New engine regs for 2013

travelling through the univers, womb, communist romania. I was kind of busy. Why, what happened then?

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Originally Posted by mstillhere

As a follow up to this topic, LdM recently gave a interview where he strongly disagrees with the introduction of a 4 cylinder engine in F1. LdM point is that for Ferrari it would be pointless getting involved in such venture since no Ferrari would be ever produced with a cylinder engine. Obviously LdM is looking for support among the other teams and he found on so far, and that would be Mercedes. I thing Haug's motivation would be the same as LdM's.
http://www.motorsport.com/news/artic...D=396838&FS=F1

I for one am against such a small engine. I know that F1 needs to adapt itself to the tough economical times but again a F1 car with a 4 cylinder engine....well it's not a F1 car. There are plenty of other series where racing teams can use those kind of engines. Forcing F1 cars to adopt a 4 cyl. engine is not F1. What's going to be next? A 3 cyl. engine car and then 2 and then 1 just in name of cutting down expenses and gas consumption? I see 3 probable endings:

1. A breakaway series.
2. No 4 cyl. engine F1 cars
3. No Ferrari, Mercedes and probably some other team.

I know some of you would love to see a F1 without Ferrari but remember, Ferrari will not disappear from the racing world. It would reappear somewhere else and they would take with them a share of the F1 public and revenue, that's why I am pretty confident we wont see any 4 cyl. engines in F1.

Certainly it would be interesting to see how things will unfold.

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Whilst I can see LdM's point its a bit undermined by the fact that Ferrari have run engines in F1 before that they would never have used in their roadcars, like small capacity V6's back in the 60s when Enzo refused to have anything on the road with less than a V12.

4 cylinder turbos have been in F1 before, IIRC BMW and perhaps Porsche both used them to win championships in the early 80's. People weren't complaining about them then, except perhaps that they were too powerful...

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Originally Posted by Dylan H

Whilst I can see LdM's point its a bit undermined by the fact that Ferrari have run engines in F1 before that they would never have used in their roadcars, like small capacity V6's back in the 60s when Enzo refused to have anything on the road with less than a V12.

4 cylinder turbos have been in F1 before, IIRC BMW and perhaps Porsche both used them to win championships in the early 80's. People weren't complaining about them then, except perhaps that they were too powerful...

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Since Mercedes is also against the 4 cylinder engines, I wonder what would happen to all the Mercedes powered teams if Mercedes were to retire from F1

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Originally Posted by mstillhere

Since Mercedes is also against the 4 cylinder engines, I wonder what would happen to all the Mercedes powered teams if Mercedes were to retire from F1

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The simple answer is that they'd get other engines, from Cosworth if nothing else was available.

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Originally Posted by mstillhere

Since Mercedes is also against the 4 cylinder engines, I wonder what would happen to all the Mercedes powered teams if Mercedes were to retire from F1

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They'll find another supplier like cosworth, or vw, Honda and Toyota who are rumoured to be making a comeback.

But Mercedes is unlikely to pull out. They stayed despite the credit crunch which was a far larger problem. The engine regs will annoy them but not put them off. The switch from v10 to v8 really angered them but they still stayed.

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Originally Posted by Dylan H

They'll find another supplier like cosworth, or vw, Honda and Toyota who are rumoured to be making a comeback.

But Mercedes is unlikely to pull out. They stayed despite the credit crunch which was a far larger problem. The engine regs will annoy them but not put them off. The switch from v10 to v8 really angered them but they still stayed.

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I really don't see that happening. The fact that F1 used to run on 4 cyl engines does not mean that the actual car makers have to go for it. Especially if the car market they operate with does not provide use for them.

Mercedes may choose to stay in F1 if it makes commercial sense for them otherwise I don't think we will see 4 cyl powered Benzs. Besides, why not stay with 6 or 8 cyl engines? I don't think it's that outrageous. Especially with all the regulations and limitations that all the F1 teams have to observe right now. How low should these budgets go?

I am not so sure the F1 circus can do without Mercedes and Ferrari. If they were to go, who would replace them?

In any case, only time will tell. We'll see what happens.

F1 engine manufacturers do gain new technologies from racing F1 engines, but I'm not sure that directly relevant to the number of cylinders an engine has.

Indeed, I would say that 4 cylinder engines are much more relevant to road car technology than 8, 10 or 12 cylinder engines are, given that the vast majority of cars on the road are powered by 4 cylinder engines.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mstillhere

I really don't see that happening. The fact that F1 used to run on 4 cyl engines does not mean that the actual car makers have to go for it. Especially if the car market they operate with does not provide use for them.

Mercedes may choose to stay in F1 if it makes commercial sense for them otherwise I don't think we will see 4 cyl powered Benzs. Besides, why not stay with 6 or 8 cyl engines? I don't think it's that outrageous. Especially with all the regulations and limitations that all the F1 teams have to observe right now. How low should these budgets go?

I am not so sure the F1 circus can do without Mercedes and Ferrari. If they were to go, who would replace them?

In any case, only time will tell. We'll see what happens.

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It's a case of the need to wake up and smell the N02. Whilst I do not see any particular hardship in the next decade, oil is a finite resource. From the plastic bags you collect your shopping in, to the fuel needed to transport the goods to the supermarket - oil is consumed.

Which do you suppose will ALWAYS be more economical - 4 or 8/10/12 cylinder motors?

NOw, how many people, globally, own and regularly use a fuel (oil) consuming vehicle?

If, by stipulating it's use in a sport and actively encourage the search for better economy via a sport, you can significantly reduce the global consumption, do you not think this is;

1. A good thing

&

2. Sensible?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mstillhere

I really don't see that happening. The fact that F1 used to run on 4 cyl engines does not mean that the actual car makers have to go for it. Especially if the car market they operate with does not provide use for them.

Mercedes may choose to stay in F1 if it makes commercial sense for them otherwise I don't think we will see 4 cyl powered Benzs. Besides, why not stay with 6 or 8 cyl engines? I don't think it's that outrageous. Especially with all the regulations and limitations that all the F1 teams have to observe right now. How low should these budgets go?

I am not so sure the F1 circus can do without Mercedes and Ferrari. If they were to go, who would replace them?

In any case, only time will tell. We'll see what happens.

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I'm not sure whether you're aware that Mercedes is downsizing all its engines including for AMG, reducing capacity left right and centre and slapping turbochargers on them to improve efficiency.

There are plenty of turbo 4-cylinder Mercedes already available, in fact I don't think you can get an A or B-class without one.

The new engine regs for F1 are exactly in line with what Mercedes is doing anyway with their roadcars.

BTW Ferrari aren't going to pull out of F1 just because of some engine regs change, I think you're vastly overestimating the importance of these changes. F1 might need Ferrari but Ferrari needs F1 even more.

Maybe playing devils' advocate a bit as I'll be sad to see the demise of multi-cylinder engines, but Ferrari's first WDC was won with a 4-cylinder engine...