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I am with Bob on this. I question how your point can be argued with any certainty. Take, for instance, the right to life. How did this come about without someone — if not in government, then with some measure of authority — intervening to defend said right? There has to be some measure of intervention if rights are to be enforced.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
I am truley confused by Bob's post. He seems to argue that man is not born with any rights, and that government does not give you rights. He appears to be aruguing both sides, which I don't understand. Perhaps I'm reading his post wrong?Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
To your point ... We were endowed by our CREATOR with the rights of Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happyness. Are you really going to argue that the government has granted you your right to life? If so don't they have just as much power to determine that you no longer have said right, and just exterminate you? Is that seriously your argument?
Rights, any rights, come from the legal system one lives under, period. (I said governments have used an item, that does not exist, as the reason, or excuse, to exercise their authority to grant LEGAL rights.)Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
Show me any other source.
If you are going to use the term "god given" show me in the Bible where these are given.
"God given" is a talking point used long before that term was common.
What is a legal system one lives under if not the government?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Have you ever actually read the Bible? Ever hear of a little thing called the 10 Commandments? What do you think is the basis of law?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Labour were.are evil, and those that voted for them just self interest, so greedy and stupidQuote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
I did not see the latter part in what he said.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
I am a devout atheist. Therefore I am in total disagreement with you on this point, I'm afraid.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
I don't believe this statement should be restricted to the legal system under which one lives; those that came before, often long before, must also be considered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
That's fine. I don't really want to debate God here with you. But if you don't acknowledge some form of a Creator, where do you believe that your rights come from, particularly life? A government that can just as easily revoke your rights as they granted them?Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Good Lord man, have you?Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
The Ten Commandments are absolute laws, that deliberately breaking gives one an express ticket to hell.
"Thou shalt not" is not part of the U.S. Bill of Rights, but is part of the Ten Commandments.
Do you know the difference between a legal right, and a government's law's?
The Jews had no other official government till their constant pissing and moaning cauised God to decide to give them their King, which turned out to be a cluster-f, for the morons who thought a man would be better than their God.
The laws in the Bible, are the worst thing to use as a legal reason for rights, of any source.
Not concerning the rights one still has.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
They may be a continualtion of previous rights, or rights other governments have granted, but said same rights may be voided, legally by the government one lives under at the moment.
They are legal rights, and laws of the government one lives under determines what is legal and what is not.
That was/IS why in the U.S. States Rights are now such a point of contention concerning the Constitutional authority of the Federal Government vs States Rights as granted by the U.S. Constitution.