What Happens Next?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OWFan19

Because I am mad at Champ Car for running its opperation like a hobbist, then I am an IRL troll.

I had a realiy check this week. I am frustrated with Champ Car. Look at the situation with an open mind and not emotional bond with Champ Car, and the reality looks bad.

My handle is OW Fan, I am an Open Wheel fan. Alex Zanardi was and is my hero. Greg Moore was my hero. I was a CART guy through and through. But this was not what I loved.

---

Well, it wasn't me who suggested that you were a troll. But above, where you seemed to just see ONE screwed up series, I saw two.

I don't disagree with your assessment of the current Champ Car operation. It is a poorly run mess at the moment. Those of us who were CART fans have been told on numerous occasions that this Champ Car is not CART's Champ Car, and has no connection to the old Champ Car. "This is a brand new business!" M'kay. If that's the way it's gonna be, so be it. In high school, a girlfriend broke up with me. Said we needed to see other people. M'kay. I started going out with her sister a few weeks later: younger, cuter, taller, sluttier. :s mokin: So I'm not one to tell someone NOT to choose the lesser of two evils (or the more fun evil :D ). But I still see TWO screwed up series... one just more screwed up than the other right now. Neither is a model of racing success. Before singing Indy's praises, one might wonder if its ratings will bottom out at around 4, or if they will soon sink into the 3's. When you said that Indy was "the largest sporting event in the world", I assume you were speaking about attendance. In terms of commerial value, it used to be one of the biggest. Now it's not even in the Top 10 (Daytona is #4). Is it still bigger (commercially and attendance wise) than anything on the CCWS calendar? Yep, always has been and probably always will be. But the world does not revolve around, and sponsors are not restricted to open wheel racing ONLY. The world is passing us by while these two sad series try to drag each other further into the mud. That is what I meant by irony. It wasn't a dig at you.

Hey Garyshell, chill out. I am not demanding anything from the members of this forum -- especially respect. I also think being entrenched in a cult mentality won't change the world for the better. Cheerleading from either side leaves me cold. I lose respect for anyone who attempts it because I know better. I also have a right to my privacy. Given the very ugly nature of some who I have encountered is this phase of the split, it must be that way. I also think that the fans actually matter far more than people in the industry who consider themselves insiders. This whole Split nightmare would have never happened if TG and CART's managment and the team owners had remembered that fundemental truth back in the first half of the 1990s. Okay, I do know the key people involved on both sides and I sincerely doubt they would do it all again in the same way. But that is history... I am focused on the future. A better future. That starts with thinking about what might be possible and asking the fans what they really want. What should it look like? What comes next?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by heelntoe

Gary, you are clearly the most self absorbed champcar cheerleader there ever was

---

I think,,,,,, you owe Gary,,,,, an apology,,,,,,

:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrJackMiller

I am focused on the future. A better future. That starts with thinking about what might be possible and asking the fans what they really want. What should it look like? What comes next?

---

They want more excitement, without having to bring in contrived gimmicks.

Powerful wingless OW cars that have to rely on hard slicks for mechanical grip will open up more braking areas, more passing opportunities, and more sideways action will work! CCWS hasn't exploited the potential of a control chassis.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

1. Yes, with the appropriate changes I believe CCWS will be very marketable, distinct and unique. It starts with the cars.

---

Boy, here is a big one for me.

I have been involved with a number of technically-oriented industries in my days. And the best lesson I have ever learned is that it DOES NOT start with the equipment. The equipment is never the key. PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS THE KEY. And I believe motorsports is no different whatsoever.

Many, many CCWS fans went into 2007 with this attitude that the DP-01 would be the savior of the series, "The Future of Racing." That, IMO, is a crock. What a short sighted, ignorant statement. Look how 2007 has turned out. Misdirected loyalitites. Misdirected priorities. I give you the 2007 "breakout year" CCWS series as proof.

FORGET ABOUT THE CARS. Forget about the chassis, forget about the engines, forget about the tires. All of those things, in ANY motorsports series, are nothing more than selecting a vendor, something that has to happen in every business in the world every day.

For the same reason, the issues in the IRL won't be resolved in any way by any decision Honda makes. Any leader of vision can take those challenges and overcome them.

Dr. Jack, I don't know WHAT comes next, but I do believe I know how it happens. The series that finally figures out this entire deal is about its people - and the way they will be successfuly marketed - will be the series that survives. It ISN'T about the cars.

Look back at the CART news releases from 1995 - 1998 or so. What a marked contrast. You didn't see Craig or Pook's name mentioned at all. It was all about the drivers. Even the manufacturers then had the wisdom NOT to make it about their chassis, their tires, their engines. They made it about their drivers and their teams.

It was all about marketing the drivers and teams. And it caught the imagination of the racing-enthralled public.

Show me a month's worth of press releases from either series that doesn't mention Tony George, Brian Barnhart, Kevin Kalkhoven, Gerry Forsythe, Paul Gentilozzi, Steve Johnson or Tony Cotman and concentrates on marketing marketable drivers and teams, and I'll let you know What Happens Next.

What do the fans want, Dr. Jack?

They want heros who capture their imagination.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tbyars

Boy, here is a big one for me.

I have been involved with a number of technically-oriented industries in my days. And the best lesson I have ever learned is that it DOES NOT start with the equipment. The equipment is never the key. PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS THE KEY. And I believe motorsports is no different whatsoever.

Many, many CCWS fans went into 2007 with this attitude that the DP-01 would be the savior of the series, "The Future of Racing." That, IMO, is a crock. What a short sighted, ignorant statement. Look how 2007 has turned out. Misdirected loyalitites. Misdirected priorities. I give you the 2007 "breakout year" CCWS series as proof.

FORGET ABOUT THE CARS. Forget about the chassis, forget about the engines, forget about the tires. All of those things, in ANY motorsports series, are nothing more than selecting a vendor, something that has to happen in every business in the world every day.

For the same reason, the issues in the IRL won't be resolved in any way by any decision Honda makes. Any leader of vision can take those challenges and overcome them.

Dr. Jack, I don't know WHAT comes next, but I do believe I know how it happens. The series that finally figures out this entire deal is about its people - and the way they will be successfuly marketed - will be the series that survives. It ISN'T about the cars.

Look back at the CART news releases from 1995 - 1998 or so. What a marked contrast. You didn't see Craig or Pook's name mentioned at all. It was all about the drivers. Even the manufacturers then had the wisdom NOT to make it about their chassis, their tires, their engines. They made it about their drivers and their teams.

It was all about marketing the drivers and teams. And it caught the imagination of the racing-enthralled public.

Show me a month's worth of press releases from either series that doesn't mention Tony George, Brian Barnhart, Kevin Kalkhoven, Gerry Forsythe, Paul Gentilozzi, Steve Johnson or Tony Cotman and concentrates on marketing marketable drivers and teams, and I'll let you know What Happens Next.

What do the fans want, Dr. Jack?

They want heros who capture their imagination.

---

The Panoz doesn't go far enough in addressing a problem that is increasingly plaguing top open wheeler series, and that is the technology taking away from the racing. What I am saying is that a powerful wingless car will be a lot more marketable as it will produce more opportunities for better racing, as I have said. I believe the spectacle and radical uniqueness of the cars WILL result in gaining popularity of the series. The racing media would go wild that an AOW series with powerful cars would remove the wings.

I'm sure there is sponsors out there that would try a series that is unique and spectacular. At the moment it is just another formula series. Money will come from this, and eventually top tier drivers wanting to come to CCWS. And top tier drivers are infinitely more marketable than pay drivers, or seemingly second-rate F1 drivers.
I'm saying that the equipment in this scenario would be the catalyst for change. As well as making the racing better.

I do like the idea of a wingless, powerful car. It is different and it stands as a unique measure of drivng ability is a sea of super downforce generating clone mobiles that make it harder and harder to see driving talent instead of setup talent. A change like this could be a profound shot in the arm if the drivers embraced it as the truest test of pure talent. I also agree about heros being the focus rather than the politics (a wingless car with big HP could help there). That latter subject is the ultimate buzz kill to casual fans. I will be interested to see what the Art Center IndyCar 2011 project is that Gordon Kirby and David Phillips have written about and if and if it has any relevance to this subject. I fear it will be just another empty PR excercise...

What should Champ Car's car be after the DP-1 if there is a ChampCar in 2010?

What happens next?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by garyshell

I have never claimed to be anything except a fan. I am sick and tired of all of these supposed insiders, on BOTH sides, coming here hiding behind a screen name. I participate in all sorts of forums in my own industry, I have never found any reason to hide behind a screen name. I have never found any reason to say anything about my industry that I would not put my own name on. If I am afraid to put my name on it, I don't say it. Period. It's called CREDIBILITY. Look it up.

We have no way to know who amongst these insiders is really on the inside, who really has some dog in the hunt, who has some ax to grind with a previous employer or employee etc. All because none of these "insiders" has enough balls to say who they really are. Anyone can be anyone they claim to be on the internet. None of you hiding behind a screen name has one scintilla of credibility. Get over it. Respect can not be demanded as you all seem to think. It can only be earned. I have never once demanded any credibility here, I have always and will always say I am a fan, an opinionated fan, no more no less. I am not the one coming here claiming to know how this series MUST be run or who's head needs to be on the chopping block next. No it is the "insiders" doing all that. I am just the one here saying the emperors have no clothes. Especially when the emperors aka "insiders" come here and ask for opinions and then lay in wait so they can tell the fans who respond how wrong they are and how only the anointed insiders can possibly know what is right.

Did I ever ONCE say there was no need for a radical change? I've been quite vocal in calling for some radical changes, not in the managment area because I don't pretend to know the specifics of what needs to be done there, but in the cars themselves because I do feel that as a fan of racing for over 50 years, I do know what has made the racing exciting to a fan in the past and what is missing now. Look at some of the other recent threads for that.

By the way, I'm still waiting for all you experts to tell us what is next?

Gary

---

Gary (and sanguin), save your breath. It's a no-win proposition, don't ya know, because you're dealing with self-professed, powerful "insiders" who know so much more than the rest of us peons. Those who are so quick to tell you how powerful and connected they are, but won't man up and reveal their secret identities. Like a certain poster who goes by the name of parts of the foot that I suspect may actually be found to be implanted in his mouth!
This person who has claimed to sit on the board of directors of several major corporations and big-time sponsors - yeah, right. If you're that big and powerful, do you really expect us to believe you'd have time to come argue on these goofy message boards? I could claim to be KK, or GF, or PG, or any other person connected to the series that I want, and since these boards ensure a certain amount of anonymity it would be darn difficult to prove otherwise. If anyone asked too pointed a question I could just clam up and state that I couldn't divulge confidential information, or information that was sensitive to sponsor negotiations, or some other wild excuse. It's a game people play. It's a big reason why these boards have become less enjoyable to read and more insignificant - every thread eventually turns into a "urination competition" (sorry, gotta please the censors!), and there are far too many participants whose main competitive effort is "I'm more in the know than you are because..."
The upside to this is I'm actually getting myself weaned off these message boards a bit! There's a whole lot of better things I can do with my day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrJackMiller

I will be interested to see what the Art Center IndyCar 2011 project is that Gordon Kirby and David Phillips have written about and if and if it has any relevance to this subject. I fear it will be just another empty PR excercise...

---

I agree, its just a piece of paper with nothing behind it. smoke and mirrors.
8 years with the same car,because they have nothing coming down the pike.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrJackMiller

What happens next?

---

I'll bite, but DrJack, I want a quid pro quo.

What happens next? Assuming that Assen is as successful as claimed (65,000 attending on Sunday, waits for the suites), CCWS will continue to be a global series, and focus primarily on venues outside NA. From the article published by MarkC:

Quote:

---

So what is Champ Car's future?.... Is it more international, more non-U.S.?...

"It's called the World Series, Champ Car World Series. We did that on day one," said Kalkhoven.
===========
[KK]: "We've learned that there are other parts of the world, as Formula One departs, that have a great interest."

---

That doesn't mean I think CC will give up NA entirely, but unless/until nascar cycles down, and makes things a more level playing field as far as sponsors and TV packages are concerned, then I think you'll continue to see fewer and fewer NA races. Maybe a 60/40 split in overseas/NA tracks.

Also, I don't see a wingless car, and I don't think the general public would either. See the Hot Rod cover in this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Cars
Is that the idea you're going back to? Or am I wrong? Most people with any idea of racing's history would think they were watching a historic race. How could you differentiate something like the Lotus from what you're proposing?

Although I have an opinion, I don't want to put words in your mouth, so I'll keep my trap shut and wait to hear what you have to say. So I'm asking you: What happens next?