guns and their cost in lives and

The most obvious and glaring issues I see on this thread is the inability of many to accept the opinions of others.

That is fine when there is even the merest chance of getting a rational intelligent reply.

So far I find myself falling into the trap of sparring with people that don't read posts or selectively do and then decide that the best way to answer is to insult and denigrate.

Some are even so childish as to play games with a screename.

I am not on any "pedestal" as suggested. I studied my ass off for many years and spend many more in practice.

I always enjoyed good banter and really enjoyed the intelligent threads and

posts on the motor racing side.

Here I have spent a short time and all I get is insult or view insults from

certain members and they thankfully are few. What is most disconcerting is

the fact that knowledge of topics is very low among many and they will just

jump right in without thought or rational thinking on a topic.

I would prefer this thread be closed as all I see is aggressive, illmannered and

disruptive behavior.

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Originally Posted by Starter

And it was the people with guns and determination many years ago that made it possible for all to have their say today.

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OK, whose guns made it possible for the women to vote in 1920? The soldiers of WWI? Or for those failed to pay taxes in 1964 and and the 18 year olds in 1971? The soldiers of the Vietnam War? Maybe the Iraq war and the Afghanistan war should bring the right to vote in the US for the Iraqis and the Afghans, since decisions made by the US government severely affect their lives (and deaths). Well, the Vietnamese don't get to vote in the US either, but at least they got their way in their country in the end.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_..._United_States

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These extensions state that voting rights cannot be denied or abridged based on
The no religious test clause of the United States Constitution is found in Article VI, section 3.
"Race, color, or previous condition of servitude" (15th Amendment, 1870)
"On account of sex" (19th Amendment, 1920)
"By reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax" (24th Amendment, 1964)
"Who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of age" (26th Amendment, 1971).

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Originally Posted by Starter

So, Eki and others, I'd like to point out that you don't get a vote. It's the business of the folks over here to sort it out.

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That's fine by me. I'd just hope you'd let also people in other nations to sort their own internal affairs out by themselves and not invade them.

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Originally Posted by Starter

Although I've participated in this thread, I still find it amusing. All of those board members who are European trying to tell the Americans how to run their country. Considering that America has spent much money and blood pulling European bacon out of the fire for the last century or so.

So, Eki and others, I'd like to point out that you don't get a vote. It's the business of the folks over here to sort it out. We have lots of people who feel the way you do, but they are not in the majority. Not even close. The nice thing about being here is that those folks DO get to express their opinions and try and persuade people like me of the error of our ways. (Without success, at least as far as I'm concerned. :p ) And it was the people with guns and determination many years ago that made it possible for all to have their say today.

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Is it possible for you to ever write anything that is not absurd and non-factual? Ever?

What does the US walking in at the last 6 months of a 4 1/2 year war and taking part in just a few offensive operations have to do with "saving their bacon' in WWI?

And similarly in WWII after our allies had carried the hugest part of the actual shooting war for again 4 1/2 years, and already killed 3 1/2 million or so of the bad guys, we finally enage in operations 1/5 the size of what they had been doing for years---and continued to do to the very end, what does THAT myth you out as an insult have to do with the violent nature of US society---which is the subject that you seem to have forgotten...


Second, you say "And it was the people with guns and determination many years ago that made it possible for all to have their say today" as if it were a fact, but anybody with more than a 10 year iolds understanding of US hisory would know that it was men poring over DESKS, and fighting with words in Congress and later in COURTS of LAW which gave everybody in the country to right to FREE SPEECH, and indeed it is those with lots of guns who have always been willing to deprive people of their rights of Free Speech.

As horrible as it is, soldiers dying in the mud has not been where our political liberties and especially the supposed universal Civil Rights have come from or been assured. That is childish to suggest, not worthy of polite or adult discussion..

As horrible as it is to say it has been dissidents, and protesters on the streets and lawyers representing them in US Courts against men with guns---men who believe and repeat twaddle and who never THINK what they are doing or saying whop have established and protected our Constitutionally guaranteed Civil Rights.

Why do you never think and when shown the superficiality and the dangers of remaining steadfastly superficial, why do you never revise the endless clichés you try and insult people with?


If this is too long for you to hold a thought, we can break it down into simpler one line type questions...

What I want to know is why a supposed ''Moderator'' is doing insulting people with your insults in your first paragraph-----because it is an insult and a tuant and is intended to be insulting and taunting..

Very immoderate, Moderator.

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

Is it possible for you to ever write anything that is not absurd and non-factual? Ever?

What does the US walking in at the last 6 months of a 4 1/2 year war and taking part in just a few offensive operations have to do with "saving their bacon' in WWI?

And similarly in WWII after our allies had carried the hugest part of the actual shooting war for again 4 1/2 years, and already killed 3 1/2 million or so of the bad guys, we finally enage in operations 1/5 the size of what they had been doing for years---and continued to do to the very end, what does THAT myth you out as an insult have to do with the violent nature of US society---which is the subject that you seem to have forgotten...

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And may I add that Finland remained independent despite the US interference in Europe, not because of it. The Americans saved the bacon, canned it and gave it to the Soviets.

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Originally Posted by Eki

And may I add that Finland remained independent despite the US interference in Europe, not because of it. The Americans saved the bacon, canned it and gave it to the Soviets.

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I know!
and if you want to think who US Military supported, look to the interference up in Kola Peninsula and down the railway from Murmansk and Archangel in the struggling of BOTH Finland and Russia when they were trying to establish democratic governments: they supported autocracy, the absolutist regime of the Czar--and the stooges surrounding it---rather than helping millions secure the Rights that "we' brag about constantly.

How might world history been different if US Military supported democratic governments in Russia and Finland rather than supporting the Autocrats?

(by the way Eki, I have read hours and hours of personal histories of the "slobos" as your relatives called them and many times the soldiers recalled just how excited they were to get American canned goodies which were a real treat cause Red Army grub was pretty basic... so you aren't far from the truth!)

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

(by the way Eki, I have read hours and hours of personal histories of the "slobos" as your relatives called them and many times the soldiers recalled just how excited they were to get American canned goodies which were a real treat cause Red Army grub was pretty basic... so you aren't far from the truth!)

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Yes, Finnish war veterans have also told that sometimes they snatched food deliveries dropped from Soviet airplanes intended for Soviet troops and it was canned food with "made in the US" labels. They were somewhat annoyed that they were there supposed to be the last bastion of Western democracies against the Soviet Bolshevism and the US were feeding the Soviets. Anyways, it was good eating they said.

OH here we go back to the WWII forum

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Originally Posted by Roamy

OH here we go back to the WWII forum

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There were a lot of guns in the WWII, so it's not off topic.

No but the anti US rhetoric is.