had thoroughly tested in them... but not Mr Ogier !
He had been testing the 2017 Polo for the last year... not the Fiesta !
Jari-Matti Latvala denies falling out with Sebastien Ogier at VW
Jari-Matti Latvala has denied reports of disharmony with Sebastien Ogier in the Volkswagen World Rally Championship team last season.
Latvala was reportedly critical of both the German manufacturer and Ogier over their time together, but the Finn says he was misquoted.
"These words were not mine," Latvala told Autosport. "I didn't say Seb refused to talk after tests. The words were a bad translation.
"I was really upset about this, it's not my style to talk about a team and a driver in this way and I would like to apologise to both Seb and the team for any upset caused.
"But they know me well enough to know this isn't me."
Last week's Monte Carlo Rally runner-up was talking about life at Volkswagen alongside Ogier and how different it was to his experience with Mikko Hirvonen at Ford.
Jari-Matti Latvala Toyota WRC 2017
"When I was at Ford," Latvala explained, "Sebastien Loeb was so dominant.
"Mikko and I had to work together to try to beat him, we couldn't do it on our own.
"When I went to Volkswagen, it was different. There was nobody there to help me try to beat this new Sebastien.
"When you are in the same team as a four-time world champion, you are alone and I had to fight against him in a different way with a different philosophy.
"This was what I was saying."
Latvala admitted the way of working at Toyota was more reminiscent of Ford, adding: "Now I am back working with Juho [Hanninen] and the two of us are working to try to beat Ogier. It's more like Ford again."
Yep, 0.64s/km was the actual final difference, but it doesn’t seem to be a very accurate number. For instance: it takes the 43s that Ogier spent on SS3 ditch. Without that time the difference immediately rise to 0.76. Some interesting data came from the dry SS13, 14 and 15. In those, Breen lost 0.72 (to Evans), 0.85 (Sordo) and 0.7 (Lefebvre), at a time he was trying to keep 4th place. Even considering eventual slightly different tyre choices, these are probably the more reliable numbers on the current time difference between ’16 and ’17 cars. Btw, at the end of all those stages Breen comment was always the same: ‘the most the stage is dry, the harder is to keep new cars pace’.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
Hoping there's Finnish chemistry to back him up like with Mikko :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
You exaggerate, it is even less than 0.6 s/km, but rounded is closer to 0.6 than 0.59. Anyway don't take Ogier's loss and Evans performance very seriously, Breen is nowhere near their experience in WRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
You can look at ewrc results page to see I'm not exagerating. Probaly you forgot to take off SS1 and SS16 kms, both cancelled, in your calculations.
http://www.ewrc-results.com/results....nte-Carlo-2017
And if we take off the 43s Ogier lost on SS3, the difference rise to 0.76, much closer to reality.
your mistake is that you compare faster 2017 wrc driver with Breen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
Breen is not the fastest driver with 2016 car you can have.
So you cant have a ''worthy'' number sec/km
We have to wait for next rallies.
You’re obviously not paying attention and I’m not mistaken: someone else posted the overall difference between Ogier and Breen. I’ve said that difference it’s not accurate because it takes the 43s Ogier lost in SS3. Besides, I’ve mentioned that the most reliable differences between '16 and '17 cars on this rally come from dry SS13, 14 and 15, were Breen lost time to Evans, Sordo and Lefebvre, at a time he was trying to save 4th place.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Wait until the end of the season to make a valid comparison; 1 event, and such a specialised one as the Monte is unwise, and pretty inaccurate.
Yeah I did posted this comparison. But wasn't me speculating before season start for insane differences like 1.5 - 2 seconds per km. Come back to earth for awhile.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
Jesus, no one’s saying that the difference won't change during season. Obviously it'll, eventually attending much bigger numbers on last season rallys. But that shouldn't unable anyone to get a first indication already from MC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Archie Gillaine
Honestly, this "MC doesn't mean anything" and "we've got to wait for Mexico" are crappy sound bytes. All events counts and they’ll be take into consideration for the season evolution. Otherwise, teams should be testing and developing their cars until April or May and only then WRC season should be initiated...
PS: stefan, I've mentioned the difference would be 1s at the start of the season, getting close to 2s at the end. There's still plenty of time to see if I was right and I'll be the first one to admit if I wasn't. Still, the acurate figure on this MC seems to be much more closer to 0.75 than the 0.6 you've mentioned. Now let's talk about anything else before everybody switches to tennis...
Welcome to the forum! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SlyFox
No man. He went sideways into a concrete block and he severed the ball joint on what i believe was the toe adjustment arm (don't quote me on that though... kinda hard to see on video).Quote:
Originally Posted by SlyFox
I think we need to wait until the start of next season before we can make any comparisons about this season. Or maybe until WRC 7 comes out on PS4/XBox, then we can have the real indication of the speed difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
Split the rim as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by itix
Every driver, including Breen, has tested the 2017 cars for the best part of last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper
The only difference is that Latvala & Ogier had to change teams and had therefore much less time testing their NEW CARS. Especially Ogier, since he only did 5 days, 1 short on gravel, 2 on snow and 2 on asphalt in Monte conditions.
Latvala on the other hand could test way more, because Toyota didn't have any testing limitations.
All this means that Ogier had the least experience in his 2017 car of all the drivers. ;)