Printable View
Massa did well last season at Monza and this season in China (as long as the engine kept going) in the rain.Quote:
Originally Posted by fousto
He also did well back in 2003 (I think) in the US GP on a wet track.
Just because he had a poor race in Silverstone in 2008 it doesn't mean it's always like that, look at Alonso in Japan 2007 he hit the wall and Raikkonen last season as Spa did the same.
Massa was supreme and has been performing like a real top ace this year. It's quite extraordinary that a driver of his age and experience still keeps improving every year. Every season it's said that now "this is his level, these are his weaknesses" and some have added he'll never become a champ or whatever. :p : But it looks like there is no stopping him. His race pace has been downplayed in the past, but now he has no trouble in matching or beating Räikkönen's race pace, regardless of the circuit. Besides that - no inconsistencies occur in Massa's performances from race-to-race.
Alonso would be a perfect benchmark for the new improved Massa - if Felipe beats the driver, who many consider as the most complete one on the grid, FM will establish himself as one of the true greats on the grid. Kimi as a benchmark has been beaten, a new and stronger one is needed for a new judgement. :p :
Alas it looks like the 'battle' for P3 in WCC is over - it will be an easy walk for Ferrari.
His best wet weather performance was Brazil 2008, easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Massa didn't/hasn't displaced Kimi. if Kimi goes, it's due to many things, not Felipe.Quote:
Originally Posted by fousto
I dont know, when the #2 driver starts regulary beating the #1 driver the way Massa has for the last 14 months or so, it starts getting into your head.Quote:
Originally Posted by DexDexter
Crap comparisons.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Massa span off 7 times at Silverstone who was going nowhere except backwards which is amateur stuff compared to Alonso who was trying to keep up with Hamilton; even Raikkonen had a good excuse because he desperately wanted to win at Spa and being on the limit means your more vunerable to mistakes.
Oh and before calling me a Massa-hater (again) I completely agree with Jens. I'm constantly amazed how Massa is like good wine, improving better with age.
He spun 5 times at Silverstone last year not 7 and Hamilton spun 4 times this year. It happens to the best of them on occaison.Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
Massa is a pleasant surprise. When they announced he was replacing Barrichello I was rather nonplussed. Fast forward 3 seasons and I'm looking forward to a Massa/Alonso lineup. Raikkonen has been a flash in the pan. He'll always have the respect of being a Ferrari world champion but his time at Maranello will end on a disappointing note. Sad really because he could be so bloody fast at times.
I think - in fairness to Massa, the Silverstone thing was more car setup than poor driving. As we saw with Lewis this year in the rain - if the aero stalls - round and round you go......Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
Indeed, think of all those times he started from the back of the grid due to engine failure in qually/practice and he made his way to the front to win....Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkmoon
But the difference between GBR'08 and CHN '09 is that Hamilton was at least reasonably quick and faster than his team-mate, when he wasn't spinning. And despite spins he still finished 6th. But Massa was just plain slow besides spins and finished a lap behind everyone! Hamilton's drive was far better. I am personally not finding any excuses to that Silverstone'08 - it was an extremely **** drive by all accounts, even Yoong could have fared better.
I watched the entire 2005 Japanese Grand Prix on youtube again fairly recently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkmoon
And I wondered where that fire has gone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkmoon
Sorry but spinning off seven times in one race is hardly acceptable. That makes you a laughing stock, especially when you're a mobile chicane, fighting for WDC.Quote:
http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?T...Allen&id=45624
It’s easy to be critical, as people were of Felipe Massa last year at Silverstone when he spun off seven times.
And to be fair to Lewis with most of his spins in China, he was his typical hot headed self trying to overtake and over doing it.
Yes, it happens to the best I remember Schumi aquaplaned off at the infamous river in Brazil 2003 but I hardly remember Schumi in an ill handling car making a fool of himself by spinning off left, right and centre on his own accord.
Every driver has an off day. Even the greatest drivers had races where they embarrassed themselves. The Silverstone race is one of those days Massa would rather forget.Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
Hell we all have those days at work from time to time. I agree with your wine comment though, he is becoming a rather handy racer :up:
Man I wish I was perfect like you :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
Maybe, but a Spanish bank willing to put zillions of dollars into your team maybe has something to do with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
Err, wasn't that McLaren the fastest car in the field? It doesn't mean his "fire" has gone somewhere as F1 is largely car-dependant. Button and many other drivers have looked supreme in dominant cars as well. Doesn't mean they are worse in inferior cars or that their driving skills are unmatchable in a great car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malllen
No I'm not perfect but people like Schumi and Senna have set the standard.Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
When Schumi made mistakes it wasn't because he ran out of talent.
And he hit the wall like a Piquet Jr. :rotflmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
You're making up crap excuses to a crap performance! :wave:
:D :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
At the end of 2007 I would have preferred Felipe and Kimi to continue the Ferrari partnership till they hang up the boots, now I'm not sure anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkmoon
And heck I even cheered for Kimi back in 2005 when he was driving a McLaren!
Let's not say stupid things.Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
No one, in F1, does mistakes because they ran out of talent. These guys are very good and nowadays there is no such thing like a pay driver anymore. They are all very good drivers and if they make mistakes it isn't because of a lack of talent, it's because of a moment of distraction or because they are trying to overdrive the car.
Right ioan and we call all of the above "Running out of Talent"Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
However what you are probably trying to say is "There are no Flies on F1 drivers"
Just go back to your golf mobile. And take care not to run out of talent.Quote:
Originally Posted by fousto
Massa 2006 goes off in Bahrain, Monaco qualy (outlap, IIRC) - unforced errorsQuote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Last year he span off at Adelaide on the first lap of the race, at the first corner; mystery off at Malaysia, another unforced error.
Unforced errors does not equal overdriving or distraction.
Because you say so?!Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
Who said there wasn't overdriving, distraction, an error or even a problem with the car?! None of them being anything extraordinary in motor racing.
To be honest I'm laughing my ass of at your feeble attempts at looking like a knowledgeable fan. :rotflmao:
And what makes you a knowledgable fan, O mighty one?Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Quote:
http://sports.in.msn.com/formulaone/...mentid=1313247
Ferrari spokesman has finally confirmed that Felipe Massa's Sepang spin was caused fundamentally by driver error.
Ferrari spokesman Luca Colajanni said of Massa's Sepang incident last Sunday: "He went slightly on the kerb exiting turn six and therefore the car stalled (aerodynamically). As a consequence, he lost the rear in turn seven and spun," he added.
I didn't even say I am. :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
PS: Why do you need to derail threads with such dribble? Can't you start a thread about how XYZ drivers made errors?! I think ferrari fans would appreciate to be able to talk about Ferrari in here, I certainly would. :rolleyes:
What's the matter, can't handle criticism?Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
I doubt every Ferrari fan/tifosi share the same opinion, I'm sure they'll disagree from time to time. Just as elements within the Republicans disagreed with Bush and those with in Labour disagreed with Blair.
No problems with criticism, if it's done with use of cognitive processes.Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
Massa's mistake in Malaysia wasn't a "random" error, because he was overdriving the car. Why? Because Kimi had pitpassed him and Felipe was trying as hard as hell to try to keep up with him.
A totally unforced error is the spin Schumacher did in USA in 2000 for example. A dominant race lead, got bored, lost concentration, and spun.
And still ended up winning the race! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by jens
Not that this has anything to do with the fact that he made an unforced mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
Kimi has a year left on his contract and he likes his team – so it’s hard to believe that Kimi will leave Ferrari before the time his contract is over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkmoon
If he however will do it, it's possible he does to Rally (driving Fiat? a year or two) or to Brawn (!) - Ross Brawn probably would get him for little money because Ferrari however must pay a greater part of Kimis salary (which said to be app. 30 million euro). So Ross Brawn has a chance to get (not only a team but even a driver who can win the title in a "right" car) almost for free ..
The other thing which is coming in my mind is that: Alonso usually has a first driver position in the team he is driving for and will however never accept a second driver position and I don’t think Felipe do it either – so there is a risk for the same type of conflict Alonso and Lewis had at McLaren if the car will suit better to Felipe than him..
***
So why not sign Vettel to Ferrari to 2011 season. He is a driver for the future.. and hungry to be world driver champion .. and especially in a Ferrari (I think).. and money is not everything … or is it? :)
I think will have to wait and see how this whole story folds, as everything is possible and nothing is sure.
Now that Ferrari has decided to give up on developing the F60 and focus on 2010, I can only hope that for some of the ideas and solutions for next year they will find a way to implement them on the F60 in order to keep the drivers motivated and maybe get a win in the right circumstances.
If not this will be the first season after 16 years that they do not score a win.
Yes, Alesis 2nd place at Monza was Ferrari's best result 1993 but after that has Ferrari at least one win every season.
1994 1 - Gerhard Berger (1) - Jean Alesi (0)
1995 1 - Jean Alesi (1) - Gerhard Berger (0)
1996 3 - Michael Schumacher (3) - Eddie Irvine (0)
1997 5 - Michael Schumacher (5) - Eddie Irvine (0)
1998 6 - Michael Schumacher (6) - Eddie Irvine (0)
1999 6 - Eddie Irvine (4) - Michael Schumacher (2)
2000 10 - Michael Schumacher (9) - Rubens Barrichello (1)
2001 9 - Michael Schumacher (9) - Rubens Barrichello (0)
2002 15 - Michael Schumacher (11) - Rubens Barrichello (4)
2003 8 - Michael Schumacher (6) - Rubens Barrichello (2)
2004 15 - Michael Schumacher (13) - Rubens Barrichello (2)
2005 1 - Michael Schumacher (1) - Rubens Barrichello (0)
2006 7 - Michael Schumacher (7) - Rubens Barrichello (0)
2007 9 - Kimi Raikkonen (6) - Felipe Massa (3)
2008 8 - Felipe Massa (6) - Kimi Raikkonen (2)
2009 ? -
One little correction for 2006:Quote:
Originally Posted by jas123f1
2006 9 - Michael Schumacher (7) - Felipe Massa (2)
I think that when Ferrari say they have stopped developement on the car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ioan
It means something slightly different than other teams.
Metaphorically speaking I compare it with the line by Miracle Max from The Princess Bride that goes something like this:
[youtube]6GrYNaaYSjs&feature=related[/youtube]
B T W
[youtube]LMnCbgaLHww&eurl[/youtube]
Well, I hope they get a victory, but when they say they will concentrate on the 2010 car from now on, IMO it means that they will use ideas from the 2010 project on the F60 but will not lose time searching for developments only meant for the F60.
how can anyone be seriously developing a 2010 car for rules that i am uncertain as to whether they are actually officially and permanently in place?Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
example--pit stops, refueling???