lets compare in the "big leagues", Cup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Roy
How many Championships? :p :
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lets compare in the "big leagues", Cup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Roy
How many Championships? :p :
Those are the big leauge stats if I'm not mistaken. Neither has any championships in Cup obviously. Funny thing is there has only been different champs in cup going back 15 years. Take out the one off's of by Kurt Busch an Kenseth and you bascically have to be Labonte, Gordon, Stewart, or Johnson. To me, not having won a championship at 6 years in is no insult to Kyle. He has many years ahead of him to win championships and they may not be that far away. Bottom line is he's not a likable guy, but he's probably one of the 3 most "talented" drivers out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by muggle not
sorry but the Nationwide no longer counts, the series died in 2005 where the Cup guys would only race like 17 events max.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Roy
so Harvick has 1 championship to 0 over Busch, as even though Harv was the first guy to to the double, it wasnt by choice, and that one was actually harder considering the tracks they used to race at in 01.
Harv: starts:217 wins:33 poles:26 top 5:119 top 10:164 DNF:7 avefinish: 9.5 avestart: 8.6
Kyle: starts:186 wins:36 poles:22 top 5:91 top 10:116 DNF:24 avefinish:12.6 avestart:8.9
sorry but Harvick has got Busch covered in stats as well in the Nationwide, along with 2 championships to 1, and that one by Kyle, he really only race 2 guys all year in Edwards and Brad K.
I'm sorry Harv but I don't think I'm following your logic. You're saying that because Kyle came along after Harvick, his stats in Nationwide don't count the same as before 2005? Maybe I'm misinterpreting your statements. If you ask me, they are both punks. Always have been, probably both always will be. The biggest difference in the two is that Kyle probably has more potential and I think most people would agree is the more talented. But again, he is an easy punk to hate, I'll give you that.Quote:
Originally Posted by harvick#1
no I'm saying is when the 2006 season started, thats when the "double-duty" drivers began. Truex was the last true champion in this series as it was a stepping stone into the Cup series.Quote:
Originally Posted by TURN3
Nascar really hurt this series when they let the Cup guys race a full season in AAA, its pathetic, I know in this day and age, tickets sell for the cup drivers, but the stand-alone races are normally better as you see the young guys fight for a respected win in which they have a few shots at
Brace yourself Turn3 but I am going to have to agree with you on this one. While Harvick is a great driver, I do believe Kyle Busch is better overall. The kid can race in anything. I will have to give the nod to Kyle in this one and I like Kyle Busch too. ;)
Sorry, all the rest of that stuff is BS.Quote:
Originally Posted by harvick#1
I know I've done this before, but I guess in light of the recent discussion it is time to drag out the updated stats, Head to Head (which is the only true measure of how 2 drivers compare).
Kevin Harvick and Kyle Busch have faced each other a staggering 370 races across all three of the top Nascar national series. I say staggering because of how young Kyle still is, and Harvick has faced only 1 other driver more times than that and that would be Greg Biffle (507 races)
Head to ahead across all 370 races Harvick wins 188-182. That means that Harvick finished ahead of Busch 188 times and Busch finished ahead of Harvick 182.
Stat line:
Busch: 50 wins, 146 t5's, 199 t10's, 11.6 avg finish*
Harvick: 33 wins, 132 t5's, 211 t10's, 9.4 avg finish*
* the total avg finish is not 100% accurate as it is really the avg finish of the top 3 series added together and divided by 3, but for comparison purposes it works because we are comparing apples to apples. The avg finish in each series is accurate, of course.
Those 370 races break down as follows:
Sprint Cup: 203
Head to Head: Busch wins 106-97
Stat line:
Busch: 18 wins, 61 t5's, 94 t10's 15.9 avg finish
Harvick: 8 wins, 41 t5's, 85 t10's, 15.3 avg finish
Nationwide Series: 150 races
Head to Head: Harvick wins 83-67
Stat line:
Busch: 28 wins, 73 t5's, 93 t10's, avg finish 12.1
Harvick: 20 wins, 77 t5's, 111 t10's, avg finish 8.1
Camping World Truck Series: 17 races
Head to Head: Busch wins 9-8
Stat Line:
Busch: 4 wins, 12 t5's, 12 t10's, 6.9 avg finish
Harvick: 5 wins, 14 t5's, 15 t10's, 4.9 avg finish :eek:
Harv has the edge in Championships, 2-1 (all Nationwide Series)
Harv has the edge in Marquee events won: 2007 Daytona 500, 2003 Brickyard 400, 2007 All-Star race, and 2 Budweiser Shootouts.
I'll throw Kyle a bone and say he does have the 2008 Southern 500 (even though the race wasn't called the Southern 500 when it was run, it appears that it is being considered that for statistical purposes and if so, Kyle desrves to be recognized for it. If not that, then he has won none of the "marquee" events in Nascar.
Neither driver has won he Coke 600, yet....
AS for Sprint Cup series points, counting the 6 races that Kyle ran in 2004,
Harvick has the edge in points scored (including Chase bonuses):29,810-29,389, or a 421 point edge.
What get's the big :eek: is the 83 wins combined out of 370 races competed in, and how many more would there have been, especially in the Cup Series, had nascar not banned testing at a time one 1 team (the 48) had pretty much a stranglehold on what it takes to make the cot run well? All I can say I can say is WOW.....
Both drivers are extremely talented. Both drivers have won on every type of track NASCAR runs on. Busch has the edge in the take no prisoners, nuke 'em all, win or bring back the steering wheel trying mentality, whereas Harvick has the edge in making sure his car gets the finish it deserves. He takes a 10th place car and gets a 10th place finish out of it. If he finshes in the mid 20's in a given race, then thats all the car had in it. His 15 DNF's in the cup series are incredible, and he has completed more laps in the Cup Series since 2001 than any other driver, even more impressive when his automatic 700 lap deficit is factored in (he did not compete in the 2001 Daytona 500, obviously, and was suspended for the 2002 spring Martinsville race).
Harvick is starting to remind me of Bobby Labonte during the late 90's through 2000. People forget, but he was the original "Mr Where did HE come from?" of the current generation of drivers. He would ride around all day in 8th-12th place, then when the pay window opened he was running at or near the front.
Harvick, especially in plate races, has become that person.
Kyle Busch is reminding me more and more of DW everyday, and if history is any indication, then he will get his Cup Championships soon enough.
Sorry Harv, I have to disagree with you there. Of the 2 Nationwide Championships Kevin won, 2006 is the most impressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by harvick#1
In 2001, Kevin had the car to beat. Not one of the best cars, but the best car by a wide margin. That #2 RCR AC/Delco team was the 48 of its time, no bdy else had equioment that could come close.
In 2006 Harvick handicapped himself with driving his own stuff part of the time and won 9 races, and had 32 of 35 top 10 finishes. Back in 06, his KHI stuff was not anywhere near as competitive as the RCR 21 car he was driving most of the year, and he DESTROYED the rest of the field. Imagine how bad the beatdown would have been if he had driven the 21 in all 35 races...as it was he won by 824 points over another cup driver in cup level equipment, the following years Champion, Carl Edwards. 1000 points and 12-15 wins would not have been out of the realm of possibilty.
Very good analysis slory.