Mobile phones & tablets thread

Jobs' presentation was full of distorted statistics.

Only 0.55% of people complained, apparently, a tiny amount of disatisfied customers. Erm, that's the percentage who phoned Apple - and who does that in this day and age?

Then he demonstrated that a Blackberry can drop signal bars - but it's already been demonstrated that signal bars alone are a hopeless way of measuring performance. Indeed Apple themselves had to release a software update to correct the way their own signal bars were displayed. Independent tests showed that the iPhone 4 was by far the worst offender of any smartphone.

And the statistic from AT&T about dropped calls only applied to voice calls - when a lot of people have been complaining about dropped or slow data connections and no figures were given.

Again, none of this is particularly a problem, but it's been handled so badly in an attempt to fudge the issue. All those nauseating slides and talk about how much Apple "love" every customer, when clearly they hold them in contempt.

The solution: a free case - not even a nice Apple branded one - which from my time in managing phone stores I'll tell you certainly costs less than $1 to manufacture, which really shouldn't be necessary.

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Originally Posted by race aficionado

I own an iPhone 3GS - I didn't by the 3G waiting for the next version as to avoid the sometimes unavoidable technical quirks that come with new technology.

I use this "technique' with every bit of computer technology that I own.

I wont buy a new generation iPhone 4 because of the same reasons - I'll wait for the next installment that will come next summer.

As for the current antenna issue, Steve Jobs is tackling it in what I think is a very appropriate and responsible way.


This is the latest out of the iPhone camp:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...071606132.html

Sorry Daniel, the empire is not crashing down.
;)


:s mokin:

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What a load of crap.

Apple have built a product which is clearly and obviously flawed and they should recall it.

Nokia and RIM have fired shots back at Apple
http://www.dailytech.com/Nokia+RIM+R...ticle19067.htm

Nokia said this

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Antenna design is a complex subject and has been a core competence at Nokia for decades, across hundreds of phone models. Nokia was the pioneer in internal antennas; the Nokia 8810, launched in 1998, was the first commercial phone with this feature. Nokia has invested thousands of man hours in studying human behavior, including how people hold their phones for calls, music playing, web browsing and so on. As you would expect from a company focused on connecting people, we prioritize antenna performance over physical design if they are ever in conflict. In general, antenna performance of a mobile device/phone may be affected with a tight grip, depending on how the device is held. That’s why Nokia designs our phones to ensure acceptable performance in all real life cases, for example when the phone is held in either hand. Nokia has invested thousands of man hours in studying how people hold their phones and allows for this in designs, for example by having antennas both at the top and bottom of the phone and by careful selection of materials and their use in the mechanical design.

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Funny how Nokia who aren't regarded as designmeisters like Apple, actually take the time to look how people will hold their phones and design their phones appropriately. What a load of ****. Apple have designed a product which is fundamentally faulty and rather than just admit it they've said that everyone has the same problem when clearly they don't. I know of 2 people at work who had iPhones and have recently bought other phones now that their contracts are up purely because of the way Apple has lied about this issue. No one likes a bad product, but mistakes can and do happen and what really matters to people is how the company takes responsibility for its mistakes and Apple hasn't done that.

The two antennae get shorted together when you hold the phone which causes the signal to DIE. You can bang on about how Apple cares about its customers because it wants to give them a crappy $1 piece of plastic to make up for bad design, you can try and make it sound like this problem is widespread but at the end of the day the iPhone 4 drops its signal when you HOLD it. When you HOLD it ffs? It's a handheld device for petes sake!

The Empire won't crumble, you're right, because like all religions people don't want to criticise their messiah or their god because having something to believe in makes them feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

As always I'll be sticking with my Nokia's (or if Windows Phone 7 is good, an HTC) and homebuilt PC's despite the fact that they lack the supposed cool factor and faux magic that having a snake oil salesman like Jobs launching them onto unsuspecting saps give them.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

...or if Windows Phone 7 is good...

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It's not looking positive:

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The as-yet unreleased Windows Phone 7 is a "waste of time and money", a "disaster" that Microsoft should kill as soon as possible. So says Galen Gruman of Infoworld, who has watched an in-depth demonstration of the new phone software at Microsoft's Worldwide Partners Conference which has been going on all week at the company's headquarters in Redmond, Washington.

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:s

Source and full story: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...disaster-claim

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Originally Posted by Daniel

The two antennae get shorted together when you hold the phone which causes the signal to DIE.

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I don't deny it's an issue, but you're being a tad over dramatic here? If you hold the phone the signal goes down, but it's not like it instantly disappears completely the second you hold it in your hand.

Would I like it if it didn't to that? Yes! Am I going to ditch my iPhone and get a different model, No way!

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

It's not looking positive:



:s

Source and full story: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...disaster-claim

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That's disappointing... While they've had their issues, mostly due to poor hardware design, I've always been a fan of Window Mobile based phones and was hoping this would be a serious contender.

It does seem as though the design is rather strange, although it would be good to have something which isn't just a straight iPhone copy in terms of the UI. But there is a reason there are so many copies out there, in that it works! Of course I must point out at this point that the core of the iPhone UI, namely the apps list etc is itself directly lifted from Symbian!

Strange, I've heard a lot of good stuff about windows phone 7. I'm still going to wait and see. I would be disappointed if the best replacement for my e71 was an e72.......

Mark, it's a major flaw. Would you be happy if you cars engine cut out due to bad design if you touched the indicator stalk whilst touching the horn? It's just fundamental bad design on a handheld product and the least apple could do is admit to making a mistake rather than pretending everyone has the same issue.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Mark, it's a major flaw. Would you be happy if you cars engine cut out due to bad design if you touched the indicator stalk whilst touching the horn? It's just fundamental bad design on a handheld product and the least apple could do is admit to making a mistake rather than pretending everyone has the same issue.

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I agree that it's a shocking flaw to have and has been dealt with terribly, but it's not like Apple are the only ones guilty of this sort of thing.

You moan and moan about Apple stuff, e.g not having Flash (which is ridiculous and limits their products a lot) but Microsoft have done similar things. The xBox 360 has only just been released with inbuilt wireless, the console will probably be on it's way out in a few years and not having wireless for so long is awful. Microsoft also make you pay for Live subscription (which is nearly impossible to cancel too) and consoles were ruined by RROD for ages (possibly still are?)

Besides which I read somewhere that the problem largely affects left-handed people so it's only really a problem for freaks :D :p :

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Originally Posted by Mr Jan Yeo

I agree that it's a shocking flaw to have and has been dealt with terribly, but it's not like Apple are the only ones guilty of this sort of thing.

You moan and moan about Apple stuff, e.g not having Flash (which is ridiculous and limits their products a lot) but Microsoft have done similar things. The xBox 360 has only just been released with inbuilt wireless, the console will probably be on it's way out in a few years and not having wireless for so long is awful. Microsoft also make you pay for Live subscription (which is nearly impossible to cancel too) and consoles were ruined by RROD for ages (possibly still are?)

Besides which I read somewhere that the problem largely affects left-handed people so it's only really a problem for freaks :D :p :

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Freaks, hey!! I was told that left handers are the Master race...... ;)

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Originally Posted by Mr Jan Yeo

Besides which I read somewhere that the problem largely affects left-handed people so it's only really a problem for freaks :D :p :

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I'm having to make calls holding the phone in my right hand, it's not natural :p

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Mark, it's a major flaw.

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Agreed. But you are saying that if you merely touch the phone the signal immediately dies. I can tell you as someone who uses an iPhone 4 every day, that's wide of the mark.

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Originally Posted by Mark

Agreed. But you are saying that if you merely touch the phone the signal immediately dies. I can tell you as someone who uses an iPhone 4 every day, that's wide of the mark.

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Don't let personal experience get in the way of the facts, Mark ;) :p :

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Strange, I've heard a lot of good stuff about windows phone 7. I'm still going to wait and see. I would be disappointed if the best replacement for my e71 was an e72.......

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http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2010/07/...ows-phone-7-2/

That gives a mostly positive review. There's still a lot of work for Microsoft to do, however.

I'm not one of those people who buys an iPhone and then thinks it's the most perfect thing ever and will never buy anything else, I'd be happy if my next phone is a WM7 or Android phone.

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Originally Posted by Mr Jan Yeo

Don't let personal experience get in the way of the facts, Mark ;) :p :

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I like that!
:up:

http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/01/bes...ntent=My+Yahoo

Very funny video about the iPhone. Watch the rebuttal video too that should come up in the related videos
section.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD...=youtube_gdata

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Originally Posted by Daniel

What a load of crap.

Apple have built a product which is clearly and obviously flawed and they should recall it.

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Aren't they offering to give buyers their money back? If people aren't happy with the product, all they have to do is take it back. In a recall situation, you may or may not get a refund.

There was an interesting piece on the Today programme this morning (around 6:22am if you want to check iPlayer). It interviewed a iPhone app developer, who was doing it for a living.

He was saying that he doesn't particularly care what platform his apps end up on. But you have to consider that Apple holds around an 80% market share for apps. Plus the important fact that you're basically writing for only one set of hardware i.e. the iPhone and older versions of same. But with Android there are currently around 60 different handsets on the market and getting your app to work with all of them, or even a decent subset of them is much more difficult.

So google have a challenge on their hands to presuade software developers that their platform is the way to go. However it's not impossible, Microsoft managed to conqueor the desktop market while getting other people to manufacturer a wide range of different hardware.

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Originally Posted by Mark

There was an interesting piece on the Today programme this morning (around 6:22am if you want to check iPlayer). It interviewed a iPhone app developer, who was doing it for a living.

He was saying that he doesn't particularly care what platform his apps end up on. But you have to consider that Apple holds around an 80% market share for apps. Plus the important fact that you're basically writing for only one set of hardware i.e. the iPhone and older versions of same. But with Android there are currently around 60 different handsets on the market and getting your app to work with all of them, or even a decent subset of them is much more difficult.

So google have a challenge on their hands to presuade software developers that their platform is the way to go. However it's not impossible, Microsoft managed to conqueor the desktop market while getting other people to manufacturer a wide range of different hardware.

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That's one way in which Windows Phone 7 is promising, they have strict hardware requirements. There is certainly something to be said for locking the hardware down to specific subsets.

They'll have learned that from Vista, which in its early days was often bundled with hideously slow PCs, leading people to wrongly believe the OS was sluggish.

I'm thinking of selling my MacBook, am I mad? I'm told I am....

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

They'll have learned that from Vista, which in its early days was often bundled with hideously slow PCs, leading people to wrongly believe the OS was sluggish.

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Yeah. Tbh you'd have to try pretty hard these days to buy a PC that wasn't capable of running Vista or 7 well. We shall see though :) I do wonder if Microsoft are just going to can Windows Phone 7 like they have so many promising things recently. RIP Courier :(

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Yeah. Tbh you'd have to try pretty hard these days to buy a PC that wasn't capable of running Vista or 7 well. We shall see though :) I do wonder if Microsoft are just going to can Windows Phone 7 like they have so many promising things recently. RIP Courier :(

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But didn't they can their other phones so that they could concentrate on WM7?

Yes. But who knows what they're thinkin or what they're going to do.

Nokia's N8 looks like it might be interesting, and if I hadn't been put right off Nokia's by the N97 I might have been looking at getting one of these. But the fact remains that it still uses Symbian and looks like a poor imitation of the iPhone -- of course there are many ways in which it is superior!

But they do seem to have pushed out another iPhone clone which doesn't quite match up,, whereas what they should be doing is releasing something so extraordinary it makes the iPhone look stupid! But I can't see that happening any time soon.

Article on the BBC about the current smartphone wars http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereport...e_for_min.html

Personaly I'm not going to buy an N8. My N95 was OK but all the N series devices seem to be half baked and just seem to play the "more memory, more MP in the camera sensor to suck in people who think more is better" game....

When I buy a phone I want substance and not flashyness and my E71 is exactly that. It does email well, it does texting well, it does phonecalls well, it's got a decent facebook app too, it interfaces with my car well and it's also bloody well put together unlike the Blackberrys that people complain about here at work! To me these features are more important than a flashy screen and apps which to be fair most people probably wouldn't miss if they weren't there. Other than the fact that I've scratched the screen up a little in the last couple of months and the battery is not as strong as when it's new I'd happily continue on with my E71 :)

A good read about the current situation at Nokia http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07...nifesto_risku/

I don't really follow Nokia, but I saw a headline last week on Bloomberg that Nokia's CEO was in danger of being fired. Apparently investors aren't happy that profits are not what they should be based on the volumes.

Like I said, I don't follow Nokia. But is Nokia beginning to suffer the same fate as Sony did several years ago: market leader with big volumes, and then they get lazy and fall behind?

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Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

I don't really follow Nokia, but I saw a headline last week on Bloomberg that Nokia's CEO was in danger of being fired. Apparently investors aren't happy that profits are not what they should be based on the volumes.

Like I said, I don't follow Nokia. But is Nokia beginning to suffer the same fate as Sony did several years ago: market leader with big volumes, and then they get lazy and fall behind?

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Nokia's problem seems to be the North American market, they've lost a lot of market share there. I don't think they are lazy, their phones have features like no other but Iphone etc. are easier to use. My N97 Mini, for example, is an excellent phone but it's not that easy to use it if you don't know what you're doing.

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Originally Posted by Mark

A good read about the current situation at Nokia http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07...nifesto_risku/

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And it's all so true what Risku is writing about Nokia :dozey:

Samsung has come out with what is the iPad's first realistic competitor and sensibly it uses the Android operating system.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11163687

Apple have just released new versions of the iPod touch, iPod Nano and iPod Shuffle.

The touch, unsurprisingly looks just like the iPhone 4 except it's got a back more reminiscent of the 3GS. It also has a 64GB version but at any eye wateringly expensive £329. The 8GB version is £189 - still expensive when you compare it to the traditional iPods, I paid £140 for Karens 80GB unit! But of course it's basically an iPhone 4 without a phone, so it's much more than a music player.

The iPod Nano now has a touch screen too - £160 for the 16GB version
And the new shuffle is £40 for 2GB.

I've been wanting one of these devices for a long while. When rumors of a tablet began surfacing last year, I waited to see what that was about. Plus I really wanted/needed a camera. Now with the 4th gen iPod Touch, Apple has met all of my needs. It has a rear facing camera... not a great one, but I won't be taking art photos with it anyway. And someone told me that there is some sort of Skype app where you can use your own phone number for about $15/month over WiFi. It would be nice if you could buy a wireless plan, but most everywhere I'll be has free wireless, so no big deal. So yeah, you basically have an iPhone 4 (only thinner!), but without the $100+ monthly fees to AT&T (which is horrible in my area).

I am very happy. This is great news! I was going to order one through the Apple store. But I got an alert from Amazon that they are selling the new one for $383.99 - Apple is selling theirs (engraved) for $399 and I believe I'd have to pay tax if I order from Apple.

Hey Mark, £329 is about $507. :eek: Is there something different about the model you get in the UK?

No. It's always been the case that we pay more for everything in the UK.

Even $399 for iPad is a daylight robbery imho :D

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Originally Posted by Mark

No. It's always been the case that we pay more for everything in the UK.

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Something I'm curious about: what would happen if you ordered an iPod Touch from Amazon's U.S. site?

I hate Apple and in particular the iPod Touch.
I spent 4 hours yesterday trying to upgrade donkito's os to 4.02:
*Backup music with non-Apple 15$ Software... check (I learnt this was necessary the hard way about a year ago when I had to rebuy my legally bought albums after the previous OS update crashed)
*Backup apps with itunes... check (or so I thought!)
*Backup ipod... check
*New OS Installed... check

All done? Yes, apart from the game status. A year of gaming down the drain. A :bigcry: for donkito and a frustrated :mad: for me. I don't like feeling like an incompetent IT-donkey :dozey:
So much for either user-friendly 1-click backups or do-it-yourself drag-and- drop... Apple iPod and itunes offer neither :down:

It's pretty cool when it works, but if I get one for myself it won't be apple.

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Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

Something I'm curious about: what would happen if you ordered an iPod Touch from Amazon's U.S. site?

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You'd have to pay UK VAT (sales tax) on it when it's imported into the UK.

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Originally Posted by Mark

You'd have to pay UK VAT (sales tax) on it when it's imported into the UK.

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They get you one way or another, eh? That's one of the reasons that I ordered from Amazon and not the Apple site or Best Buy: state sales tax - if we had a national sales tax, they'd have me too. Amazon (for some reason) is selling the Touch cheaper than most anyone else, but they also don't charge sales tax in my state. Altogether I saved about $35 (8% +/-), what with the cheaper price, free shipping and no sales tax.

Another question: if you bought a "used" (actually new) product through a private seller on Ebay and they shipped it directly to you, are you supposed to declare it to a tax body and pony up some pounds for the VAT? And if you don't, are you technically breaking the law?

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Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

Another question: if you bought a "used" (actually new) product through a private seller on Ebay and they shipped it directly to you, are you supposed to declare it to a tax body and pony up some pounds for the VAT? And if you don't, are you technically breaking the law?

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If you import a good into the EU, you have to pay VAT.