I'd bet that the Taliban and their supporters think they're are good and the foreign troops in their country are bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
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I'd bet that the Taliban and their supporters think they're are good and the foreign troops in their country are bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
some comments about a possible charge of Julian Assange:
N.Y. Times:
U.S. Weighs Prosecution of WikiLeaks Founder, but Legal Scholars Warn of Steep Hurdles,
further down in thew article it says that if JA is charged it might lead to that media (like the N.Y. Times) that have published the information also have to be charged for publishing leaked information.Quote:
Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. has confirmed that the Justice Department is examining whether Mr. Assange could be charged with a crime, but legal scholars say that such an effort would encounter steep legal and policy difficulties.
Reuters:
Analysis: Hard case for U.S. against WikiLeaks's Assange
Quote:
(Reuters) - U.S. authorities could face insurmountable legal hurdles if they try to bring criminal charges against elusive WikiLeaks chief Julian Assange, even if he sets foot on U.S. soil.
New York Law School:
http://www.lasisblog.com/2010/11/12/...tted-no-crime/
Quote:
Since August, when Wikileaks first published 91,000 classified documents relating to the Afghanistan War, and in October, when they published approximately 400,000 more relating to the War in Iraq,
many conservative commentators have been clamoring for the Justice Department to prosecute Wikileaks for publishing classified information.
But in the United States, generally publishing classified information is not a crime. The sort of information that a news organization can be prosecuted for publishing is limited to:
nuclear secrets (Atomic Energy Act), the identities of covert agents (Intelligence Identities Protection Act), and certain forms of communications intelligence (Section 798 of the Espionage Act).
Thomas Jefferson the third President of the United States of America, a principal author of the Declaration of Independence , and one of the most influential Founding Fathers for his promotion of the ideals of republicanism in the United States said:
Quote:
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty"
Quote:
“Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day.”
I’m guessing he would not be as welcomed in today’s United States of America with such views.Quote:
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.”
i think this quotes show that the world really have changed that much the past 200 years.
No..he would have..because he also understood the basic tenets of the Constitution were good, and didn't require this myth that it must evolve.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooper_S
Most of the hard core people on the right in the US take great care to ask for the Constitution to be respected. Most of the changes to US governence have meant more government, not less, and Jefferson was of the opinion a bare minimum of government is also a tenet of good governence.
That said, on this Wikileaks thing, I think it is a lot of noise, but not much of subtance. It is however just a slimy, crappy thing to do.....
When it puts people in danger for some self proclaimed "noble" goal, that is when I get pi$$ed....
There is an effort on my part to entertain and inform you Ben, although it seems I rarely convince you!Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Eki's points are valid, except again for the reality that he always defends people who despise his way of life, his right to speak his mind and have no respect for the values HE holds dear. That has always made me scratch my head....
Every post by this guy is an insult. Great< you read the post. Now give an articulate answer. There is quite a lot in there to challenge ,if you can.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
What people are in danger?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
The people in USA? yes because of their politicians behaviour but not because of leaked information about the abysmal behaviour of US/nato forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Mr Assange? yes most certainly. Especially since high politicians in Canada and USA wants to see him dead. Several politicians have siad that Julian Assange should be executed.
Reactions like we've seen from US, Canada, Australia and the USA's 51st state Sweden is because they are afraid that the their lies and frauds will be revealed, they are afraid that they cannot "control" the information (=propaganda). The politicians are afraid that their corruption will be brought to surface.
The same people that excuses the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan with "we are there to convert them to "democracies" (=puppet states) are now attacking the right of free speech just because it might harm their credibility.
Imo its the obligation of people to reveal crimes committed by politicians and military forces. Just because they are politicians doesn't mean that they are untouchable.
And finally as i wrote in one of my previous posts. According to US laws Julian Assange and WL have not done anything illegal by publishing the leaked information.
It's a shame they did not put as much energy into the of outing Valerie Plame as they are with these Wikileaks.
The danger of her being made a public figure was far greater than what has so far been exposed through this Assange(sic) guy.
Another issue I would like to address is the comments about these "tin pot" or something governments in South America. South America is developing rapidly through co-operation from other countries. No need for leaks there.
The biggest leak they ever had was Milton Friedman and his "vision" that was nothing more than smoke and mirrors and the Ollie , Ronnie boy that destroyed Nicaragua by supplying arms ("we did not supply arms") to the Contras and any other despot in the region.
In this recent release, no one is in danger, but Wikileaks in the past was putting up information on how the NATO coalition was dealing with IED's and locations of their troops. You don't think the Taliban didn't get some use out of that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostwalker
As for Assange, no one in government in the US or Canada is seriously advocating his assasination. The fact they are spouting off this way says to me it isn't an option and it is frustration and glibness. No one officially in the employ of the Canadian Government has advocated this even in jest. We don't have the death penalty. Even the political right in this country is measured in their response to what has been released. There is nothing released that is really harmful to Canada. I suggest you discern the difference between US foreign policy and Canada's. They are different....Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostwalker
Free speech is one thing, taking conversations that are merely cables of communication between two people conversing at the diplomatic level may sound like good sport, and it is amusing, but if the conversation is being held with the understanding it is a "secret" and "private" conversation protected by government law (yes, it is lawful for secrets to be kept on what people REALLY think of other nations when they are in the diplomatic service), then outing it means someone has decided they are the judge and jury. Last I looked, the leaker wasn't given this power by law, he took it upon himself. So he is going to go to jail, and funny, I don't see Julian Assange paying his legal bill. Julian is making money and "prestige" off someone else going to jail.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostwalker
Crimes? Half of what is there is nonsense. What the US Embassy thinks of Canadian culture was some of the stuff relasesed. I read it, and went Duuuuh....like no kidding the CBC doesn't portray America in a good light. That said, it was a private conversation between diplomats that is protected. The principle of diplomatic channels to communicate in private is a legal protection all nation states pay respect to. IF caught spying on another nations diplomats, spys know they are going to be prosecuted. It is just that simple. Assange didn't break the laws? Ya..he did. You can say it is wrong or whatever, but if you print classified information, you likely are in violation of the law. Whether or not the law prosecutes you is another thing. The guy who basically took all this diplomatic traffic wasn't doing it for noble purposes, he was a misfit who is going to see 50 years in jail. I doubt Julian Assange is going to help this chap...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostwalker
Assange is a leech on the freedoms he proposes to protect. He isn't releasing anything in this last release that is anything but embarassing but much ado really about nothing. That said, he is a slime ball of the first order, because his noterity and high minded rhetoric is built on people who are either misguided or just criminal themselves giving him information. I don't see him as noble at all....and what is more, if he had such dirt on the slime balls who run many other countries such as China, Russia or wherever, he would be worm food by now. It is why he picks on the West...because he knows THEY have laws and due process.
He is a coward...pure and simple.