Toyota quits F1 *confirmed*

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Originally Posted by truefan72

I completely agree with Ferrari's comments

this is Mosley's legacy, another 5-6 years of F1 going to the dogs, before all remnants of his FIA involvements are gone. Then perhaps manufacturers and proper teams will consider returning to a stable sport without the lunacy of an out of control president. As of right now, all these new entrants are poor excusef for teams that only managed tog et inot the sport through mosleys assitance and artificial policies. none of these teams are competnet or worthy of an F1 place IMO.

As to Brawn. lets get Real, Brawn GP in 2009 was Honda under a different name. Honda invested a sizable amount of money developing that car for a year and continued financial assistance to that team for part of the year.. They also sold the team for $1 to brawn, and maintained their grid spot without Brawn GP having to pay the massive entrance fee normally required. Furthermore they used suspect parts on their car (only deemed legal so Mosley could fracture FOTA) which subsequently gave them a huge advantage, allowing them to coast to WDC and WCC victory.

The constant rule changes, the gray areas, the pettiness of mosley and the FIA, the ridiculous fees and sheer banality of the way F1 is regulated and the unnecessary scandals had made F1 a toxic element to manufacturers.

hope Mosley is happy.

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I do not agree with your comments about Brawn. Barrichello mentioned that the atmosphere in the smaller team is better, not to mention that Ross used Mercedes engines. About the grey area, it is good for F1 teams to be smart and need I remind you that Williams and Toyota also benefited from this, however, they were unable to stay in front of RBR, Ferrari and McLaren-Mercedes. However I agree that the constant rule changes are not good for the sport and hopefully after 2010 at least for 10 years there will be no more changes. About the quality of new teams, let's wait to see what happens. They might be good, if not, people will start cheering for the underdogs again :)

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Originally Posted by scaliwag

It gives me no pleasure in writing this, however I've warned the forum on many occasions that manufacturers are not the life blood of F1 they could well be it's death knell, and as usual I've been ridiculed and once or twice abused for my views, however I stick to my guns

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I have always thought that to be a very sensible view, and not just in relation to F1, but other forms of motorsport too.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I have always thought that to be a very sensible view, and not just in relation to F1, but other forms of motorsport too.

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Yes but you claim that the BTCC is going gangbusters at the moment so I really do have to disagree.

Yeah it's nice to see independants but the real heart of top level motorsport is factory teams. I think it's possibly less important in F1 because they don't actually race anything even remotely close to a production car but manufacturers do make motorsport more popular and when the regs are done they don't always ruin it.

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Originally Posted by truefan72

I completely agree with Ferrari's comments

this is Mosley's legacy, another 5-6 years of F1 going to the dogs, before all remnants of his FIA involvements are gone. Then perhaps manufacturers and proper teams will consider returning to a stable sport without the lunacy of an out of control president. As of right now, all these new entrants are poor excusef for teams that only managed tog et inot the sport through mosleys assitance and artificial policies. none of these teams are competnet or worthy of an F1 place IMO.

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Did you forget? The entire world is currently in a recession. The recent withdrawal of Manufacturers is bigger than the shenanigans made by FIA, Mad Max or FOTA.

Formula 1 and EVERY other racing series in the world (NASCAR, WRC, IRL, etc) is going through a downward phase right now. When a global economic crisis hits, manufacturers will reduce or drop their participation in a racing series.

All of the major auto manufacturers in the world have problems right now and they've been losing billions every year. Their number 1 priority is make sure they survive, while continuing to sell automobiles & keeping workers employed. Whether you like it or not, F1 is a tiny piece of their marketing mix and operations. After all, it is just a glitzy sideshow.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Yes but you claim that the BTCC is going gangbusters at the moment so I really do have to disagree.

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Nice to see the usual record has remained stuck during your absence.

In fact it is exactly the BTCC I was thinking of, because having 10 manufacturers involved in 1994 might have seemed excellent, but was clearly unsustainable. When some of those manufacturers go without success for any length of time, or if it doesn't suit their marketing strategies, they will pull out. Same in the WRC, same in F1. There is no point their being involved any more. At present, Toyota will clearly not become involved in any branch of motorsport once they leave F1. What would be the point?

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I think it's possibly less important in F1 because they don't actually race anything even remotely close to a production car but manufacturers do make motorsport more popular and when the regs are done they don't always ruin it.

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If they didn't think there were benefits to be derived from being in F1, they wouldn't be there. I think these things are so nebulous as to be impossible to define, but I'm not a marketing man, nor a corporate strategist. It is my belief that participation in F1 can probably never be truly justified in the sense of a correlation between investment in F1 and cars sold as a result.

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Originally Posted by F1boat

Interesting that they fail to mention Brawn GP which won more victories, not to mention titles, than Honda, BMW and Toyota put together.

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And all that with more Honda money than any team ever invested in one season.

The conclusion being that manufacturer money and backing is what got Brawn their success. So what exactly should Brawn GP's case prove?

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Originally Posted by DexDexter

Sad day for F1, good day for Sauber and Mr. Theissen who now probably doesn't have to get involved with touring cars or whatever...

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Not necessarily - Toyota still have a place on next years grid as they signed concorde.

They could sell - lock stock - and still leave Mario and his band up the over engineered creek sans rowing instrument. Dave Richards could have a nice easy way into F1......

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Originally Posted by truefan72

I wonder if Aguri could come to some sort of arrangement with the toyota folks. would be nice

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I hope that Sauber will take up the place left open by Toyota as they are worth it even though Williams are trying to block them out of obvious personal grudge.

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Originally Posted by F1boat

Although Ferrari blames Max.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80013

"In reality the steady trickle of desertion is more the result of a war against the big car manufacturers by those who managed the sport, than the effects of the economical that affected Formula 1 over the last years," it read.

There is also another quite nasty remark.
""Formula 1 continues losing important parts: over the last 12 months Honda, BMW, Bridgestone and this morning Toyota announced their retirements. In exchange, if one could call it that, Manor, Lotus [because of the team of Colin Chapman, Jim Clark and Ayrton Senna, to name a few, there is hardly more than the name], USF1 and Campos Meta arrived."

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or, in the words of Marie Antionette... "Bread? Then, let them eat cake."

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Originally Posted by ioan

And all that with more Honda money than any team ever invested in one season.

The conclusion being that manufacturer money and backing is what got Brawn their success. So what exactly should Brawn GP's case prove?

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Manu money and wonderful Mercedes engine, but no factory team. :)