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Oh come on, we are not talking about 20kph differences. We are talking about a difference of a few kphQuote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Badoer was always very highly rated for his test driving abilities and was consistant enough to give good data. Test driving is not about the speed, it is much more about consistancy.
As a racer he never was anything good, as a tester, he was brilliant from all the info we have on him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinho
OK I was exaggerating. My bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
His lap times were all over the place today, and after 2 race distances on this track he was still as far from Kimi as he was after FP2 on Friday, which is what worries me most as it means he might have reached his best already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
He was getting a bit better as the race went on.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Lets hope he will be within 1,5 seconds (!!!) of Kimi at spa.
The whole field is withing 1 second these days so 1.5 seconds is way to much of a gap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
I hope we won't see another Ferrari propping up the time sheets in qualifying and race on driver merit again.
I hope he stays in the car for Spa. If he doesn't prove to me that he can at least race competitively against a crop of midfield, then he should be replaced immediately. He has experience at Spa. It's been part of the calendar in every season of his racing career. The familiarity of the track should come back to him after Friday practice if he has what it takes to be an F1 driver these days. Otherwise, he should go back to his role as a tester.
For those who doubt his testing abilities: Do you really think Ferrari would hold onto him for almost 10 years if he wasn't providing them with any data? I know he's Italian. I know Ferrari have more sentimental attachments than other teams. But they're not idiots, and I don't believe they would hold onto a driver if he wasn't doing his job (i.e. providing data from testing.)
:eek: Is that you Luca?! (LdM) :p :Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy Cummins
Apparently we are in for another treat of comedy in a week's time. :\
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77936Quote:
Originally Posted by Domenicali
I start to believe that Stefano is way to 'calm' for a F1 team boss.
Instead of simply talking I suggest checking the times:
FP 1:
Raikkonen 1.43.384
Badoer 1.45.840
Big gap, +2.5
FP 2:
Raikkonen 1.40.7
Badoer 1.42.0 - +1.7
FP 3
Raikkonen 1.40.2
Badoer 1.42.1 + 1.9
Qualy 1
Raikkonen 1.38.8
Badoer 1.41.4 + 2.8 - really bad
Yet today:
Raikkonen 1.39.2
Badoer 1.40.5 +1.3
The gap is becoming narrower. I am not saying that Luca is becoming worthy of the place in Ferrari, but he achieved better with each passing day, so maybe he is right in what he says and it is right to wait till Spa. However, this is if you want to be fair and if you like him (as Ferrari and I obviously do). If you are pragmatic, you will get Bourdais.
In fairness, Ferrari didn't have long after Schu pulled out to find a replacement. It's easy to say you should put Bourdais, Piquet in the car but Ferrari also have to sort out contracts etc etc. Putting Badoer in for some stability for a couple of races, to a team that is probably still somewhat shaken up by the temporary loss of Massa, isn't a totally stupid idea.
Yes, he's slow, but he's also a temporary measure - I still expect someone else in the seat for Monza though.
Wont happen. As Spa is Kimis track the difference will be 2.5 secs. Put LucaDM behind the wheel, its a better pr stunt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
No he isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by F1boat
In fact he's been as close in FP2 as in the race, it's just that you didn't get the maths right.
He was 1.3 seconds/lap slower Friday after 3 hours of testing and he is exactly as bad after FP3 + Q + a full race! :\
:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dzeidzei
10 days was more than enough and Domenicali was going to get Fisi but LdM chose Badoer, for whatever stupid reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by christophulus
Sorry about the Math, I was never good :) However, Luca's best time was achieved in the race, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Badoer will be in the car at Spa and the only way to judge is to wait and see what he does there.
Valencia is history and not relevant for Spa.
Of course he will not be competitive with Kimi - if he was then THAT would be difficult to understand.
Valenica is certainly not relevant, given that it was a track Luca never drove before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Devote
Indeed, he won't beat Kimi. I doubt he'll even score a point. But I'll sig bet that Luca will be less than 1.3sec off the pace.
Badoer also racing at Spa? :eek: Wow, just wow!!
Anyway, the "positive" side is that at least this Badoer stuff confirms that racing in modern hi-tech F1 is not too easy like it has been claimed throughout many years. :D And all those Grosjeans and Alguersuaris are actually quite well-prepared rookies and not some random people to jump into F1 to be at reasonable pace straightaway.
I suspect the gap will be at least 2-3 seconds. Spa is a longer circuit than Valencia and it's also more demanding for drivers (known as "drivers circuit") with its fast corners (how much will Luca lift in Eau Rouge?).Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy Cummins
Besides this... I'm not sure, but probably Badoer hasn't driven at Spa for 10 years any more, so I wonder, how much of a use his past experience is there.
Because Fisi was under contract?Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
I don't know for sure, I'm just suggesting that a bit of stability might be welcome within the team. No point dragging Fisi away from Force India if (*IF*) Massa was going to be OK within a couple of races, which now looks very unlikely.
Yes, but as you can see others also improved constantly during the week end, most probably due to the track surface rubbering in and offering better grip.Quote:
Originally Posted by F1boat
Fisi is reported to be looking to be Ferrari's 3rd driver next season and Domenicali was in contact with him and FI, who ow money to Ferrari for the past engine contracts.Quote:
Originally Posted by christophulus
All that was needed could have been done in a couple days at most.
Spa is longer, I guess I didn't consider that. But even so, the laps are only about 4 secs longer than in Valencia. Its most certainly a drivers circuit but Luca has driven it 5 times in the past. He knows about the track, knows that you can go practically flat through Eau Rouge etc. This experience is valuable. The track has changed only slightly since he used to race there so it should still be fresh in his mind. I can accept that he may be 1.3-1.5 secs off Kimi (given the longer track) but 3 secs if a bit much. Unless of course he has indeed lost it :sQuote:
Originally Posted by jens
Right, even though it's my birthday today and I'm in a good mood, I really have to rant about some of these comments in this thread, mainly by one Ferrari supporter in particular.
Ok, Grosjean and Alguersuari beat Luca all weekend. As the commentators said today, both of them have raced in the last 4 weeks, Alguersuari even raced F. Renault during the break from F1. Luca hasn't driven an F1 car since last year.
He got better as every session went on. His real problem was getting up to speed, hence his poor qualifying. His fastest race lap was decent, especially considering Kimi usually does a couple of very fast laps in the grand prix.
Luca got a good start, made up 6 places, was on pace with the Toro Rosso of Alguersuari for most of the race, and finished the Grand Prix. Good effort.
Yes, he spun off twice and let Grosjean by in the pitlane (probably just a misjudgement or a panicky moment), but he kept out of trouble. Without the spins he would probably have beaten Alguersuari.
Also, someone hit him from behind at the start which can't have helped the car's balance.
Now to his abilities, of which I think Ioan especially has been disgusting in his criticism of. He did a test with M. Schumacher a year or two ago, in which he was only 0.2 behind the great man. In history he has always been close to the pace of Rubens, Michael and even Felipe, within a tenth or two.
There is no way in hell that Luca is a bad driver. I think all he needs are some tips in driving the 2009 car, maybe from Kimi or Felipe. He wasn't pushing very hard, and nobody does when they don't even know the limits of their machine.
I agree, he was slow this weekend, and on board with him you could see that, however I'm CONVINCED he will do much better in Spa-Francorchamps. He's raced there 3 or 4 times I think in F1, he'll know the circuit, and he'll be able to push with confidence I'm sure.
I think he did well considering he's basically been cold with regards to driving all year, and in Spa I reckon he'll only be 0.5 away from Kimi.
Ioan I'm disgusted that you can doubt someone's contribution to a team over TEN YEARS, disregarding how highly rated he has been with Schumi, Brawn, Todt and others, just because of a poor performance in a race in which he had about 5 days to prepare for.
You compare him to Yoong and Ide, well Ide lasted 4 races before he was booted for dangerous driving, and it took Yoong 2 seasons to get within 1.0 seconds of his team-mates (Alonso and Webber).
Luca was extremely rusty and unfamiliar with the car and track (at least Yoong I think had driven some of the F1 tracks before), and yet he only ended up 1.3 down. Not to mention his unfamiliarity with KERS too.
Ferrari fans should be supporting such a loyal member of their team instead of kicking him when he's already struggling.
10 years ago!Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy Cummins
Hopefully his memory is better than his driving skills! :laugh:
By your, very low, standards maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by woody2goody
You don't forget these things overnight. I don't know about you Ioan, but when you're so engrossed in something for a time in your life, that sticks with you right to the grave. Sure, it will take a few laps to get into the swing of things, but it will become familiar again. Whereas in Valencia, there was no history to dig up. It was all learning.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
For the situation. It has nothing to do with me. believe me, I want Ferrari's stand in to do really well, I enjoy when a driver steps in and performs, but cast your mind back to when Marc Gene stepped in for R. Schumacher. He was testing every other week for Williams.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
I do agree with people when they say Gene should be in the car, but I think you should judge Luca after Spa, and maybe Monza, and if he's still as bad, then i'll agree with you.
Until Massa comes back, or someone else takes the drive, you should support him 100%.
10 years is not overnight in my book. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy Cummins
You Badoer apologists are really cracking me up, keep them coming, at least we won't be bored until next Friday when he starts the clown number again.
Or even when Rubens did his first starts with Honda, he was nowhere near Button...Quote:
Originally Posted by woody2goody
Also, Piquet was 1.3 behind Alonso once or twice I'm sure in qualifying...Quote:
Originally Posted by F1boat
To me is bizarre to ridicule every reason for Luca's misfortune and to excuse everything little he achieved. This is open malice, not concern from a fan to his favorite team.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
JMO.
one thing i can think of - i would assume that Badoer is very much unfamiliar with the KERs in that car, and how to get the best from it, especially when he's still learning the track and the cars characteristics - i'd imagine Kimi is using it to best advantage for the full 8(?) seconds a lap every lap, whilst Badoer is probably too busy remembering which way to go to use it properly and get the best out of it.
still, he should have got that somewhere close even then, and he was still shocking, but it could account for a couple of tenths of the gap, the rest i'll put down to pure lack of ability
What are you talking about? He achieved nothing!Quote:
Originally Posted by F1boat
He even LET the cars overtake him by going of the way, in the pit lane. :rotflmao:
Kers is used 6.6 seconds a lap and on a track with very long straights it can account for 0.2 - 0.3 seconds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinho
I doubt that Badoer didn't remember to use it at least on the start finish line.
One may laugh at Badoer now, but yes, we really should NOT diminish his past accomplishments (like doubting his testing skills, etc).
About being race driver, Badoer was in F1 in the 90's for several seasons and he wasn't exactly a useless driver back then - he was driving very uncompetitive machineries and actually did a respectable job in them, putting in some nice drives. What we can say about current situation, is that Luca is probably well past his prime now. But it doesn't mean he was that hopeless throughout his career.
What can be diminished in getting NO points in 48 races?!Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
Strangely enough none of the 'better team' thought he was good enough, only the likes of Forti and Minardi ever considering him for a race seat until 2 weeks ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
Yes, he probably wasn't good enough to make a serious impact in F1, but he was nonetheless better back then than he is now.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Like Nurburgring 1999. Luca was also F3000 champion in 1992, I learned today :)Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
That's obvious, but also history and it doesn't help with him being the slowest ever driver with hundreds of thousands of kilometers in a F1 car.Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
You're starting to believe that? I believed that as soon as Ron Dennis said he liked Domencali.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
I don't want the Ferrari team boss to be liked or to be likeable. I want him to out-tw@t all the other tw@ts.
There isn't enough feck-you attitude in Maranello nowadays.