Israel refuses peace negotiations

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daniel

Why not launch airstrikes against the poles. That seems to line up with your current policy.

---

I actually agree with you on this one. They got one over the jews so let them enjoy it, who needs justice?

Yes getting invaded by Germany to start WW2 and then having the Soviet's come through and then have their opressive rule for a few years. The Poles really did well out of the whole deal :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rani

Generalizing people as being brutal and ruthless on an ethnic basis is racist in my book.

I agree. Israel has a historic right to this land, as the ancient Israelites lived in this area on and off for a few thousand years. I think there's a famous book about it, it'd be nice to look that one up.

---

Then you'd better have a word with the Israelis I spoke to. Is it still racist when one Jewish subgroup holds strong views about another Jewish subgroup?

I can't remember the Hebrew word they used for the particular Jewish group they were referring to but I do remember them saying that they were descended from the Jews who had never left Palestine or who had migrated back there and had experience of living both under the Ottomans then the British. You probably know more about who they were referring to. And yes, their views were rather negative.

As for house demolitions take a look at the following.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_d...inian_conflict

It is a fact that house demolitions preceded suicide bombing and yet has done nothing to deter further terrorist attacks on Israel.

As for the Israeli claim to the land, you can't just brush out the millenia or two when the land was mainly settled by the Palestinians and claim sole rights to it.

Israel clearly has a right to exist and in peace with its neighbours. Unlike some of the other posters here I believe the responsibility for the conflict lies equally across both groups and I most certainly don't believe that if Israel were to withdraw from the Occupied Territories terrorism would become a thing of the past as the others insinuate. However as long as Israelis cannot face the darker things being done in their name I suspect the drive for peace on the Israeli side will not be strong enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daniel

Yes getting invaded by Germany to start WW2 and then having the Soviet's come through and then have their opressive rule for a few years. The Poles really did well out of the whole deal :rolleyes:

---

I think he means that the Poles were even more anti-semetic than the Nazis and therefore Israel might be justified in bombing them....

However I do think your comparison between Israel and Nazi Germany is uncalled for. Israel's policies are mainly pre-occupied with self-defense and preserving the safety of its own population however misguided their methods may be. Nazi Germany was plain expansionist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dylan H

Then you'd better have a word with the Israelis I spoke to. Is it still racist when one Jewish subgroup holds strong views about another Jewish subgroup?

---

Yeah it's still racist. I suppose they were Ashkenazim and were talking about Mizrahim which means easterners. It's just as racist as a christian being racist against another christian of a different race.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rani

Yeah they do exist, I think that this kind of attitude is not an Israeli-only trait. These people can be found anywhere in the world in any position from Police officers to managers at fast food restaurants. They certainly do a lot of damage, and I am against this sort of behavior.

---

I never suggested this was a trait solely seen in Israelis. Its the result of conscription where the army has little scope to 'quality control' its recruits. The same effect is seen in many other conflicts involving conscription such as Chechnya or Vietnam.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rani

Those who cheat their way out of enlisting are free to leave any day if they ask me.

---

Then what are your views regarding the religious right, many of whom are subsidised to the eyeballs by government social benefits and who often use religious studies to avoid the draft? Given that the same social group is often the one that is most committed politically to aggressive strategies against both the Palestinians and Israel's Arab neighbours, they are effectively pushing Israel to pay a heavy price yet ensuring that its always someone else's son or daughter in the firing line.

I know that Shinui specifically campaigned about this particular issue but I haven't heard anything about them for quite some time. Where is Israel going on this one?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rani

Where would you send the 6 million who parished from "where they came from"?
Where would you send the eight refugees your country sent to die in November 1942?

---

What did they have to do with the Palestinians?

Jews can live quite safely both in Germany and in Finland these days, there's no compelling reason for them to emigrate to the Middle East.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eki

Jews can live quite safely both in Germany and in Finland these days, there's no compelling reason for them to emigrate to the Middle East.

---

Finns are welcome to live anywhere in the world so there's clearly no compelling reason for them to stay in Finland is there? Maybe the place can be cleared to give the Palestinian displaced somewhere to live of their own.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dylan H

Finns are welcome to live anywhere in the world so there's clearly no compelling reason for them to stay in Finland is there? Maybe the place can be cleared to give the Palestinian displaced somewhere to live of their own.

---

Wouldn't work. Many Palestinians wouldn't be able to live without the fear of indiscriminate shelling or a wall suddenly cutting them off from their job. Perhaps the grass would be just a bit too green.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dylan H

I think he means that the Poles were even more anti-semetic than the Nazis and therefore Israel might be justified in bombing them....

However I do think your comparison between Israel and Nazi Germany is uncalled for. Israel's policies are mainly pre-occupied with self-defense and preserving the safety of its own population however misguided their methods may be. Nazi Germany was plain expansionist.

---

Very true. But still they're persecuting another race of people. It's the complete opposite to what happened to the Japanese. The Japanese had the two terrible A-bombs and though "screw this we're not getting involved in war or military conflicts on a large scale again" whereas Israel is in pole position to empathise with the Palestinians as a race who are being marginalised on the basis of race. Israel isn't rounding palestinians up and gassing them but they're just not helping the situation.

I think to understand why non-German people acted the way they did you need to understand why Hitler singled out the Jews for this treatment and why people weren't unhappy for the Jewish people to be taken out of the large cities. It wasn't because they were the most loved and adored group of religious people. Now quite frankly I can't be bothered to go and kill someone just because I may dislike their race or religion but back before WW2 the Jewish people had obviously made themselves unpopular enough in Europe for people to be complicit in having them rounded up and put into the Ghetto's.

When I was at school we studied the holocaust in History and learnt all about the leadup to the holocaust and what happened and so on. Then we went to a holocaust memorial centre and heard all about the holocaust except for why the Nazi's singled out the Jews for this horrible treatment and I think that's a silly silly thing to do. It's like having a memorial in Hiroshima and talking about how horrible it was and how horrible the USA is but forgetting to say why it happened in the first place.

Now I'll repeat the fact that I don't care for Jews, Muslims, Christians, Sikh's, Buddhists, Atheists and any other religious or non-religious groups we have going. To me they're equally worthless other than perhaps Buddhists who don't go around causing bother for anyone unless they're a repressive Burmese military government of course. I hate white people, black people, green people, purple and red people all as much. We're all equally as useless as each other because we insist on killing each other for no real bloody reason.