Which rally should they add to the WRC-calendar?

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Originally Posted by Prisoner Monkeys

Whether or not I know anything about a country like Moldova is inconsequential to the point I am trying to make: that the challengesjanvanvurpa presents as being unique to the United States, are not as unique as he makes them out to be.

But for the record, I actually know quite a bit about Moldova. I deliberately chose a country that I was familiar with, but one that other people might not necessarily know too much. That way, if someone said "If you want to hold a rally in Moldova, where are all the officials going to come from?", I could use my knowledge of the country to assess whether or not they had made an argument that fit the condition I set out. So far, that hasn't happened yet.

And you did assume that I don't know anything about Moldova. Why do you think I picked it out of the two-hundred odd countries in this world when I was trying to make a point? It was certainly no coincidence.

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I would say there is more chance of pulling off a WRC event in Moldova than in USA.

Unless they all ignore everything that anybody with direct first hand experience tries to tell them.
Like you have so far.
It is good you know something about Moldova, it can counterbalance what you do not know about little (in rally world terms) poor USA. where you really can say with all honesty: If you are a rally driver, then you are 1 in a million.
Population: 310,000,000. And rally drivers: about 310. or less.

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

Unless they all ignore everything that anybody with direct first hand experience tries to tell them.
Like you have so far.

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This coming from the guy who was making an argument against a rally being possible in America based on something that happened forty years ago. The fact that you presented this as compelling evidence of anything at all makes me question the validity of everything else you have said. I find it hilarious that you seem to think this qualifies as "direct first-hand experience" of rallying, while you have conveniently ignored the way the city I suggested could host a rally already hosts a world-class off-road racing event.

Gee, those Denverites really have no idea know what they're doing. What's eighty-nine world-class events compared to something that was mismanaged forty years ago in Michigan?

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Originally Posted by Prisoner Monkeys

This coming from the guy who was making an argument against a rally being possible in America based on something that happened forty years ago. The fact that you presented this as compelling evidence of anything at all makes me question the validity of everything else you have said. I find it hilarious that you seem to think this qualifies as "direct first-hand experience" of rallying, while you have conveniently ignored the way the city I suggested could host a rally already hosts a world-class off-road racing event.

Gee, those Denverites really have no idea know what they're doing. What's eighty-nine world-class events compared to something that was mismanaged forty years ago in Michigan?

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Whatever your name is, stop being stupid.
I work every single day on rally parts and projects and am in touch email and phone with drivers and event organisers all over USA and Canada.
My expereince is TODAY, this evening and here. Yours we have no idea execpt you like to type nonsense and like to argue.

You fool, I have said there is maybe 15 rallyists in Denver or Colorado, I know virtually every one, and have supplied major parts I build and advice to them on building, motors brakes, suspension and "approach" to the sport.
I have already said taht there are no rallies for hundreds and hundreds of miles--
Nearest is Rally Idaho, 1352 km, or Hundred acre Woods in Salem , MO, also about 1350 km, next is Bemidji Minnesota 1600km then Mt Hood, Oregon, 2060km. Nothing local, no organisers, no volunteers.
Why do you keep blabbering about this? You know nothing of the scene on the ground, not 25 years ago, not today so shut up about rally in Denver and in USA, and talk about what you do know, where ever it is you are--talk about your participation--you do participate in some role we must presume if you are so argumentative.
Or, is your whole involvement in rally arguing on forums?

Again we WERE trying to talk about what events to add to the WRC--which is of course total pub talk, but we weren't talking about hosting closed course off road races in Denver---Off Road IS popular there and there IS a designated off road playground called CORE---and all my fiends in Denver paid membership to the place and the Off-road guys, feeling a bit sorry for the poor *******s, were nice enough to bulldoze a nice loop for the poor rally guys. Too bad that CORE is teetering on bankruptcy since the US economy was wrecked by Wall Street speculators and a lot of very silly people..And a lot of absurd people who blabbed about things they knew nothing of.

I said before, with some silly name and not even the courage to put a name and a location, your words, all of them, are useless.
I will not have an anonymous nobody tell me that I don't know the problems we're all facing here in USA now, especially since it has changed so much since I began with this sport.

So again, put up a name and a location, tell us what role you have in the sport so we see why we should listen to you.
Or STFU. :s mash:

Okay, I think you're taking things a little bit too seriously here. The idea of a rally in America was only ever fantasy on my part. As you yourself pointed out, this was only ever intended to be pub talk, and that is as far as this conversation is going.

Some Interesting arguments here.

The reason I tend to come back to the US is the following; when a sport is picked up, and commercialised in USA, things start to happen. Look to road cycling, off road cycling, soccer, and now rally cross.

The special thing in the US is that most sports that become big, have two elements in them. Most are happening in a small area where you as a spectator see it all, or they have a good way of producing on TV.

Rally has a challenge here. If you make it too compact, you are down to Mickey Mouse Mini Rally types events, so you need a larger area. As a spectator you do not see the cars much, and TV and Internet coverage have not kept up with time and technology.

If Rally is to succeed in the US, the key will be to start updating the tech side. Start using streaming, and have side by side video of drivers, split times, results, live tech data - as revs gearing, g- force, interviews and so on awailable online.

So the spectator can follow his or her preferred drivers live, and keep up to date with all types of results. Fewer and fewer are willing to walk for miles and see the cars for a few seconds, but miss out on the bigger picture.
All of this can of course be reached from mobile devices at the stages, or from home!

If FIA and RedBull start working in that direction, they will have a chance of winning the US, and winning larger crowds of fans in the rest of the world as well!!

Surely you have events to suit each market. So, if there was a US round, you would have a ultra compact fan friendly event. Isn't that common sense? People have been brainwashed by the 'one size fits all' WRC modern event. The time has come for each event to do what they want - and what suits each event.

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Originally Posted by Prisoner Monkeys

Okay, I think you're taking things a little bit too seriously here. The idea of a rally in America was only ever fantasy on my part. As you yourself pointed out, this was only ever intended to be pub talk, and that is as far as this conversation is going.

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Of course I take this seriously, whatever the ______ you are, my living depends on the heath of the sport since I manufacture things, it's just keyboard fapping to you--obviously. And as I said, the sport is suffering ---and therefore I am suffering---since in America, so many motorsport oriented tend to egomaniacs, and asocial, and apolitical and many are mistakenly thinking they are smarter than, just like you, people with decades more direct experience. So just like millions bought houses on credit that they couldn't afford, there have always been too many here that buy cars and pour money into making them into rally cars at rates they can't afford, tow rigs have to be the latest, and then they drop out after maybe 5 events over 2 years...

So brainless dream talk, I'm sick of it. Got it? Pie in the Sky---screw that, done it when there was twice the participation. Screw it. This gawddam country needs a firm foundation built, and always has.

It need the associated connections that happens with there is a diverse entry with 100-150 guys entering, not 15 like now.

It REMAINS on a level of about 2 clubs in any decent country because the idiot talk you've been doing done by dreamy eyed guys in garages all by themselves---or lied to by greedy and cynical business (lying to them that "the big time is just around the corner, spend LOTS now and you'll get a sponsorship from Subaru!!!) and arguing ---exactly like you've been doing.

IF this was a pub and some obviously completely ignorant ass___________ were to start fantasizing about some utterly and THEN start mouthing off with crap like " that makes me doubt the validity of EVERYTHING you said" and goes on and on NEVER ONCE adding a single morsel to indicate he knew ANYTHING, and never once acknowledging a single piece of the piles of info supplied, I think somebody would be real close to being a bit ruffled up. especialy the seat of their pant might be getting ruffled by a large shoe.


And you STILL have taken the cowardly course and not said who you are, where you are and just what you do in rally, and for that you're dropped right in the category of total keyboard hero.

John, although the conversation has gotten a little wayward, I understand what you're saying and you're absolutely correct.

The WRC is about the greatest drivers in the greatest events. And great events are developed ... you do not create them overnight.
Without a history and a strong infrastructure you will simply not develop the expertise required to run a specialised event at this level.

Rally NZ, as an example, benefits from an army of volunteers, filling roles from the lowly block marshall right up to the Clerk of Course, who have decades of learning and progression which they would not have achieved had the sport not been strong here.

In the events that I'm involved with, we invest hugely in sending our people to other events to both mentor and be mentored to ensure that when the pressure is on they perform their tasks instinctively. And there is no greater pressure than a WRC round.

That is why NZ rally officials are in such huge demand around the globe supporting, advising, mentoring other organisers.
If you shut the door on such events, opting for countries 'with the big markets', you remove the incentive for this progression and the expertise will be lost to detriment of the sport as a whole.

And don't think it will be substituted by people from the new territories. It won't. Those with the capacity to buy ... don't build.

If a country hasn't embraced the sport of rallying, at all of it's levels, they are not likely to consider the WRC highly when it arrives for a 3 day visit, and frankly, they don't deserve the opportunity.

There are still regular eastern US events that draw 45-60 cars. I'd say the Michigan/Minnesota/Missouri area is the best bet but then that's because those are the events where I can easily volunteer and regularly attend. Talk to the local organizers and their two biggest problems are working with local governments (particularly 100 Acre Wood which is spread across four counties and as many towns) and finding enough locals to be organizers next year. There's not much shortage of volunteers and there are a few hundred people that come in to spectate in addition to support crews. Like I said before accommodations would be the real problem with a WRC round at most US locations.

Brazil. They're in the news, they have the money, they should have the support and they have the rally area as Nobre has said